172 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Another question to ask is how many reapers could reach the Milky Way? If at the end of the 50,000 year cycle they are running low on resources, they may have to eat some of their fellow reapers to gain resources for the journey or send a smaller expeditionary force to gain control and open the citadel relay as opposed to attacking en masse.

Even with a numerical reduction it looks like Bio is going to have to seriously nerf them from their ME status, or pull a major deus ex machina, to give the denizens of the galaxy a chance of fighting back.

You know, that's a very good point if they are forced to take the long way around. Like Napolean's Russia campaign, far more lost through attrition than battle.

I don't think it would be too much of a deus ex machina. If the Reapers don't evolve except between cycles then there has been at least 2 years in which to come up with new weapons and defences from gathered data. We see a bit of that in ME2 with how effective an SR2 is vs the SR1.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 01:46 .

[Tennessee88]

This is all based upon the belief that the reaping exists as a necessary act to sustain their species. Just like we have to have food, water, and shelter. I think that is a tad bit simplistic since everything we have heard from them suggest the purpose is salvation.

[Biotic_Warlock]

From what i saw at the end of ME2.



A lot.



Minus sovereign and the terminator.

[Tennessee88]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

From what i saw at the end of ME2.

A lot.

Minus sovereign and the terminator.

What are you referencing with "A lot."

[Biotic_Warlock]

Tennessee88 wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

From what i saw at the end of ME2.

A lot.

Minus sovereign and the terminator.

What are you referencing with "A lot."

ISnt there that little bit where they show a lot of reaper ships flying towards the universe?
Just after the suicide mission.
Though i could be imagining things.

[Tennessee88]

Oh sorry I forgot the original question for the thread... Apologies.

[Pro_Consul]

Lord Phoebus wrote...

Another question to ask is how many reapers could reach the Milky Way? If at the end of the 50,000 year cycle they are running low on resources, they may have to eat some of their fellow reapers to gain resources for the journey or send a smaller expeditionary force to gain control and open the citadel relay as opposed to attacking en masse.

But the Reapers are masters of contingency planning. They have backup plans for the contingency plan for their Plan E. In this case, the specific contingency plan I refer to is their in-flight refueling method. And there is proof! Attend:



Notice the lighted spot at figure A. Computer assisted analysis under extreme magnification reveals that this is a Fly-Through Starbucks franchise outlet, apparently doing a brisk business at the moment based on the nearby clustering (either that or it's barristas are very slow). In the upper right, however (figure B.), we see a Reaper that recently used the fly-through lane at one of their Taco Bell franchises. Unfortunately for it, outgassing is a frequent side effect of that particular type of in-flight refueling, which is why the nearest Reapers have altered course to allow for a distinctly noticeable no-fly zone around it. The reason for the Reapers' intense interest in humanity out of all the races in the galaxy is now understood at last, and as it turns out Shepard is NOT the center of their universe. Our mastery of rapid-service drive thru technology has drawn the attention of those much greater than ourselves.

[Blackbelt749]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Blackbelt749 wrote...

We don't know for sure that they failed once. That was EDI's speculation. That doesn't mean for a fact that it happened.

We know they failed to make a Protheran Reaper for whatever reason. Even if they intended to use the Protheans in that way from the start, it's still once one less Reaper.

How do we know they failed?

"It is logical to assume..." That's how EDI began the sentence. We don't know for certain that they failed to create a Prothean Reaper. (I know what you're saying, and I'm just arguing semantics.)

Perhaps they did fail. Perhaps not. Perhaps Harbinger is that Prothean reaper. Maybe that's why he can assume control of the drones so easily and release them once they die, with what appears to be little to no effect on him, since he can do grab control of another drone within minutes of one being killed.

Whatever the case, one less Reaper or not, with numbers like they showed in the ending cinematic, I think that there will be a lot, and I mean A LOT of dead sentient beings in the galaxy before/if they are defeated.

[AkiKishi]

Blackbelt749 wrote...

How do we know they failed?

"It is logical to assume..." That's how EDI began the sentence. We don't know for certain that they failed to create a Prothean Reaper. (I know what you're saying, and I'm just arguing semantics.)

Perhaps they did fail. Perhaps not. Perhaps Harbinger is that Prothean reaper. Maybe that's why he can assume control of the drones so easily and release them once they die, with what appears to be little to no effect on him, since he can do grab control of another drone within minutes of one being killed.

Whatever the case, one less Reaper or not, with numbers like they showed in the ending cinematic, I think that there will be a lot, and I mean A LOT of dead sentient beings in the galaxy before/if they are defeated.

Well if it was not a really good fight it would make the trilogy a bit pointless. Though I'm still not ruling out a "War of the Worlds" ending. But maybe that's just dejavu seeing them in London.

[arc00ta]

I would suspect there are more than 740, given the size of the reapers, the progress made on the human-reaper with only 100,000 or so colonists, and supplanting the genetic material with metal structures for the majority of the ship. Just based on numbers, a total extinction of advanced organic life would net billions upon billions of creatures to use as building material, even if only 1% were processed to become reapers there would be many more built than one per cycle. I would take Sovereigns statement about numbers darkening the skies literally, there are probably tens of thousands of them if not more. All that means is it sucks to be us.

[Darth Death]

Enough to wipe out all life in the galaxy...

[vanslyke85]

arc00ta wrote...

I would suspect there are more than 740, given the size of the reapers, the progress made on the human-reaper with only 100,000 or so colonists, and supplanting the genetic material with metal structures for the majority of the ship. Just based on numbers, a total extinction of advanced organic life would net billions upon billions of creatures to use as building material, even if only 1% were processed to become reapers there would be many more built than one per cycle. I would take Sovereigns statement about numbers darkening the skies literally, there are probably tens of thousands of them if not more. All that means is it sucks to be us.

Exactly.  There has to be at least 150,000.  I'm convinced there's probably more like 500,000

[AkiKishi]

arc00ta wrote...

I would suspect there are more than 740, given the size of the reapers, the progress made on the human-reaper with only 100,000 or so colonists, and supplanting the genetic material with metal structures for the majority of the ship. Just based on numbers, a total extinction of advanced organic life would net billions upon billions of creatures to use as building material, even if only 1% were processed to become reapers there would be many more built than one per cycle. I would take Sovereigns statement about numbers darkening the skies literally, there are probably tens of thousands of them if not more. All that means is it sucks to be us.

That was just a proto Reaper. We don't really know how many organics make up a Reaper or whether the number of organics turned into a goo has any bearing on the Reapers powerlevel, or other functions.

If you have ever seen V it only takes one ship to darken the sky 740 could do it easily, as long as it's one system at a time. Which fits with Reaper tactics.

The most compelling "evidence" that there are less than 1000 Reapers is the tactics they use. If there were 100.000 or even 10.000 there is little need for the subterfuge involving the Citadel. And we know that has been a key to Reaper tactics from the start.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 08:17 .

[Pro_Consul]

Blackbelt749 wrote...

Perhaps Harbinger is that Prothean reaper. Maybe that's why he can assume control of the drones so easily...

Just nitpicking here, but Sov was able to do this with a DEAD Saren, and it just required some implants having been preplaced within his body. And we can be pretty sure that Sov was not a Turian Reaper. But the rest of your point is definitely worth considering.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 09 février 2011 - 08:17 .

[AkiKishi]

Blackbelt749 wrote...

Perhaps they did fail. Perhaps not. Perhaps Harbinger is that Prothean reaper. Maybe that's why he can assume control of the drones so easily and release them once they die, with what appears to be little to no effect on him, since he can do grab control of another drone within minutes of one being killed.

Mordin tells you how it's done. The Reapers replaced the organic parts with tech parts. It's no different to what Sovereign did, although Harbinger seems to be more adept at it.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 08:19 .

[Pro_Consul]

And the number of Reapers could be even lower than we think. If the Reapers only pick races to goo-ify into Reapers based on worthiness or genetic compatability, it could very well be that 95% of the races which have so far been reaped were unworthy/incompatible.

[ZLurps]

My guess is that 740 could be close. I think number of Reapers is most likely less than more than that because larger the Reaper fleet gets, bigger Deus Ex device is needed from writers. 

Tennessee88 wrote...

..snip.. Also look at the technology we have observed so far. Beyond Sovereign's brute force, everything they use is based upon the perversion of that which already exists. In fact it appears as if they do not produce anything directly. There is nothing cultured or without utilitarian value (their utility being reaping) that can be witnessed in the Reapers. No Art, no hints of any thoughts beyond achievement of the cycle, its almost as if they have reverted back to a primal state. 

That is a good point. I have thought about lack of land forces and that we don't know if Reapers are capable for orbital bombing with their own technology. Then indoctrination, only way I can see Reaper being able to produce indoctrination device on their own is that they grow it inside Reaper hull... even then how they get materials required for device?

I guess they need indoctrinated slaves not only as cannon fodder and infiltrators/saboteurs but also as labour. It takes bit more than few husks when going against military platoon. So Reapers may need to put up manufacturing plants, even more so if Reaper vessels aren't capable of orbital bombing. They are also going to need materials. Doing all these things takes time. Reapers are likely horrifyingly effective but still, Prothean genocide took centuries from them.

I think it is possible that Reapers really aren't very adaptive to different situations and always rely on taking control of relay network. That would give them time they need.
Disconnecting enemies from ME relays doesn't only prevent enemy fleets from moving, but also disconnects every civilisation from information network. Turian Thanix cannon technology doesn't help Asari if there is no way to get information of that technology to them so they could use it in their ships or orbital defense platforms, whatever. Even everyone had Thanix technology how they would be able to compose fleet without FTL communications?

It might be that Reapers aren't capable for very creative thinking and that could be their achilles heel in ME3.

[Iwillbeback]

They have been around longer than 37 million years
Sovereign wouldn't say we can't comprehend 740 cycles.
I think it is closer to 20000 cycles.
So i guess it would be 12 million - 6 million reapers.

Modifié par Iwillbeback, 09 février 2011 - 08:34 .

[Omnicrat]

Mesina2 wrote...

Sovereign claimed there's legion of them so around 1000.

That refers to the multiple AIs inside Sovereign that interact to from the greater consiousness.

[Omnicrat]

Blackbelt749 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

I'd guess the low thousands, maybe somewhere between 2000 and 4000. OP, what did you do? Divide 37mil by 50K and figure one new Reaper per cycle? Logical, I guess, if you did.

Pretty much. Although we know they failed once, they likely failed a few more times as well in 37 million years.

We don't know for sure that they failed once. That was EDI's speculation. That doesn't mean for a fact that it happened.

Wait.  In what dialoge does EDI say that the Reapers failed befor?

[Omnicrat]

Iwillbeback wrote...

They have been around longer than 37 million years
Sovereign wouldn't say we can't comprehend 740 cycles.
I think it is closer to 20000 cycles.
So i guess it would be 12 million - 6 million reapers.

I've noticed this mistake alot here.

Reaper Cycle =/= 50k

The time between cycles lasts as long as it takes one species to find the cidadel and use it for afew centuries.

The Rachni wars were the first back-up plan the Reapers tried to re-take the cidadel.  This was afew centuries after the Asari discoved the Cidadel in the first place.  This means that the Reapers had already tried to activate the Cidadel, failed, and launched back-up plan A.

If they used fixxed time-intervals, they risked a new race discovering the cidadel only 1,000 years after the last cycle and having 49,000 years to evolve and advance.  This would be stupid.

[Pro_Consul]

Omnicrat wrote...

Reaper Cycle =/= 50k

The time between cycles lasts as long as it takes one species to find the cidadel and use it for afew centuries.

I can't speak for others, but for myself I already knew this. In my postings here I used an assumption that cycles were approximately 50K just as a matter of extrapolation from the only known cycle interval. Is it poor statistical practice to extrapolate from only one sample? You bet! But I never claimed to be good at statistics, either.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 09 février 2011 - 10:07 .

[vanslyke85]

"Our numbers will darken the sky"



This could be taken in 2 ways.

1. Literally - there is actually that many reapers

2. Figuratively - their collective minds inside the reaper forms. the amount of species that have been harvested and transformed into more reapers could darken the sky.

[SajPl]

I hope that there are around 300-500 reapers - since they are big that number is enough to darken the sky and if there would be like 50 000 of them then let's be honest, the organic racec would stand no chance against them without some newly introduced weapon of annihilation and that seems just stupid to me.



Besides the genocide of the galaxy takes hundreds of years (as Vigil said) so I gues if there were hundreds of thousands of them it would be way faster.

[Rafe34]

SajPl wrote...

I hope that there are around 300-500 reapers - since they are big that number is enough to darken the sky and if there would be like 50 000 of them then let's be honest, the organic racec would stand no chance against them without some newly introduced weapon of annihilation and that seems just stupid to me.

Besides the genocide of the galaxy takes hundreds of years (as Vigil said) so I gues if there were hundreds of thousands of them it would be way faster.

The galaxy is a big place.

What we need is something like the genophage, only set up to kill beings, and Reapers at that.