317 réponses à ce sujet

[PrinceOfFallout13]

FellOpenIan wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...
yes lets judge a fanbase based on that

That was but one of the thousands upon thousands of similar videos which I selected completely at random.

The abhorrent behavior and amount of epithets are most certainly not exclusive to that audience but they are most certainly systemic and ingrained within it.

most of them are like that but every person i played halo reach with were nice and really some of the most cool people to play with they loved the armor thing and leveling up so its not inconcivable to see why bioware wants that cake

[Drasill]

CoD is absolutely terrible though....

[Saphara]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

FellOpenIan wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...
yes lets judge a fanbase based on that

That was but one of the thousands upon thousands of similar videos which I selected completely at random.

The abhorrent behavior and amount of epithets are most certainly not exclusive to that audience but they are most certainly systemic and ingrained within it.

most of them are like that but every person i played halo reach with were nice and really some of the most cool people to play with they loved the armor thing and leveling up so its not inconcivable to see why bioware wants that cake

It's really just a random draw. Nice people do exist, but the loud mouths tend to stick in minds more. I know this as an ex WoW player who was stuck healing a bunch of loud mouths *shiver*

[Ramus Quaritch]

I believe that Bioware has consistently made (and are still making) rpg's up to today. Having clarified that, I would like to bring up a cautionary tale. The cautionary tale is Stargate Universe.



I am a big fan of the Stargate franchise. For the uninitiated, Stargate is about a network of portals (called Stargates) between different worlds that allow people to travel throughout the galaxy. In the present day the U.S. military discovers a Stargate on Earth and uses it to explore the galaxy and defend Earth from a variety of threats. Check it out It's really good.



Now onto the tale. The original movie, Stargate SG-1,and Stargate Atlantis are all great. They vary a bit in style but have the same themes of exploration, team camaraderie, and interaction with technology (with lots of action too). Then the showrunners make Stargate Universe. Stargate Universe, quite plainly, sucks. It is a soap opera with the Stargate name. They barely use the Stargate itself! It is slow and boring. It focuses almost entirely character drama (which is written like a reality tv show). Science fiction and technology take a backseat in that show. The original Stargate series were pretty popular. But Stargate Universe was rejected by the vast majority of the Stargate fanbase because it ran counter to Stargate canon and lacked the spirit of the previous shows and the movie. Also, it just sucked. Fans were unhappy with it because, in short, it was not Stargate.



I completely understand adjusting and improving your product. I applaud being risky and innovative in designing games.(one reason I hate Activision; they stifle creativity). With that said, if Bioware's future games go too far away from rpg's in an effort to bring in a "mainstream" audience (which is hard to define), then they will lose their core audience. The core and spirit of rpg's should not be abandoned. With all of that said, I believe that Bioware has constantly adhered to that. Even ME2 with some of its changes still gave me the rpg "experience." I just wanted to share that cautionary tale. Thanks!

[JrayM16]

Saphara wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote
I think what it means is that since people play tons of games with progression and points and stuff then they might not be as averse to DA2 as some might think.



Well, that's my interpretation anyway.

Thats assuming those people dont mind not hacking at enemies as much, and would like to develop deeper relationships with characters in your party. I believe these type of people would be open to DA2 regardless.

If they dont like a lot of talking, or they care more about RL interactions than inter-party interactions, then it's quite a bit harder to bridge that gap.

Well, I think if people can stand dialogue scenes in a movie then they'd be totally fine with time spent not killing things.  Especially since hte amount of time spent not fighting is pretty much entirely defined by the player, with few exceptions.  I think we as a forum underestimate the capacity of gamers who don not yet play RPGs to have patience for the less-actioney parts of an RPG.

A ton of people in my school play CoD these days.  I've talked to many of them(who I know play CoD frequentkly) who loved movies such as The King's Speech, or The Social Network, both of which are all-dialogue.

I say we give people a chance, see how they'd react.

[John Epler]

Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!



I have anecdotal evidence to prove this.

[Saphara]

JrayM16 wrote...

Saphara wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote
I think what it means is that since people play tons of games with progression and points and stuff then they might not be as averse to DA2 as some might think.



Well, that's my interpretation anyway.

Thats assuming those people dont mind not hacking at enemies as much, and would like to develop deeper relationships with characters in your party. I believe these type of people would be open to DA2 regardless.

If they dont like a lot of talking, or they care more about RL interactions than inter-party interactions, then it's quite a bit harder to bridge that gap.

Well, I think if people can stand dialogue scenes in a movie then they'd be totally fine with time spent not killing things.  Especially since hte amount of time spent not fighting is pretty much entirely defined by the player, with few exceptions.  I think we as a forum underestimate the capacity of gamers who don not yet play RPGs to have patience for the less-actioney parts of an RPG.

A ton of people in my school play CoD these days.  I've talked to many of them(who I know play CoD frequentkly) who loved movies such as The King's Speech, or The Social Network, both of which are all-dialogue.

I say we give people a chance, see how they'd react.

If, as an animal lover, I can give Michael Vick a second chance and even trust with my 2 loveable puppies, then Id also give the new audience a chance. Im just afraid of the vocal negative nancies

[Carfax]

My problem with DAO was that it was marketed as "dark fantasy" a la George Martin, but turned out to be the complete opposite in many respecfts.



Bioware's policy of overt political correctness actually prevents it from making a TRUE dark fantasy game, like the Witcher for instance.



CDProjekt Red's The Witcher sold 1.4 million copies, despite being PC only and hampered by all the afflictions of a small time developer..



So evidently there is STILL a market for hardcore, complex RPGs.. It may not be as large as the FPS market, but it's certainly there.

[ErichHartmann]

CoD multiplayer is fun. Naturally I am a computer game connoisseur and have many tastes.

[HTTP 404]

JohnEpler wrote...

Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!

I have anecdotal evidence to prove this.

the inventors of Neopolitan Ice Cream were not held back by one type of Ice Cream!

[the_one_54321]

JohnEpler wrote...
Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!

I have anecdotal evidence to prove this.

Um, yeah that's entirely true. I like shooters a lot, for instance. And I like games like DA:O a whole lot. But I like for them to be very different from each other. I think that this isn't such an absurd concept either.

[koshiee]

JohnEpler wrote...

Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!

I have anecdotal evidence to prove this.

way to go hyperbole.
not everyone who enjoys games like COD are immature/an adolescent but a large chunk of COD audience is. So when Bioware says they want COD's audience I don't think they're referring to the smaller portion of COD fans who are mature. 
Also, if they want COD's audience then it makes sense that they would need to emulate what COD does to attract that audience which is what probably worries some people.

Modifié par koshiee, 08 février 2011 - 09:39 .

[HTTP 404]

maybe this thread should be closed. no one is convinced of anything.

[AlexXIV]

I think what Bioware is trying to do is bring RPGs on a different level. To keep the RPG elements and at the same time bring more of the stuff that makes action oriented games great into it. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as they are still clearly developing RPGs. I don't really understand why so many RPG 'conservatives' are so opposed to improvements in the action features if it doesn't really harm the RPG features. I somehow have the feeling some people are just generally bad at action games so they hate the thought that they actually have to overcome another level of playing to be successful. The action part, which relies also on quick reaction, and not just strategy. If people would be honest, pausing a game isn't actually realistic at all. As if Aragorn could have stopped time to get a better overview over the battlefield to give orders or make decisions after carefully and thoroughly considering all possible options.

[John Epler]

the_one_54321 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!

I have anecdotal evidence to prove this.

Um, yeah that's entirely true. I like shooters a lot, for instance. And I like games like DA:O a whole lot. But I like for them to be very different from each other. I think that this isn't such an absurd concept either.

I'm responding more to the idea that people who enjoy games like Call of Duty are adolescent and immature than anything else, really.

And I think that you're misinterpreting the original quote - look at it more like 'we want to draw attention to the aspects of our games that they can relate to and ease them into the ones that they aren't used to', rather than 'we want our games to be pretty much like Call of Duty except, you know, with magic and swords.'

It's the idea that the people who enjoy Call of Duty but have never picked up an RPG might actually enjoy an RPG, they've just never given it a shot. And that's what we want - we want them to look at a game like Dragon Age and say 'you know, that might be something I'd enjoy'.

Am I making sense? I'm heavily caffeinated and slowly going insane by creating reams of documentation, so I may not be entirely clear in my point.

[lv12medic]

koshiee wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!

I have anecdotal evidence to prove this.

way to go hyperbole.
not everyone who enjoys games like COD are immature/an adolescent but a large chunk of COD audience is. So when Bioware says they want COD's audience I don't think they're referring to the smaller portion of COD fans who are mature. 

I don't think Bioware is focusing on getting the attention of other gaming genre players (like CoD, which is almost it's own genre by itself) based off maturity level...

[the_one_54321]

JohnEpler wrote...
I'm responding more to the idea that people who enjoy games like Call of Duty are adolescent and immature than anything else, really.

And I think that you're misinterpreting the original quote - look at it more like 'we want to draw attention to the aspects of our games that they can relate to and ease them into the ones that they aren't used to', rather than 'we want our games to be pretty much like Call of Duty except, you know, with magic and swords.'

It's the idea that the people who enjoy Call of Duty but have never picked up an RPG might actually enjoy an RPG, they've just never given it a shot. And that's what we want - we want them to look at a game like Dragon Age and say 'you know, that might be something I'd enjoy'.

Am I making sense? I'm heavily caffeinated and slowly going insane by creating reams of documentation, so I may not be entirely clear in my point.

That sounds much more reasonable than what was quoted in the article.

[Saphara]

JohnEpler wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!

I have anecdotal evidence to prove this.

Um, yeah that's entirely true. I like shooters a lot, for instance. And I like games like DA:O a whole lot. But I like for them to be very different from each other. I think that this isn't such an absurd concept either.

I'm responding more to the idea that people who enjoy games like Call of Duty are adolescent and immature than anything else, really.

And I think that you're misinterpreting the original quote - look at it more like 'we want to draw attention to the aspects of our games that they can relate to and ease them into the ones that they aren't used to', rather than 'we want our games to be pretty much like Call of Duty except, you know, with magic and swords.'

It's the idea that the people who enjoy Call of Duty but have never picked up an RPG might actually enjoy an RPG, they've just never given it a shot. And that's what we want - we want them to look at a game like Dragon Age and say 'you know, that might be something I'd enjoy'.

Am I making sense? I'm heavily caffeinated and slowly going insane by creating reams of documentation, so I may not be entirely clear in my point.

well, that makes sense. A bit of marketing magic and the stylized fighting do look both fun to the new audience and Bioware fans (at least to me).

Sadly, posts read after only 3 hours of sleep tend to not go over well until lots of Dr. pepper and chocolate have been consumed.

[Marionetten]

JohnEpler wrote...

Unbelievably, it's possible to enjoy more than one type of game. I know, I know. It's crazy, and it flies right in the face of the idea that 'everyone who enjoys games like CoD is immature/an adolescent', but it's true!

I'd just prefer my RPGs being RPGs and my shooters being shooters. Oldfashioned? Maybe. But that's just how I am.

Not everything needs to be bridged or glued together.

Modifié par Marionetten, 08 février 2011 - 09:44 .

[KBomb]

JohnEpler wrote...

I'm responding more to the idea that people who enjoy games like Call of Duty are adolescent and immature than anything else, really.

And I think that you're misinterpreting the original quote - look at it more like 'we want to draw attention to the aspects of our games that they can relate to and ease them into the ones that they aren't used to', rather than 'we want our games to be pretty much like Call of Duty except, you know, with magic and swords.'

It's the idea that the people who enjoy Call of Duty but have never picked up an RPG might actually enjoy an RPG, they've just never given it a shot. And that's what we want - we want them to look at a game like Dragon Age and say 'you know, that might be something I'd enjoy'.

Am I making sense? I'm heavily caffeinated and slowly going insane by creating reams of documentation, so I may not be entirely clear in my point.

Makes sense to me, I had no trouble picking up what you're puttind down.

[The Baconer]

So they completely misconstrue someone's quote and make a sensationalist article title out of it. It's no different than the tripe that petty tabloids put out.

[Maelora]

Jeebers, Bioware are really circling the wagons on this one.



Try and appeal to both genres and you'll just upset both. Simples.

[slimgrin]

Ahh yes, genre blending. We all know how that can go.

Melo is just mincing concepts.

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[Saphara]

Maelora wrote...

Jeebers, Bioware are really circling the wagons on this one.

Try and appeal to both genres and you'll just upset both. Simples.

Although, ironically, a good compromise is when both sides are upset. Maybe that just applies to non video games though...