6655 réponses à ce sujet

[Rinji the Bearded]

panamakira wrote...

Anybody has any really good pictures or fanart? I'm in need of some Anders T_T

I'm working on some!

[upsettingshorts]

Here's the issue I've got with the whole cannibalism thing, if you'll indulge me. Take a look at the other companions, they are more or less all casually dismissed - or were, before being announced as romances - for simplistic and superficial reasons:

Varric: Short. Dwarf.
Isabela: "Sl*t"
Aveline: Masculine
etc

And then we come to Anders who, whether it is the result of a conscious decision or not killed people and then ate them. It seems like a pretty huge deal, and I while I do understand those who are worried about it and hope their characters can do something about those tendencies, the handwaving of it isn't something I'm able to comprehend. If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 février 2011 - 02:26 .

[Miri1984]

@Panamakira I believe I can help you there:



Cave-Fatuam





..and Galagraphia

[VampOrchid]

Yup I'm do for some Anders fan art!

[Most Definitely Sane]

I don't get why people dismiss the other LIs/companions.
Varric seems like a funny guy.
Isabela is charming and flirty.
Aveline is tough and determined.
Some people do handwave Anders' eating habits, but not everyone.

Modifié par Most Definitely Sane, 16 février 2011 - 02:31 .

[VampOrchid]

http://browse.devian...Anders#/d32apjc

by Aimo

Modifié par VampOrchid, 16 février 2011 - 02:32 .

[VampOrchid]

Varric is not a LI

[upsettingshorts]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

I don't get why people dismiss the other LIs/companions.

Neither do I.  I'd consider my position wary, not dismissive.  Though certainly not enthusiastic.

VampOrchid wrote...

Varric is not a LI

Neither is Isabela Aveline, but I was speaking partially in the past tense - before anyone was confirmed as an LI at all.

Edit: Oops

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 février 2011 - 02:35 .

[Eshaye]

I'm not prepared to give too much to the whole eating people thing until we know more, it seems like it would be a one time thing and probably a huge reason why Anders struggles to keep Vengeance under control. It's not like Anders is Hannibal...

[panamakira]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Here's the issue I've got with the whole cannibalism thing, if you'll indulge me. Take a look at the other companions, they are more or less all casually dismissed - or were, before being announced as romances - for simplistic and superficial reasons:

Varric: Short. Dwarf.
Isabela: "Sl*t"
Aveline: Masculine
etc

And then we come to Anders who, whether it is the result of a conscious decision or not killed people and then ate them. It seems like a pretty huge deal, and I while I do understand those who are worried about it and hope their characters can do something about those tendencies, the handwaving of it isn't something I'm able to comprehend. If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

I know what you're saying. I'm concerned myself about it but you also have to remember that Anders is not a new character. He was a character that many people liked from DA:A, but here comes Bioware and throws us the curve ball and changes Anders' situation completely. I still like Anders but I still don't know what to expect. As a fan of his, I hope there's a way Lady Hawke can work it out on his favor, meaning getting rid of Justice. Plus the way I saw it was that he was not aware of what he was doing while Vengeance was killing and eating Templars. I didn't see people judging Connor too bad and I think he desrves just like Sten, a chance to redeem himself.

Also there's plenty of people who are in love with Edward (Twilight) as a character and he's a freakin Vampire! I mean I'm not justifying eating people but you make it sound as if it's the first time there is such a dark background for a fantasy and fictional character.

Modifié par panamakira, 16 février 2011 - 02:36 .

[VampOrchid]

Isabela is a confirmed LI

[upsettingshorts]

Eshaye wrote...

I'm not prepared to give too much to the whole eating people thing until we know more, it seems like it would be a one time thing and probably a huge reason why Anders struggles to keep Vengeance under control. It's not like Anders is Hannibal...

Perhaps, but those stories were explicitly posted with the purpose of helping fans get to know the characters better.  And Anders story just happened to have violence and heavily implied cannibalism.  It goes beyond Aveline's arms, Varric's height, Isabela's sexual history... all things - for logical reasons or not - people assume mean something.  For Anders and his issues, it's right there in black and white.

VampOrchid wrote...

Isabela is a confirmed LI

Oops, meant to type Aveline.  Will edit.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 février 2011 - 02:35 .

[sassperella]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Here's the issue I've got with the whole cannibalism thing, if you'll indulge me. Take a look at the other companions, they are more or less all casually dismissed - or were, before being announced as romances - for simplistic and superficial reasons:

Varric: Short. Dwarf.
Isabela: "Sl*t"
Aveline: Masculine
etc

And then we come to Anders who, whether it is the result of a conscious decision or not killed people and then ate them. It seems like a pretty huge deal, and I while I do understand those who are worried about it and hope their characters can do something about those tendencies, the handwaving of it isn't something I'm able to comprehend. If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

Cannibalism is not part of Anders personality. He never indulged in awakening or showed any sign of wanting to consume his compatriots -  it's Vengeance, the demon that partially possesses him when he fails to control it. That story was Vengeance's birth, the birth of a demon is not going to be pretty, and from the tone of the story you can see at the end Anders had no control, he doesn't even remember it - he just knows it was him/justice. If the "eaten flesh" is not just descriptive but literal, then yes it's eww, but saying Anders is now cannibalistic is rubbish. Demons do heinous things when possessing people, that's what makes them demons. Anders isn't going to be a hearts and flowers LI, but people have to be able to separate his actions from the demon's actions if they are going to accept Anders.

[panamakira]

Thanks Miri!



hehe this thread needed more Anders!

[Rinji the Bearded]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Perhaps, but those stories were explicitly posted with the purpose of helping fans get to know the characters better.  And Anders story just happened to have violence and heavily implied cannibalism.  It goes beyond Aveline's arms, Varric's height, Isabela's sexual history... all things - for logical reasons or not - people assume mean something.  For Anders and his issues, it's right there in black and white.

I'm certainly not blaming him for something that was out of his control.  If he had "eaten" those bodies consciously, then yes, I'd be squicked?  But you're asking us to judge him harshly because he was clearly out of control?  Do we even know if he's done this again?  Do we even know if he'll divulge any of this information to Hawke right off the bat?  

We're assuming way too much.

[Anarya]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Here's the issue I've got with the whole cannibalism thing, if you'll indulge me. Take a look at the other companions, they are more or less all casually dismissed - or were, before being announced as romances - for simplistic and superficial reasons:

Varric: Short. Dwarf.
Isabela: "Sl*t"
Aveline: Masculine
etc

And then we come to Anders who, whether it is the result of a conscious decision or not killed people and then ate them. It seems like a pretty huge deal, and I while I do understand those who are worried about it and hope their characters can do something about those tendencies, the handwaving of it isn't something I'm able to comprehend. If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

You do have a valid point.

[upsettingshorts]

sassperella wrote...

Cannibalism is not part of Anders personality. He never indulged in awakening or showed any sign of wanting to consume his compatriots -  it's Vengeance, the demon that partially possesses him when he fails to control it. That story was Vengeance's birth, the birth of a demon is not going to be pretty, and from the tone of the story you can see at the end Anders had no control, he doesn't even remember it - he just knows it was him/justice. If the "eaten flesh" is not just descriptive but literal, then yes it's eww, but saying Anders is now cannibalistic is rubbish. Demons do heinous things when possessing people, that's what makes them demons. Anders isn't going to be a hearts and flowers LI, but people have to be able to separate his actions from the demon's actions if they are going to accept Anders.

Let's not dismiss my concerns as "rubbish" - whether or not his resident demon personality is the cause of cannibalism is not relevant to me. It's part of the whole being now. Hence the difference I'm making between those who seriously consider removing that aspect a priority, and those who claim not to care - or even like it.

RinjiRenee wrote...

But you're asking us to judge him
harshly because he was clearly out of control?  Do we even know if he's
done this again?

No, I'm asking how people who aren't wary or are excited can not be wary or be excited.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 février 2011 - 02:41 .

[Dr. Doctor]

Thinking about the whole Anders/Vengeance thing today. All that popped into my head was Anders giving this speech

[Jean]

Miri1984 wrote...

[Anarya]

I do wonder whether the bulk of the romance occurs before or after Vengeance is exorcised (I'm pretty sure this will happen at some point), because that would affect my views on this cannibalism thing that seems to be going on. I can't really fault Anders for the things he might do while demon-possessed.

[VampOrchid]

http://browse.devian...set=24#/d2yoynm

More Anders by Aimo

[panamakira]

Well I'd like Anders not to "nom nom" Lady Hawke. And yes I'd rather get rid of Justice first. He's just gonna be the moody-corrupt-spirit-third-wheel-lets-kill-templars in the relationship.

Modifié par panamakira, 16 février 2011 - 02:44 .

[opheliamars]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Thinking about the whole Anders/Vengeance thing today. All that popped into my head was Anders giving this speech

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

... I had to.

[leggywillow]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Here's the issue I've got with the whole cannibalism thing, if you'll indulge me. Take a look at the other companions, they are more or less all casually dismissed - or were, before being announced as romances - for simplistic and superficial reasons:

Varric: Short. Dwarf.
Isabela: "Sl*t"
Aveline: Masculine
etc

And then we come to Anders who, whether it is the result of a conscious decision or not killed people and then ate them. It seems like a pretty huge deal, and I while I do understand those who are worried about it and hope their characters can do something about those tendencies, the handwaving of it isn't something I'm able to comprehend. If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

Well, some have mentioned that we don't know exactly how much cannibalism went on.  The story is open to interpretation.  I get the impression that it was more of an artistic choice in the story, and I think it was mostly meant to show just how animalistic and brutal he was at the time.  I don't think he started chowing down Hannibal Lector style.  I think it was more to really illustrate that he was literally tearing these guys apart with own hands and teeth, and he enjoyed it.  I'm not denying that some technical cannibalism went on, though.  Nor am I saying that his brutalism is any better.

Additionally, I don't quite think "tendency" is the right word.  It happened once.  And I agree, that isn't something to make light of or dismiss.  That's a big freakin' deal.  I think the real difference is, does Anders make light of it?  I don't think he will, and I think down that path he can find redemption.  His conscious attitude towards it, and not having the incident happen again, will make all the difference to me.

I understand what you're saying... if Anders wasn't so awesome in Awakening and established as a conventionally sexy and funny guy, would we be so accepting of this?  Eh, maybe not.  But isn't that part of making a character compelling?  He has a dark side, and it is VERY dark indeed.  The player, and Hawke, will feel torn: attracted to him and repulsed by him at the same time, loving him and also fearing him.  I think him being NOT an "ugly, unfunny jerk" is important to playing up that aspect.

[Threeparts]

No, Justice, don't do it!