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[Miri1984]

@Shephard Lives from what Cassandra is saying at the beginning of the game the Chantry's in a he'll of a lot of trouble no matter what you do. I'm actually wondering if you'll get a choice in that regard.

[Shepard Lives]

Miri1984 wrote...

@Shephard Lives from what Cassandra is saying at the beginning of the game the Chantry's in a he'll of a lot of trouble no matter what you do. I'm actually wondering if you'll get a choice in that regard.

I doubt Bioware would take away choice from the player in such an important matter. It's possible, but highly unlikely.
I'm starting to think the Chantry might need Hawke's help because they're threatened by an outside force.

[Amagoi]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

LOVING the fake banter. I don't know about Carver/Merrill, but I like the idea of Anders getting involved in Carver's love life.

Anders: Hawke, we have to do something about your brother.
Hawke: I know you and Carver aren't exactly hitting it off, but he's been through a lot. Give the kid a break.
Anders: What? No, it's not that. It's his situation with women.
Hawke: What "situation" would that be?
Anders: Surely you've seen it! It's impossible to miss the awkward stares, the stuttering, the fidgeting, the twitching...
Hawke: I'm not sure why this is any of our business.
Anders: How can it not be? It's gotten so that I'm embarrassed to be seen with him. ... Well, more so than usual. One time Isabela asked him if he wanted a 'roll in the hay' and he actually said, [does a Carver impression] "I don't think there's any hay around here!"
Hawke: That's your best Carver?
Anders: The point is, the man has absolutely no game. I tried to teach him a few of my finely developed skills, but he's just so stubborn he wouldn't have any of it.
Hawke: "Finely developed"?
Anders: Maybe I should get him a cat, that always works.
Hawke: "Always"???

This is great! The twitching part made me a bit snarky, I remembered in Awakening when Sigrun said that Justice was twitching a lot, and she wanted to set him to music. I wonder if that carries over to Anders? Or if it was just a corpse thing?

I love the idea of Anders' rivalry quest being an exorcism. Mostly for the richness of refrences that could be used. I just want to see Hawke say afterwards; "This house is clean."

[ReallyRue]

Do you think Anders changes in appearance when Vengeance takes over? I don't mean like in conversation, but in situations like the short story, where Anders loses control. Because the other people in DA who have been possessed tend to transform when the demon decides to battle, for instance Connor changes into the desire demon, Uldred and the Baroness both change into pride demons for the purpose of battle. If he does change, do you think Vengeance has a specific model, or would he just be a shadowy version of Justice in the Fade?

Shepard Lives wrote...

Apollo Starflare wrote...

However, (and I am guessing this has already been discussed looking at this threads page count already but) is anyone else concerned about whether we can 'redeem' Justice? I quite liked him in DAOA as well and find myself hoping that there will be some way to get the old Justice back.

I suspect Anders' final fate will vary depending on your relationship with him.
If you pursue Friendship ("I agree Anders, we should blow up that Chantry over there!") the demon ends up taking over, or something like that; whereas if you go Rivalry (Anders: "Let's blow up that Chantry!" Hawke: "Hell, no". *slaps Anders*) you may confront Vengeance and kick his arse out of Anders, or turn him into Justice again, or whatever.

I'm tempted to pursue a rivalry path with him just for that exchange. Can't imagine Vengeance would be impressed.

[Starflower2525]

I am also tempted to pursue a rivalry path with Anders just to see what happens.

[ThatDancingTurian]

I'm doing the friendship path first because I can't imagine my mage Hawke wanting to protect the Chantry or the templars. I'm also doing it first because I have the sneaking suspicion that the rivalry romances might be a little less substantial than the friendship path. I could be wrong, but that's just a feeling I'm getting.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 18 février 2011 - 07:49 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Shepard Lives wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

@Shephard Lives from what Cassandra is saying at the beginning of the game the Chantry's in a he'll of a lot of trouble no matter what you do. I'm actually wondering if you'll get a choice in that regard.

I doubt Bioware would take away choice from the player in such an important matter. It's possible, but highly unlikely.
I'm starting to think the Chantry might need Hawke's help because they're threatened by an outside force.

Yeah. I'm under the impression that it is far more than the chantry. That Kirkwall is undergoing a revolution, seeing as each of your companions has deep ties to the larger club houses / circuits listed in the blog. Dwarf surface marchants & spy network, city guard, Elven alienage, Raiders of Waking Sea.... I think it is going to go way beyond the Chantry, however the chantry will definitely be in trouble since it relies on the lower status of Elves, Dwarves, and Mages in order to maintain its status quo.

[HolyJellyfish]

ReallyRue wrote...

Shepard Lives wrote...


I suspect Anders' final fate will vary depending on your relationship with him.
If you pursue Friendship ("I agree Anders, we should blow up that Chantry over there!") the demon ends up taking over, or something like that; whereas if you go Rivalry (Anders: "Let's blow up that Chantry!" Hawke: "Hell, no". *slaps Anders*) you may confront Vengeance and kick his arse out of Anders, or turn him into Justice again, or whatever.

I'm tempted to pursue a rivalry path with him just for that exchange. Can't imagine Vengeance would be impressed.

Or perhaps, as many people suspect, the Chantry does get destroyed and/or removed one way or the other? It just depends on HOW you wish to remove it.

Friend / Vengeance path : You BURN THE PLACE DOWN

Rival / Justice path : You allow the templars to leave in peace without bloodshed - diplomacy.

[Jennifer Brandes Hepler]

As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works, is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what *they* want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but definitely don't think of friendship as doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around.

[Taleroth]

Thank you Ms. Hepler. That is actually very interesting to know.

[HolyJellyfish]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works, is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what *they* want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but definitely don't think of friendship as doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around.

I was actually wondering. Is the Rivalry/Friend system based entirely on Aggressive & Diplomatic decisions? Or do sarcastic replies also have some weight into it? And, will a rivalry path for a single character always depend on Aggressive(or Diplomatic) decisions, or are they pretty well mixed?

[Minxie]

Ms. Hepler! Would you be so kind as to tell us whether the 'eaten' line in Anders' story was literal or figurative? It would really help the discussions around here if that could be clarified. Pretty please? :innocent:

[HolyJellyfish]

Minxie18 wrote...

Ms. Hepler! Would you be so kind as to tell us whether the 'eaten' line in Anders' story was literal or figurative? It would really help the discussions around here if that could be clarified. Pretty please? :innocent:

I think its pretty clear there was eating happening. In DA:O there was feastin' goin' round all around by Hepler's pen. I'm under the impression that if Hepler's writing, someone gets eaten.

I'm looking at you Bethany.

totes gonna be a brood mother. just you wait.

[Minxie]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Minxie18 wrote...

Ms. Hepler! Would you be so kind as to tell us whether the 'eaten' line in Anders' story was literal or figurative? It would really help the discussions around here if that could be clarified. Pretty please? :innocent:

I think its pretty clear there was eating happening. In DA:O there was feastin' goin' round all around by Hepler's pen. I'm under the impression that if Hepler's writing, someone gets eaten.

I'm looking at you Bethany.

totes gonna be a brood mother. just you wait.

I shudder to think.

[HolyJellyfish]

Minxie18 wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Minxie18 wrote...

Ms. Hepler! Would you be so kind as to tell us whether the 'eaten' line in Anders' story was literal or figurative? It would really help the discussions around here if that could be clarified. Pretty please? :innocent:

I think its pretty clear there was eating happening. In DA:O there was feastin' goin' round all around by Hepler's pen. I'm under the impression that if Hepler's writing, someone gets eaten.

I'm looking at you Bethany.

totes gonna be a brood mother. just you wait.

I shudder to think.

It will be OUTSTANDING fodder though, just sayin'. To all those peeps getting weird, talking about incest mods and going down on why Bethany isn't an LI and how silly Bioware is for not making an LI as attractive as bethany..

.. Just you wait. She'll be a broodmother, and whenever one of those people pops up glorifying Bethany's breasts, WHAMMO! Screencaps. "Lolz, you are sooo right. She does have a great rack, or rather, four of them. Bethany Broodmomma for LI!"

I will be happy for life.

[ReallyRue]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works, is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what *they* want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but definitely don't think of friendship as doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around.

Oh, that adds an interesting angle to it. So you might be more helpful to them if you contradict their beliefs and aims, even if they resent you for it. This friendship/rivalry thing is definitely going to be more interesting than love/hate.

[SurelyForth]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works, is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what *they* want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but definitely don't think of friendship as doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around.

Yessss. This reminds me of Garrus' loyalty mission, thus adding another coat of awesome to my excitement over the friendship/rivalry system.

Ugh, March 8th. Why do you have to be so many days away?

[Jennifer Brandes Hepler]

The short story is about the first time Vengeance takes over. Anders is totally unprepared for what was going to happen, so it's a bit more... graphic and extreme... than it becomes when he actively tries to control it. Not that he always succeeds at controlling Vengeance, by any means, but he's at least putting up a fair fight.

[Minxie]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

The short story is about the first time Vengeance takes over. Anders is totally unprepared for what was going to happen, so it's a bit more... graphic and extreme... than it becomes when he actively tries to control it. Not that he always succeeds at controlling Vengeance, by any means, but he's at least putting up a fair fight.

So did Vengeance!Anders eat eat them or was he just using his teeth to rip them apart? I was also really curious about whether or not Anders physically transformed in that moment? (I was thinking along the lines of the Slayer from BGII)

Thank you for responding, btw!

Modifié par Minxie18, 18 février 2011 - 08:46 .

[Phate Phoenix]

EDIT: Whoops!

Modifié par Phate Phoenix, 18 février 2011 - 08:49 .

[Phate Phoenix]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works, is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what *they* want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but definitely don't think of friendship as doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around.

I'm actually very glad to hear that. I was a little worried (not a lot, but enough) that the companions in DA2 would be like in ME2: either they were for ~NICE~ (Paragon) or the ~MEAN~ (Renegade) Hawke/Shep. Sounds like the relationships with them will be... deeper than that. More individualized.

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

The short story is about the first time Vengeance takes over. Anders is totally unprepared for what was going to happen, so it's a bit more... graphic and extreme... than it becomes when he actively tries to control it. Not that he always succeeds at controlling Vengeance, by any means, but he's at least putting up a fair fight.

So... that'd be a "yes" on the whole eating-people thing. On one hand, awesome. On the other, poor Anders.

Modifié par Phate Phoenix, 18 février 2011 - 08:49 .

[panamakira]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

The short story is about the first time Vengeance takes over. Anders is totally unprepared for what was going to happen, so it's a bit more... graphic and extreme... than it becomes when he actively tries to control it. Not that he always succeeds at controlling Vengeance, by any means, but he's at least putting up a fair fight.

Thank you! It does make sense. To think the first time was "ugly", and I mean ugly like stuff got eaten and insanity reigned over that moment when the "posession" happened but I'm relieved to know Anders is at least attempting to fight it! Some were assuming he was just becoming a cannibal or something but I think the short story portrayed how much Anders was not in control at that moment and how much he's struggling to keep Vengeance at peace.

As for the friendship and rivalry thing, that makes so much sense now when it was mentioned that you could have rivalry/love relationships. I mean if Lady Hawke does not agree with one of the characters because she thinks what they're doing it's going to harm them or that character in the long run, I can see how the rivalry will build up. Hmm....that system is most definetly interesting.

[leggywillow]

I have a question for Mrs. Hepler (or any dev who may be reading).  Was Anders (and subsequently Justice) always intended for DA2?  Or was it more like "Hey, this guy's cool and lot of people liked him in Awakening, why don't we stick him in DA2?"

[Miri1984]

Thank you Ms Hepler! On both fronts! I thought as much. And it might be interesting to see exactly how extreme Anders and Vengeance actually want to get - he did say at one stage in Awakenings that he wanted to ability to "rain fire on every Templar in existence" which was BEFORE Justice came into the equation!

[ThatDancingTurian]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

As a general rule, the way friendship and rivalry works, is that friendship means agreeing with and supporting the follower in what *they* want to do, no matter how crazy, illogical or dangerous to self and others. Rivalry means opposing their big cause, often for the right reasons. So it's very possible to be a better friend to someone by choosing the rivalry path, since you're trying to stop them from giving in to their own self-destructive whims. It's not always the most intuitive, but definitely don't think of friendship as doing the "right" thing and rivalry as doing the "bad" thing. It's just as likely to be the other way around.

I see... Well that complicates my choices a bit. Especially since I'd wanted to play an anti-templar apostate before I even knew Anders was returning. I hope it's not a situation where in order to save him I have to have him on the rivalry path, because I don't intend to be pro-templar and I'd rather not make Anders angry with me. Hopefully if rivalry is the necessary path to salvation, I can accomplish it simply by having my character try to curb his more destructive ways while not necessarily taking the complete opposite side of the argument.

@Surely: The Garrus mission is an excellent paralel. I always, always save Sidonis, even though I love Garrus. Sometimes tough love is what's needed. <3