6655 réponses à ce sujet

[VampOrchid]

Threeparts wrote...


No, Justice, don't do it!

Epic!

[opheliamars]

Miri1984 wrote...

*snip awesomeness by Galagraphia*

*wibble* Oh, I just want to give him a hug.

[sassperella]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Cannibalism is not part of Anders personality. He never indulged in awakening or showed any sign of wanting to consume his compatriots -  it's Vengeance, the demon that partially possesses him when he fails to control it. That story was Vengeance's birth, the birth of a demon is not going to be pretty, and from the tone of the story you can see at the end Anders had no control, he doesn't even remember it - he just knows it was him/justice. If the "eaten flesh" is not just descriptive but literal, then yes it's eww, but saying Anders is now cannibalistic is rubbish. Demons do heinous things when possessing people, that's what makes them demons. Anders isn't going to be a hearts and flowers LI, but people have to be able to separate his actions from the demon's actions if they are going to accept Anders.

Let's not dismiss my concerns as "rubbish" - whether or not his resident demon personality is the cause of cannibalism is not relevant to me. It's part of the whole being now. Hence the difference I'm making between those who seriously consider removing that aspect a priority, and those who claim not to care - or even like it.

I don't remember reading anyone who said that they enjoyed the fact that Anders ate human flesh, though I may have missed it. The impression I get from most of the posts here is that yes it is a concern and yes people want to help Anders, Justice or both to return to their former selves. They realise this lapse is probably a one time thing during which the demon had total control and Anders regrets it and is repulsed by it and has thrown himself into trying to atone by healing refugees.  It's far more complex than the straight up "Anders is a cannibal kill him now" approach which is very black and white - Dragon age isn't meant to be black and white.

Modifié par sassperella, 16 février 2011 - 02:46 .

[panamakira]

@Threeparts



haha~ Awesome pic.



I am Anders.

I am Justice.

[RestARose13]

panamakira wrote...

Anybody has any really good pictures or fanart? I'm in need of some Anders T_T

All Anders

[panamakira]

@Hihane

<3Thanks!

[VampOrchid]

By VelvetRue

http://velvetrue.dev...age Anders&qo=3

[Miri1984]

@Hihane Yes! You must all come and join! Seriously, there's been some awesome art done already, to put on top of the awesome art that came before . Grittier, darker Anders has SO MUCH potential as a subject.

[panamakira]

Yeah dark Anders has a lot of potential for some great fanart!

[RestARose13]

Miri1984 wrote...

@Hihane Yes! You must all come and join! Seriously, there's been some awesome art done already, to put on top of the awesome art that came before . Grittier, darker Anders has SO MUCH potential as a subject.

No joke!  I havent been able to stop drawing him for about a week!  Not that I'm complaining, mind you.  It gives me an excuse to look at more pictures of him to insure accuracy

[Most Definitely Sane]

Threeparts wrote...

*snip*
No, Justice, don't do it!

Is it just me or does he look...stoned? Out of it?

[Miri1984]

@Most Definitely Sane Awakenings and Origins - the games where all your characters were perpetually high

[panamakira]

That's some great artwork. I think I'm gonna contribute to the thread with some fan art too!!!



^__^ I'll make something tonight~

[Miri1984]

@ Mash Mashington Here here!

[leggywillow]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And then we come to Anders who, whether it is the result of a conscious decision or not killed people and then ate them. It seems like a pretty huge deal, and I while I do understand those who are worried about it and hope their characters can do something about those tendencies, the handwaving of it isn't something I'm able to comprehend. If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

Hmm, this just gave me another thought though... only peripherally related to Anders, I suppose.  Why is the one-time cannibalism the taboo where you draw the line?  Does this one horrible event out of his conscious control make him worse than Zevran or Jack?  Zevran was an assassin, who consciously murdered many people in cold blood for coin.  Jack murders and maims because of the joyous rush it gives her.  Anders murdered and cannibalized some people while being controlled by a demon and is rightfully horrified by it.  Is he truly WORSE than Zevran or Jack?!

It's just an interesting look into what the audience does and does not consider acceptable, I suppose.  In my mind, Zevran and Jack warranted much more wariness as romance options than Anders.

Modifié par leggywillow, 16 février 2011 - 03:04 .

[Most Definitely Sane]

leggywillow wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

And then we come to Anders who, whether it is the result of a conscious decision or not killed people and then ate them. It seems like a pretty huge deal, and I while I do understand those who are worried about it and hope their characters can do something about those tendencies, the handwaving of it isn't something I'm able to comprehend. If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

Hmm, this just gave me another thought though... only peripherally related to Anders, I suppose.  Why is the one-time cannibalism the taboo where you draw the line?  Does this one horrible event out of his conscious control make him worse than Zevran or Jack?  Zevran was an assassin, who consciously murdered many people in cold blood for coin.  Jack murders and maims because of the joyous rush it gives her.  Anders murdered and cannibalized some people while being controlled by a demon and is rightfully horrified by it.  Is he truly WORSE than Zevran or Jack?!

It's just an interesting look into what the audience does and does not consider acceptable, I suppose.  In my mind, Zevran and Jack warranted much more wariness as romance options than Anders.

Actually, I think they all deserve the same amount of wariness. Even though Anders couldn't control it, he is possessed by a demon or spirit or whatever anyone wants to call it. We don't know when he'll lose control again.

[upsettingshorts]

leggywillow wrote...

Is he truly WORSE than Zevran or Jack?!

If the question is "Is cannibalism worse than run of the mill murder and sociopathy?" then my answer would be an emphatic yes.

leggywillow wrote...

It's just an interesting look into what the audience does and does not consider acceptable, I suppose.  In my mind, Zevran and Jack warranted much more wariness as romance options than Anders.

I only compared Anders to other DA2 companions - not DAO or ME1-2 ones because I wasn't participating on the forums in the leadup to those games.

[leggywillow]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

Actually, I think they all deserve the same amount of wariness. Even though Anders couldn't control it, he is possessed by a demon or spirit or whatever anyone wants to call it. We don't know when he'll lose control again.

This is true, yes.  I'm just saying, ridiculously dangerous LIs are hardly a new phenomenon for Bioware, and it kind of sucks that a lot of people seem to think Anders has crossed the line.  It's an interesting look at taboos.

[Urazz]

Eshaye wrote...

I'm not prepared to give too much to the whole eating people thing until we know more, it seems like it would be a one time thing and probably a huge reason why Anders struggles to keep Vengeance under control. It's not like Anders is Hannibal...

Well he did rip the guys head off so it could've just been blood getting in his face and he tasted it? 

[AtreiyaN7]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Easy: Anders got transferred to the command of a different Grey Warden than The Warden. Problem of character continuity solved.

Also what is the consensus of the thread on Anders eating people?

I think most people are not okay with cannibalism, but I'm only guessing. I may like sweet & sour pork, but uh, no, no, no, noooooo (I know I"ve said that I hate ham, but I love most other pork products!). That being said, I think Anders/Vengeance/Justice was acting in self-defense, albeit rage-fueled, angry & highly messy self-defense (with some bloodlust thrown in). *shrug* 

What I find interesting is that according to the Awakening epilogue (the one that I got) Justice stayed on with the Wardens for many years, only leaving Kristoff's body after Aura expressed her her inceasing discomfort at the state of his body's decay. I guess the Wardens were incredibly flexible about that situation, or maybe the PC's Warden keeps it a secret.

I think my Anders epilogue indicated that he stayed with the Wardens, but when he was supposed to give a lecture at the Circle, he up and vanished. Later he resurfaced and rejoined the Wardens and stayed with them...err, I think, unless I got my epilogues mixed up.

[Riona45]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Here's the issue I've got with the whole cannibalism thing, if you'll indulge me. Take a look at the other companions, they are more or less all casually dismissed - or were, before being announced as romances - for simplistic and superficial reasons:

Varric: Short. Dwarf.
Isabela: "Sl*t"
Aveline: Masculine
etc

Those characters weren't dismissed by everyone, and we can't assume everyone who loves Anders dismissed them, either.  I, for one, am sick and tired of the language people consistently use to insult the female characters (especially Isabella)--much of the time it reeks of sexism and entitlement.

Modifié par Riona45, 16 février 2011 - 03:14 .

[Riona45]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
What I find interesting is that according to the Awakening epilogue (the one that I got) Justice stayed on with the Wardens for many years, only leaving Kristoff's body after Aura expressed her her inceasing discomfort at the state of his body's decay. I guess the Wardens were incredibly flexible about that situation, or maybe the PC's Warden keeps it a secret.

Hmm, I can totally see my Warden doing that.

I think my Anders epilogue indicated that he stayed with the Wardens, but when he was supposed to give a lecture at the Circle, he up and vanished. Later he resurfaced and rejoined the Wardens and stayed with them...err, I think, unless I got my epilogues mixed up.

No, you have it about right.

[leggywillow]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If the question is "Is cannibalism worse than run of the mill murder and sociopathy?" then my answer would be an emphatic yes.

::shrug::  And I soundly disagree.  Losing control due to demonic influence ONCE vs a lifetime of calculated and uncaring murder?  To me, attitude and circumstance are key here, but if we want to blindly throw labels around, I guess that works too.  Plus the fact that there's such a thing as "run of the mill" sociopathy and murder is a bit chilling.

ETA:   I assume the point you were ultimately making is that people blindly threw around labels for Varric and Aveline as well, but I don't see how doing so in return to Anders is going to enrich anyone's experience of DA2.

Modifié par leggywillow, 16 février 2011 - 03:22 .