6655 réponses à ce sujet

[MyKingdomCold]

I asked this in a different topic that was closed. And I'm sorry if it has been asked before.



But will Anders' dialogue change depending on how you dealt with him in Awakening? For example, if you gave him to the chantry and didn't make him a Grey Warden, would the dialogue change? Also, how would he meet up with Justice if that happened?

[ThatDancingTurian]

Wow, lots of stuff to back-read!

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If he was an ugly, unfunny jerk who had no following from a previous game, would anyone even remotely entertain ignoring such an aspect of a potential LI's personality? I'm guessing not.

BioWare never would've pulled this cannibal thing if Anders hadn't been in Awakening. I think they were counting on him having such an established following so that we would be more understanding of this thing he's becoming.

Compare it to Garrus and Zaeed's missions in ME2. Both basically the same story. Zaeed will do anything to get revenge, and he comes off as a short-sighted, selfish jerk because of it. Garrus' situation is much more relatable, because we know the man he was before all of this anger and pain. Sidonis' betrayal means more to me than Vido's, because I see its effects, I'm not hearing about it after the fact from a man already bitter and closed-off.

I don't like the events from the short story at all. I was quite upset when I read it, I even felt a little betrayed by where they're taking the character. But I know who Anders is, and that was not him. It only makes me want to save him more.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 16 février 2011 - 03:21 .

[Rinji the Bearded]

Riona45 wrote...

Those characters weren't dismissed by everyone, and we can't assume everyone who loves Anders dismissed them, either.  I, for one, am sick and tired of the language people consistently use to insult the female characters (especially Isabella)--much of the time it reeks of sexism and entitlement.

Indeed.  And now I'm losing track of what this discussion was about, really!  LOL.

[Rinji the Bearded]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I asked this in a different topic that was closed. And I'm sorry if it has been asked before.

But will Anders' dialogue change depending on how you dealt with him in Awakening? For example, if you gave him to the chantry and didn't make him a Grey Warden, would the dialogue change? Also, how would he meet up with Justice if that happened?

No one knows.  We have been told to play the game! 

[Threeparts]

I honestly don't find cannibalism particularly bothersome. It isn't a squick of mine and I've never really grasped why it's such a great taboo, but I do understand why and how it's used for emotional impact in fiction and things like news stories. I certainly find murder, torture and rape far worse than eating the remains of another human.

I understand that it's being used in the story to emphasise that Vengeance is not nice, Vengeance is not tame. Vengeance will **** your **** up. And it doesn't make me wary of the character, but interested. He's not going to jump out of the screen and gnaw on my face, and I haven't yet met him as Hawke. I don't want to meta-game that knowledge into her story. If he never does it again and never tells her about it, then I won't let it affect my game. If it's a recurring theme, I'll deal with it as it's presented.

I'm curious as to how it will affect Anders and what repercussions he'll suffer, but it doesn't bother me as a player, no.

Modifié par Threeparts, 16 février 2011 - 03:42 .

[Minxie]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
But I know who Anders is, and that was not him. It only makes me want to save him more.

Well said!

[Browneye_Vamp84]

Minxie18 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
But I know who Anders is, and that was not him. It only makes me want to save him more.

Well said!

*picks up gear and heads out*

[Taleroth]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Indeed.  And now I'm losing track of what this discussion was about, really!  LOL.

It's about me.  I think.  I may have missed something.

[syllogi]

Mash Mashington wrote...

*delurks*

This cannibalism thing has gotten out of hand. See, when you chop off man's head chances are his blood will somehow get into your mouth. I bet all the Origins characters got a lot of that - just look at those blood stains on them, oh my god sick flesh-eaters.


So until i get an actual quote on how Anders chewed, chumped, munched on the delicious templar meat (or any other verb associated with intentional process of consuming food) i refuse to call it cannibalism.

Thank you

Yeah, my thoughts about this issue are pretty much the same at the moment.  Until DA2 reveals Anders to be Thedas's answer to Hannibal Lecter, I'm not going to bother with defending my interest in this character because of a short story which may or may not be canon, and by no means implies that Anders is going to be eating human flesh willingly during the time Hawke knows him.  If, in fact, this does occur, my opinion will change.  Until then, I will judge Anders by my impressions of him in Awakening, and the short clip of his introduction we saw.  

When Hawke meets Anders, he will be healing refugees.  Not eating people.  That says a lot to me about what the writers would like us to think of him, at least at first.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Minxie18 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
But I know who Anders is, and that was not him. It only makes me want to save him more.

Well said!

Thanks! To be totally OT for a second, I've seen you posting around here and have been meaning to say that I love your avatar. ::LotS fan:: <3

[Eshaye]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Perhaps, but those stories were explicitly posted with the purpose of helping fans get to know the characters better.  And Anders story just happened to have violence and heavily implied cannibalism.  It goes beyond Aveline's arms, Varric's height, Isabela's sexual history... all things - for logical reasons or not - people assume mean something.  For Anders and his issues, it's right there in black and white.

Heavily? Hardly. 

"His blood SPLASHES into my open mouth* 

You might as well say that everyone who has every killed with their mouth open is a cannibal, which is probably everyone in Thedas considering how much blood splatters and when you are exerting yourself in battle you will have your mouth open.... It does NOT say I ripped his head off and held it over my head so I could drink his sweet blood. Which is vampirism not cannibalism as there's no flesh being consumed. 

The ONLY thing that's implied that's odd is that Anders as Vengeance liked the taste of blood quite a lot. That's it. That's no where near what you are trying to make it out to be. 

Modifié par Eshaye, 16 février 2011 - 03:41 .

[upsettingshorts]

Eshaye wrote...

Heavily? Hardly.

What else does "eaten flesh" imply?

And the only reason I didn't go with explicitly confirmed is that it doesn't describe Anders chewing and swallowing.

For the last time though, I am not suggesting people dismiss Anders because of the short story.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 février 2011 - 03:32 .

[panamakira]

I agree in that the whole "eating flesh" thing in the Anders story indicated how ugly and dangerous it is for a mage to be possessed by a corrupted spirit. I think the writer wanted to portray just how dangerous Vengeance is and how much Anders was not in control at the moment of possession and at the knowledge of betrayal.



Plus after everything is dead Anders comes back to reality and witnesses just what Vengeance did and he feels the sorrow of what happened to his friend and the realization he may not belong anywhere.



The fact that Hawke finds Anders healing people and what not is him trying to find a path to redeem himself and find a way to tame Vengeance inside. He did no wish for it to be corrupted or do the things it did. Yet it did and so he must fight for control and by him being a LI, Hawke can maybe tap a bit deeper and hopefully find a way to save him.

[Minxie]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Minxie18 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
But I know who Anders is, and that was not him. It only makes me want to save him more.

Well said!

Thanks! To be totally OT for a second, I've seen you posting around here and have been meaning to say that I love your avatar. ::LotS fan:: <3

LotS ftw!

[kcwME]

And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh.

I think he did actually nom on a few people.

Why doesn't it bother us? Probably because it's, y'know, a video game? We kill people all day long, etc. Like you can tell Alistair, "We're all killers."

[Taleroth]

Minxie18 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Minxie18 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
But I know who Anders is, and that was not him. It only makes me want to save him more.

Well said!

Thanks! To be totally OT for a second, I've seen you posting around here and have been meaning to say that I love your avatar. ::LotS fan:: <3

LotS ftw!

How can you act happy?!

*cries*

[Miri1984]

@ Upsetting Shorts:



1. He wasn't in control of his actions at the time.

2.IT'S A VIDEO GAME

3. From the whole "ripping the head off with his bare hands" thing I'm assuming he was using his teeth as a weapon, not sitting down with a knife and fork to delicately consume the raw flesh of his enemies (who by the way were going to BRUTALLY MURDER HIM)

4.IT'S A VIDEO GAME.

5.He is quite obviously consumed by remorse and regret at the end of the story.

[Eshaye]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Heavily? Hardly.

What else does "eaten flesh" imply?

And the only reason I didn't go with explicitly confirmed is that it doesn't describe Anders chewing and swallowing.

For the last time though, I am not suggesting people dismiss Anders because of the short story.

Edited my above post as you were writing that. 

[KBomb]

Meh, doesn't bother me actually.

[sassperella]

kcwME wrote...

And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh.

I think he did actually nom on a few people.

Why doesn't it bother us? Probably because it's, y'know, a video game? We kill people all day long, etc. Like you can tell Alistair, "We're all killers."

Vengeance and Anders are two different entities that inhabit the same shell. Just because the shell did these things, doesn't mean the Anders entity did, it was the vengeance entity. 
Two people in a car, the passenger is asleep in the back- the driver suddenly decides to veer off and run over a bunch of people, do we blame the passenger? The passenger would wake up and see the carnage, see that it was the car that had caused it but they wouldn't be to blame.

Modifié par sassperella, 16 février 2011 - 03:44 .

[Minxie]

Taleroth wrote...

Minxie18 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Minxie18 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
But I know who Anders is, and that was not him. It only makes me want to save him more.

Well said!

Thanks! To be totally OT for a second, I've seen you posting around here and have been meaning to say that I love your avatar. ::LotS fan:: <3

LotS ftw!

How can you act happy?!

*cries*

Wut?

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Heavily? Hardly.

What else does "eaten flesh" imply?

Like some of us pointed out, it could just be creative description of the way the body parts look. Not that they are literally 'eaten'.
It could also imply that they look eaten because Anders used his teeth to rip them apart, so they have bite marks. That wouldn't really be outright cannibalism if he was just killing them with his teeth, not trying to devour them.

[kcwME]

sassperella wrote...

kcwME wrote...

And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh.

I think he did actually nom on a few people.

Why doesn't it bother us? Probably because it's, y'know, a video game? We kill people all day long, etc. Like you can tell Alistair, "We're all killers."

Vengeance and Anders are two different entities that inhabit the same shell. Just because the shell did these things, doesn't mean the Anders entity did, it was the vengeance entity. 
Two people in a car, the passenger is asleep in the back- the driver suddenly decides to veer off and run over a bunch of people, do we blame the passenger?

Heh, I don't think it's quite so clear-cut but we won't really know the skinny until we play.

Lol, I meant clear cut. I had a herp-a-derp.

Modifié par kcwME, 16 février 2011 - 03:46 .

[sassperella]

kcwME wrote...

sassperella wrote...

kcwME wrote...

And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh.

I think he did actually nom on a few people.

Why doesn't it bother us? Probably because it's, y'know, a video game? We kill people all day long, etc. Like you can tell Alistair, "We're all killers."

Vengeance and Anders are two different entities that inhabit the same shell. Just because the shell did these things, doesn't mean the Anders entity did, it was the vengeance entity. 
Two people in a car, the passenger is asleep in the back- the driver suddenly decides to veer off and run over a bunch of people, do we blame the passenger?

Heh, I don't think it's quite so cut-and-paste but we won't really know the skinny until we play.

I know, it was just an illustration to show that just because it implies certain things in the story doesn't mean we can dismiss Anders as Hannibal Lectre there's more to take into consideration.

[Eshaye]

kcwME wrote...

And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh.

I think he did actually nom on a few people.

Why doesn't it bother us? Probably because it's, y'know, a video game? We kill people all day long, etc. Like you can tell Alistair, "We're all killers."

Oh snap I missed that last bit. Still first time offender, I don't expect Anders to sautee templar liver. 

[upsettingshorts]

Miri1984 wrote...

1. He wasn't in control of his actions at the time.

It's still part of his character that he has a demon that temporarily possesses him and forces him to kill and eat people.

Miri1984 wrote...

2.IT'S A VIDEO GAME
4.IT'S A VIDEO GAME.

What about my posts on this subjects makes you think I need a dose of perspective?

I framed my criticism several posts ago based on the casual dismissal of other Dragon Age 2 characters based upon far less.  

Miri1984 wrote...

3. From the whole "ripping the head off with his bare hands" thing I'm assuming he was using his teeth as a weapon, not sitting down with a knife and fork to delicately consume the raw flesh of his enemies (who by the way were going to BRUTALLY MURDER HIM)

And by the "eaten flesh" thing, I'm assuming someone ate flesh.  Is there someone else left alive at the scene other than Anders?

Miri1984 wrote...

5.He is quite obviously consumed by remorse and regret at the end of the story.

Of course.

Minxie18 wrote...

It could also imply that they look eaten because Anders used his teeth to rip them apart, so they have bite marks. That wouldn't really be outright cannibalism if he was just killing them with his teeth, not trying to devour them.

And if that isn't what is being implied?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 février 2011 - 03:50 .