317 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

AlanC9 wrote...

dragondragon wrote...

I see their point. My brother would never play Dragon Age just because it is an RPG.

That's the interesting part. What did RPGs do to drive so many gamers away?

They require brains

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 février 2011 - 10:48 .

[Maelora]

The mods sure are pretty hostile to opinions they dislike. They're really manning the barricades at HQ. Heaven forbid we dislike FPS and their fans.



Another PR coup for Bioware.

[Beren082]

If they want a streamlined game, I'd like to see mechanics similar to Mount & Blade married to the story telling and graphical magic of Bioware. Can you imagine how well that would sell? It would pay for its self within a weekend.

[AtreiyaN7]

I think it is possible that BW might be able to attract the interest of some of the people who do enjoy the story aspects of the single-player campaign and the skill progression of multiplayer in games like CoD (thought Black Ops had a decent story, brought to mind the Manchurian Candidate a bit at any rate). Maybe those gamers have never thought of RPGs as being accessible or exciting and tend to dismiss them out of hand? It seems as if BioWare has made DA2 fairly accessible with improved graphics (based on the recent flood of DA2 videos/info), but they have not thrown out the things that we liked in DA:O such as the tactics and the pause & play mechanics.

There are obvious changes (voiced protagonist, which I like, amongst other things) that will potentially be more appealing to the non-hardcore RPG gamer, but I think we should be inclusive and welcome them if they want to play DA2 instead of trying to exclude them and insult them. The RPG genre is not our private fiefdom, and we are not inherently intellectually superior or more mature than gamers who prefer shooters (or any other game ). That becomes particularly obvious when people start throwing around insults instead of trying to keep the discourse civil.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 08 février 2011 - 10:54 .

[JrayM16]

*Walks away from thread shaking head*

[the_one_54321]

AlanC9 wrote...

dragondragon wrote...
I see their point. My brother would never play Dragon Age just because it is an RPG.

That's the interesting part. What did RPGs do to drive so many gamers away?

They grew up with the notion that RPGs are for nerds and losers. It's emo stuff with cheesy stories for people who can't handle the competition of fightng, sports, racing, and shooting multiplayer. RPG players can't handle the heat, they can't handle hate, they can't handle the competion, they can't handle being leet or losing.

I'm exaggerating. I just want to point out the kind of shared ideas that lead to concepts that are quoted.

[AlanC9]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
If a game is technically a shooter but has a good story, character development, banter, loot, an inventory system, and "level up" systems, what difference is there in an RPG anyway?

You don't really want us to answer this...

Why not? It's been a week or so since the last "what is an RPG" flamewar.

[addiction21]

slimgrin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

dragondragon wrote...

I see their point. My brother would never play Dragon Age just because it is an RPG.

That's the interesting part. What did RPGs do to drive so many gamers away?

They require brains

So does eating and breathing. Are you saying people that do not enjoy RPGs are braindead? Or just morons?

[John Epler]

Maelora wrote...

The mods sure are pretty hostile to opinions they dislike. They're really manning the barricades at HQ. Heaven forbid we dislike FPS and their fans.

Another PR coup for Bioware.

We are hostile to the opinion that the type of game someone prefers necessarily indicates a particular level of maturity or intelligence, yes. Given that most people are capable of discussing this issue without resorting to vitriol and strawmen, and given that we've ended many similar diatribes levelled against those who prefer old-school RPGs, I'd say that we're rather more even-handed than you suggest, and that our primary goal is to promote harmony and civil discourse.

Of course, your interpretation is cool too.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 08 février 2011 - 10:55 .

[DJBare]

I like action RPG with the emphasis on RPG, my only concern when looking to grab the CoD audience is the developers placing the emphasis on action and thereby losing depth.

[Maera Imrov]

slimgrin wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

dragondragon wrote...

I see their point. My brother would never play Dragon Age just because it is an RPG.

That's the interesting part. What did RPGs do to drive so many gamers away?

They require brains

Or alternatively, it could be that they dislike grinding and still believe it is involved. Granted, this is more a feature of JRPGs than Western ones these days, but the stigma is still there. There is no enjoyment or difficulty in having to fight mobs that die in in a few seconds with mimimal effort for paltry exp when the curve has taken an astronomical jump just because you passed some arbitrary level point. This is, coincidentally, what the smart MMO producers are realizing now. The ones that aren't, well, look at Aion. Case rested.

Many people I talk to about RPGs who do not play them seem to still be under the impression that grind is still involved, when it really isn't, unless you're still playing FFs or Kingdom Hearts and trying to take out Terra's Lingering Sentiment or something. But most western RPGs, you can hit the cap easily just by naturally progressing through the game, which is one thing I adore about them.

Not much to be done about it unless you can manage to talk people into trying the games anyway, to see that their preconceptions are outdated for the most part.

[Merci357]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The point, as I and John Epler have been trying to get across, is that games no longer have to appeal to just one fanbase. Games are complex enough (yes, even the shooters) that they might appeal to all kinds of different gamers. Developers and publishres will target other groups because of all this labeling internet folk like to do.

And why not? I happen to like RPGs, so I play mostly those, and 2011 will deliver plenty. However, I've also enjoyed Starcraft 2, Civilisation V or Dead Space 2, just to name a few recent non-RPGs.

[AlexXIV]

AlanC9 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
If a game is technically a shooter but has a good story, character development, banter, loot, an inventory system, and "level up" systems, what difference is there in an RPG anyway?

You don't really want us to answer this...

Why not? It's been a week or so since the last "what is an RPG" flamewar.

To Stan's list I can add any skills that make the game feel less hack and slash like. Stealth for once, also I like any sort of alchemy options, be it to make bombs, healing potions or poisons. And to be able to use them outside of combat. The basic difference between rpgs and other games is that the rpg player wants their world to feel alive, where in other games competition and achievements are the main focus of the player.

[upsettingshorts]

slimgrin wrote...

They require brains

If you play a shooter worth its salt in a brainless fashion you will die.  A lot.

Maera Imrov wrote...

Not much to be done about it unless you can manage to talk people into trying the games anyway, to see that their preconceptions are outdated for the most part.

Indeed.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 février 2011 - 11:02 .

[Rixxencaxx]

what if dragon age 2 sell as many copies as origins or even less?
Will you accept the idea that there is a limited audience for every kind of game and that wow and call of duty are the only exceptions to this rule?

Modifié par Rixxencaxx, 08 février 2011 - 11:02 .

[slimgrin]

JohnEpler wrote...

We are hostile to the opinion that the type of game someone prefers necessarily indicates a particular level of maturity or intelligence, yes. Given that most people are capable of discussing this issue without resorting to vitriol and strawmen, and given that we've ended many similar diatribes levelled against those who prefer old-school RPGs, I'd say that we're rather more even-handed than you suggest, and that our primary goal is to promote harmony and civil discourse.

Of course, your interpretation is cool too.

You guys are pretty even-handed.

You have to admit Melo is playing with fire by saying that. I don't think there are two fanbases more diametrically opposed.

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 février 2011 - 11:02 .

[koshiee]

smh at bioware. this line of thinking is why games will never really grow up

Modifié par koshiee, 08 février 2011 - 11:03 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

koshiee wrote...

smh at bioware. this line of thinking is why games will never really grow up

you mean yours right?

[Pey27]

so lame to see bioware going ea sports on rpgs...

[upsettingshorts]

Pey27 wrote...

so lame to see bioware going ea sports on rpgs...

Oh nonsense.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 08 février 2011 - 11:11 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Pey27 wrote...

so lame to see bioware going ea sports on rpgs...

Oh nonsense.

your new avatar and post fits so well

[Tsuga C]

Rixxencaxx wrote...

what if dragon age 2 sell as many copies as origins or even less?

Will you accept the idea that there is a limited audience for every kind of game and that wow and call of duty are the only exceptions to this rule?

If DA2 sells significantly less than did all the versions of DA:O, then the oh-so-bright people in charge at EA*** might very well pull the plug on future installments of the DA franchise.  The thought that there is actually a market for DA:O-style games wouldn't occur to them because such games don't fit into their development schedule or ROI requirements, ergo they don't want to make them.

***When EA bought BioWare, the primary reason that upper management at EA didn't kill the project or order it changed significantly is because the "old school" game was so far into production that it was too late to do so without flushing a huge amount of money and labor down the toilet.

Modifié par Tsuga C, 08 février 2011 - 11:15 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

They grew up with the notion that RPGs are for nerds and losers.

RPGs are for nerds.

[JrayM16]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

They grew up with the notion that RPGs are for nerds and losers.

RPGs are for nerds.

This is incorrect and unconstructive.

[John Epler]

Perhaps it's just a matter of difference in perspective - I'm one of those dreaded 'FPS fans' that some of you seem convinced are going to ruin Dragon Age. Occasionally, I like to unwind with a round of some FPS or another, or I'll pick up a game that's played in a mostly first person perspective to relax at the end of a particularly stressful or busy day.

Some of the most mature and intelligently engaging experiences I've had were through games that are, ostensibly, FPSes. Sometimes, of course, I just feel like going into multiplayer and fighting against other human opponents. Of course, other nights, I'll boot up some turn-based strategy game or space exploration game that makes rocket science seem like no big thing.

I guess I just find it odd that some people are categorizing others based on what games they tend to play. Not everyone (nor, for that matter, would I say the majority of people) who play a CoD game fit the sorts of stereotypes some folks are painting them with. And yes, there are loudmouthed idiots, but I expect that's true in most games - console shooters just have the dubious distinction of an easily-used (and easily-abused) voice chat system. One guy in a match can ruin it for everyone else - there are still 22 other people who weren't being obnoxious in the slightest.

And why wouldn't we want to tell some of those folks who have only ever played those sorts of games that 'hey, here are some aspects of the game similar to what you're used to.' Just because you like to unwind with a competitive shooter, that doesn't mean you can't appreciate the finer points of a story-based RPG. And if we have something in common that we can use as an 'in' to get you to try something you may not normally try, all the better.