6655 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatDancingTurian]

Phate Phoenix wrote...
Awesome! Now I just need Anders in glasses and he has become my dream LI.

Oh man, someone in Thedas needs to invent glasses STAT.

[pagerunner]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Phate Phoenix wrote...
Awesome! Now I just need Anders in glasses and he has become my dream LI.

Oh man, someone in Thedas needs to invent glasses STAT.

The books have references to dwarven spectacles.

Someone, get to Orzammar RIGHT NOW and pick up a pair....!

[AtreiyaN7]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Mash Mashington wrote...

So nooo, it's not cannibalism, because it was not eating with the purpose of satisfying one's hunger gdi.

Since when is the motive important?

Some cannibals consumed human flesh in order to satisfy their hunger.  Other cannibals - such as those in fiction like Hannibal Lecter - do it as part of a homocidal compulsion.  Other cannibals did it because it was part of a religious rite.  etc.

Cannibalism is the eating of other individuals of the same species.  Whether it's demon-possessed Anders munching on a Templar drumstick or great apes killing and eating each other after a battle over territory.

I'm a realist here, so in all seriousness, I do think that Anders/vengeance/Justice ate some human flesh I think here's no logical reason for that specific description being in the story unless Vegeance actually did a little nom-nom'ing while he was in control. It happened, and it was really nasty, but heh, as I recall from the final Lecter book (not counting the prequel), Hannibal & Clarice ended up together . Go figure on that one. If Clarice Starling can overlook Lecter's completely sociopathic behavior (and man, did they have a weird relationship)...wow.

The reason I'm giving him a chance is that the Anders half of the equation wasn't the one who did the nom-nom'ing  *shrug* If Anders HAD been in control and intentionally nom-nom'ed on people by choice, well, I'd lean towards putting him down actually.

Nominally funny coincidence: I watched a documentary about cannibalism a week or two ago on NGC, including segments about ritual cannibalism and so forth. Demons who enjoy feasting on human flesh were notcovered however (darn it all).

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 16 février 2011 - 06:19 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

I am totally ready for the skull****ing.

If I had quotes in my signature, this would be it.

TeenZombie wrote...

I still blame Lee for sucking the personality out of Dee when they got together.

Fat Apollo ate it.

He belonged with Starbuck anyway!   Poor Dee though, she was a nice person. *sob* @$#! 

SEE WHAT YOU DID BRINGING THAT UP!!!

*bonks everyone with an acorn*
(Mutts reference  )

[syllogi]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I'm a realist here, so in all seriousness, I do think that Anders/vengeance/Justice ate some human flesh I think here's no logical reason for that specific description being in the story unless Vegeance actually did a little nom-nom'ing while he was in control. It happened, and it was really nasty, but heh, as I recall from the final Lecter book (not counting the prequel), Hannibal & Clarice ended up together . Go figure on that one. If Clarice Starling can overlook Lecter's completely sociopathic behavior (and man, did they have a weird relationship...),

The reason I'm giving him a chance is that the Anders half of the equation wasn't the one who did the nom-nom'ing  *shrug* If Anders HAD been in control and intentionally nom-nom'ed on people by choice, well, I'd lean towards putting him down actually.

Nominally funny coincidence: I watched a documentary about cannibalism a week or two ago on NGC, including segments about ritual cannibalism and so forth. Demons who enjoy feasting on human flesh were notcovered however (darn it all).

I loved the two books and movies before Hannibal, and I was completely disappointed and disgusted by that ending.  I would not be able to "get over" a character willfully murdering innocents or eating humans.  Anders blacked out in the story.  I can get over that, and even feel sorry for him.  But I would lose all interest in him if it turned out that he was in control when doing the slaughtering, and yeah, want to put him down too.

Someone mentioned that it seems like a situation where Anders is the "bad boy", and from what we know so far, I don't see it that way.  Rather, I look at him as in dire need of help...either to get rid of Vengeance or to co-exist with it peacefully.  If I felt that he was a "bad boy" doing the kind of stuff mentioned in the story, I would turn against him, no matter how much I used to like him in Awakening.

I really hope it doesn't come to that, though.  

[AtreiyaN7]

TeenZombie wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I'm a realist here, so in all seriousness, I do think that Anders/vengeance/Justice ate some human flesh I think here's no logical reason for that specific description being in the story unless Vegeance actually did a little nom-nom'ing while he was in control. It happened, and it was really nasty, but heh, as I recall from the final Lecter book (not counting the prequel), Hannibal & Clarice ended up together . Go figure on that one. If Clarice Starling can overlook Lecter's completely sociopathic behavior (and man, did they have a weird relationship...),

The reason I'm giving him a chance is that the Anders half of the equation wasn't the one who did the nom-nom'ing  *shrug* If Anders HAD been in control and intentionally nom-nom'ed on people by choice, well, I'd lean towards putting him down actually.

Nominally funny coincidence: I watched a documentary about cannibalism a week or two ago on NGC, including segments about ritual cannibalism and so forth. Demons who enjoy feasting on human flesh were notcovered however (darn it all).

I loved the two books and movies before Hannibal, and I was completely disappointed and disgusted by that ending.  I would not be able to "get over" a character willfully murdering innocents or eating humans.  Anders blacked out in the story.  I can get over that, and even feel sorry for him.  But I would lose all interest in him if it turned out that he was in control when doing the slaughtering, and yeah, want to put him down too.

Someone mentioned that it seems like a situation where Anders is the "bad boy", and from what we know so far, I don't see it that way.  Rather, I look at him as in dire need of help...either to get rid of Vengeance or to co-exist with it peacefully.  If I felt that he was a "bad boy" doing the kind of stuff mentioned in the story, I would turn against him, no matter how much I used to like him in Awakening.

I really hope it doesn't come to that, though.  

Oops, yes - belatedly edited my post after realizing I'd forgotten to put my ellipses outside and end with "wow." I still want to know what Thomas Harris was smoking when he came up with that ending - grr. I think Hannibal was brilliant and developed some sort of attachment to Clarice, but seriously? How does she end up doing a 180 like that? *shrug* Oh well, we'll see what happens when the game comes out. I believe Anders can be helped, but if he morphs into an uncontrollable monster, umm, well...I will do what I have to do. For now though, there's still hope!

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 16 février 2011 - 06:28 .

[Miri1984]

Galagraphia again

Modifié par Miri1984, 16 février 2011 - 06:51 .

[Amagoi]

I'd really be surprised if Anders completely lost control and became a monster. The man has an amazing strength of will. But living with a Demon of Vengeance for most of a decade could drive just about anyone bonkers. So I'm also thinknig it'd be best to just take him out if he gets that bad.

It'd be horrible, but I could at least tell myself Anders would want it that way. I know Justice would want to be stopped. I could see something like that being a companion quest for him later on.

And that's a really cool graphic Miri!  Though whenever I see that line, for some reason I think of Guilty Gear's Justice... weird.

Modifié par Amagoi, 16 février 2011 - 07:13 .

[namedforthemoon]

Miri1984 wrote...

kcwME wrote...

Maybe it's too spoilery? Gaider did mention some "freaky stuff".

Ooh, did he? Where? *all intrigued now* *goes to the LI thread* 

I'm curious about said "freaky stuff", too.

[Seventh H3ll]

makalathbonagin wrote...


what!?!?! i don't even ...

[Selenora]

catabuca wrote...

My first character/game in rpgs is usually a bit derpy. I make mistakes, end up with a terrible build, miss all sorts of things, do things in a counter-intuitive order, and generally end up getting to the end and starting over immediately.

you remind me of...me

[Selenora]

Miri1984 wrote...

not sitting down with a knife and fork to delicately consume the raw flesh of his enemies 

Omg...lmao....

[Deathispink]

This is the first part of the fic I've been writing as a smushy, fuzzy epilogue for my Warden that would explain her allowing what happened to Anders. Let me know what y'all think




One Last Thing

 

 

                Anders hated[/i] coming here. That mage Avernus
was… just plain creepy[/i], but Soldier’s
Peak made Vigil’s Keep seem homey by comparison. Sure there were little Drydens
running around everywhere on the grounds, but the closer one got to Avernus’s
damn hidey-hole in the tower, the greater the sense of impending doom.  But he had a job to do today, and he was not
going to give up on his cause because the place gave him the heebie-jeebies.
Niamh Surana, the Warden Commander, and, more importantly, his friend was being
forced to resign from her post at Vigil’s Keep in just a few weeks to make room
for a “less controversial” Commander from Orlais. Before she left, Anders
wanted to give her something that no one else could, and Avernus was the only
one in the world who might be able to help him do it.

 

                The
idea had come to him after the most recent of King Alistair’s visits to the
Keep, a little more than a month ago. Niamh stood at the ramparts waving like
an idiot as the royal procession made its way down the road leading to a
rejuvenated Amaranthine. Anders stood behind her, watching as the forced jubilance
became sorrow once there was absolutely no chance of the King seeing her. The
relationship between the two Grey Wardens who had saved Ferelden was an open
secret at this point, but the two of them thought they were being quite subtle,
pah! They obviously didn’t realize what a racket they made whenever they roomed
together. At least it was quite a racket when you had the unfortunate situation
of being forced to sleep in the room underneath theirs.

Looking as disinterested as he
possibly could, Anders had unceremoniously blurted out the following,

 “You know, the two of you should just get
married already.” If only there had been some way to capture Niamh’s face at
that moment. Perfectly posed between horrified and wistful, it was quite
amusing to watch the, usually unshakable, mage turn a most appealing shade of
crimson. She was speechless for a few, for her at least, breathless moments
before she tried to cobble together some sort of denial.

“What!? N...no! What are you
talking about? We’re just friends!” Anders cocked an eyebrow. “No! Really! What
could ever make you think…?”

“I have the room underneath yours.”
Niamh’s eyes got big for a moment before she slumped against the wall behind
her, making a grudging sound conceding defeat. Anders walked over to lean next
to her. “It seems to me that a King should have the liberty to wed whomever he
chooses, be they elf, mage, or accomplice to wily apostates.” Her mouth
twitched into what may have been a smile, “Kings have married worse you know. I
remember there being one Nevarran king in particular that had three wives, two
were his sisters and the other was his horse. “He gently took hold of her chin
and directed her gaze to him. “ And you, my dearest Commander, are certainly
not a horse. So what’s the problem? And don’t you dare say that the people
would never accept you, without you they wouldn’t have a country at all.” Niamh
gently grabbed his wrist and pushed his hand away from her, choosing to stare
pointedly at a cracked stone at her feet.

“Even if the people could[/i] accept an elf mage as their
monarch, I could never be so selfish. 
Alistair is the last member of the Theirin line, he needs to have
children to succeed him, “She raised a hand to silence Anders’s objection.” If
he doesn’t, the country will fall into disarray again, perhaps even another
civil war. As much as I love him, I love my country too much to be the cause of
that. It’ll be hard enough for him to procreate with an untainted human woman.
The chance of two Grey Wardens having children with one another…it would take
an intervention of the Maker himself.” She stood to her full, diminutive,
height and put on her best ‘Commander’ face before walking away from him. “Now
if you’ll excuse me, I was told to expect a very important messenger from
Weisshaupt this evening, and I do wish to look my most intimidating.” With
that, she left. Anders stared after her for a while before becoming lost in his
own thoughts.

If
that’s the only thing holding her back…There has got to be a way, magical or
otherwise, that could overcome this little hurdle! [/i]

It wasn’t until the next day, when
the announcement was made that Niamh would be stepping down, did Anders decide
that maybe, just maybe, that the Maker’s intervention could take the form of
one stubborn apostate who wanted to see his dear friend truly get everything
she deserved.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Anders in that short story in unstobbale.

He killed a whole squad of templars there were ready for him AND several grey wardens.

And you can bet that in the game, he will NOT be that powerfull, for balance reasons. I hate gameplay and story segregation. What's the point of coming up with a massively powerfull character?


Speaking of which...the word betrayl has been uttered, when talking about the ex-templar grey warden. Betrayl is a matter of perspective.
Anders betrayed the Grey Wardens, the Chantry and humanity by allowing himself to be possesed.

EDIT:

Interestng. Anders drank darkspawn blood. and grey warden blood. And is possesed by vengance (never heard of that spirit/demon before). I wouldn't be surprised to find he was bitten by a radioactive spider at this point, to boot.

and anders romance? You go to bed with him only to have Vengance suddenly ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL!

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 16 février 2011 - 08:59 .

[Jenova65]

Threeparts wrote...

I honestly don't find cannibalism particularly bothersome. It isn't a squick of mine and I've never really grasped why it's such a great taboo, but I do understand why and how it's used for emotional impact in fiction and things like news stories. I certainly find murder, torture and rape far worse than eating the remains of another human.

I understand that it's being used in the story to emphasise that Vengeance is not nice, Vengeance is not tame. Vengeance will **** your **** up. And it doesn't make me wary of the character, but interested. He's not going to jump out of the screen and gnaw on my face, and I haven't yet met him as Hawke. I don't want to meta-game that knowledge into her story. If he never does it again and never tells her about it, then I won't let it affect my game. If it's a recurring theme, I'll deal with it as it's presented.

I'm curious as to how it will affect Anders and what repercussions he'll suffer, but it doesn't bother me as a player, no.

Meh........ me either tbh. And frankly as a vegetarian it makes me ROFL that people are all  about it  I got no problem with him having a 'hand sandwich' (see what I did there? ) I certainly agree that some of things you mention seem not to inspire the same 'ick', factor when they should.
The grey wardens drink the blood of the darkspawn, what's that then? Some poor broodmum is sitting crying somewhere over her poor little genlock baby who never came home, little Rodney, how she weeps for him........................ 
Clearly I jest, but DA is supposed to be a dark fantasy......  
Even the whole vengeance thing tbh, is not that big of a deal in this setting. Also 'Vengeance', = ''the act of taking revenge (harming someone in retaliation for something harmful that they have done)'' 
The act of revenge is not the same as the act of cold blooded murder which many Templars have engaged in, in the name of the chantry. I mean there are players out there who agreed to right of annulment at the circle, right?
I am just saying there is an issue of balance which seems to lacking in the judgements that are happening here of Anders 
The most important thing as far as I see it, is to judge in context of the game world, not in context of our world, where it would definitely put a bit of a halt on any feelings of romance I had for a man............ The Dragon Age characters have seen things we will (hopefully, lol) never see and their reality is different to ours, their tolerances reflect that................................. imo........................... 

Modifié par Jenova65, 16 février 2011 - 11:06 .

[Jenova65]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Anders in that short story in unstobbale.

He killed a whole squad of templars there were ready for him AND several grey wardens.

And you can bet that in the game, he will NOT be that powerfull, for balance reasons. I hate gameplay and story segregation. What's the point of coming up with a massively powerfull character?


Speaking of which...the word betrayl has been uttered, when talking about the ex-templar grey warden. Betrayl is a matter of perspective.
Anders betrayed the Grey Wardens, the Chantry and humanity by allowing himself to be possesed.

EDIT:

Interestng. Anders drank darkspawn blood. and grey warden blood. And is possesed by vengance (never heard of that spirit/demon before). I wouldn't be surprised to find he was bitten by a radioactive spider at this point, to boot.

and anders romance? You go to bed with him only to have Vengance suddenly ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL!

I believe this explains that
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutscenePowerToTheMax
And sorry, btw, I normally hate people who link to tropes cos you end up there for hours............ 

[Miri1984]

@Jenova65 I won't link to it, but Anders definitely *took a level in badass*.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Jenova65 wrote...

The grey wardens drink the blood of the darkspawn, what's that then? Some poor broodmum is sitting crying somewhere over her poor little genlock baby who never came home, little Rodney, how she weeps for him

LOL'd. So hard.

Also, curses! Not TVTropes! ::runs away before she's snared by its pull!::

[Jenova65]

@Miri, lol, thanks but I still ended up there anyway................ *may be gone for sometime* Gah..... d*mn you tropes...............

[Jenova65]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

The grey wardens drink the blood of the darkspawn, what's that then? Some poor broodmum is sitting crying somewhere over her poor little genlock baby who never came home, little Rodney, how she weeps for him

LOL'd. So hard.

Also, curses! Not TVTropes! ::runs away before she's snared by its pull!::

B*gger, it was supposed to make you feel sad............. Knew I shouldn't have named him Rodney.......... <_<;)

[Lotion Soronarr]

It also downed on me that short story confirms lyrium DOES enhance templar abilities..



So much for it only being Chantry lies.

[themageguy]

what spells will ur anders delve into? Im definitely going elemental and spirit and spirit healer of course.

[HolyJellyfish]

To be frank, I LOVED Hepler's short story SO MUCH. It was twisted, dark, beautiful, and sad. It reminded me of Hellsing, of Jekyl & Hyde, Frankenstein, etc. A monster was present, and Anders was unable to control it. It was very deep and carried a lot of symbollic weight.

Then again, I dig a good horror.

Anders was not in control of himself. Its not like he is a maniac. He isn't. He is two entirely different people within the same form. He is, essentially, Jekyl & Hyde. His intentions were good but his raw feelings corrupted what was meant to be a good deed. That is what makes his story tragic and his character appealing as LI.

Anders is not a cannibal. He had absolutely no control over the situation. When he came to his senses, he freaked out and didn't understand what exactly happened.

That's like telling me that someone who was tied down and force-fed another person is a cannibal. They aren't. What they did was cannibalistic, but they themselves are not cannibals. It was against their will.

Vengeance, on the other hand, could be a cannibal but its difficult to say since he was using his host to consume other beings - however Vengeance is still a demon, and not human, and since he was in control and not consuming his own kind, he also is not a cannibal. I digress.

What Anders did was cannibalistic. Anders himself is not a cannibal however.

Is he going to be a truly disturbing LI? Of course. But isn't a dark, sad, heart breaking, tragic, twisted romance usually central to a fantasy plot or story? Look at Morrigan.