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[Sabriel.]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Amagoi wrote...

That's what I'm thinking. It doesn't seem in Anders' personality to heal these people for a self-serving purpose, like to gain a better reputation for apostate mages to help him bring down the circle. I'm thinking it was a situation he just kind of fell into.

If there's one thing Kirkwall has in great suppy: it's refugees. We all know that with refugees come bad living conditions, and from that a good bit of in-fighting and disease spreading. Anders may look out for himself most of the time, but in Awakening it seemed obvious that if he would always try to help others if he can.

I'm sure guilt plays into it too, but I see him doing it when we find him just because it's the best way for him to help innocents that are suffering, and maybe he doesn't know what else to do with himself right now.

Good point. Anders has never seemed like the type to make any concrete plans, I wouldn't be surprised if him working there started with healing one or two people and it just snowballed.

I think you're onto something with that--though I also think Anders might be more compassionate than he lets on. (ex: with Roland at the beginning of Awakening, or near the end when he supports defending Amaranthine, etc.) Not excessively so, but I don't think he ever was all about looking out for #1 either. 

This is (obviously) a very complex issue and all this speculating just makes me want the game to get here sooner. >.>

[ThatDancingTurian]

Mynnymac wrote...

This is (obviously) a very complex issue and all this speculating just makes me want the game to get here sooner. >.>

That we can definitely agree on!

I think the fact that he has essentially two personalities now -- both of which sort of collided and then broke apart into something new -- makes speculation about even the smallest things much harder. Hopefully it will ultimately make him a richer and more multifaceted character. <3

[Threeparts]

As he's been studying spirit healing since he was at the tower, I think he's always had a compassionate side to him, even if it's not always obvious. He was horrified at what Velanna did to the merchants, hated the idea of leaving Amaranthine to burn, he felt sympathy for Nathaniel, and, of course, there's Pounce.
He might brush it off with humour or sarcasm, but I honestly don't think he could ignore someone injured or ill if they asked for help and it were in his power to aid them, so falling into working at an infirmary makes sense to me too. Even if he's stayed there as a penance for lives taken, it gives me hope that of all the things J/V has done, he hasn't changed that compassionate side of Anders.

It's kind of amusing that he's both selfish and selfless at the same time. He avoided confronting the Circle to preserve his own skin, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Templars had caught up to him during an escape attempt because he'd stopped to help someone in need.

Modifié par Threeparts, 21 février 2011 - 05:19 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Threepart.

I agree, I think Anders is at heart a very compassionate and empathetic person and I think that's what made him (and justice) vulnerable to possession / transformation. There is only one place where he did not display much compassion / empathy and that's vis a vis the baroness. Nate hates the idea of fighting the rioters. Anders doesn't mind. Of course I do not think that siding with the Baroness, in those circumstances to be "evil" or "bad". That's my canonical choice. But Anders' pragmatism was not accompanied by a bit of sadness. Granted, it could be limited dialogues.

[Miri1984]

@KOP TBH I saw the Baronness thing as being a bit out of character for him. But he could just have been ****scared, I suppose.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Miri1984 wrote...

@KOP TBH I saw the Baronness thing as being a bit out of character for him. But he could just have been ****scared, I suppose.

I don't think he was scarred. I think he was impressed and pragmatic.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Filament wrote...

OT, but: You can side with the Baroness? Do you still have to fight her at the end?

No, you have to fight the rioters, the First and Justice. She fullfills her end of the bargain.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 février 2011 - 05:34 .

[Miri1984]

I never sided with the Baroness - despite my inbuilt desire to do everything Anders suggests. I like Justice too much. It's so cute how he comes in and says "RIGHT, you guys have been INJUSTICED and I'm going to fix that for you! Despite knowing none of the facts!"

[Miri1984]

Nope, couldn't side with the architect. Tried to switch off metagaming the first time but couldn't. Probably shouldn't have read the Calling before I played Awakenings.

[Sabriel.]

Miri1984 wrote...

I never sided with the Baroness - despite my inbuilt desire to do everything Anders suggests. I like Justice too much. It's so cute how he comes in and says "RIGHT, you guys have been INJUSTICED and I'm going to fix that for you! Despite knowing none of the facts!"

Oh, I know! xD That kind of makes me think "Vengeance" is simply Justice, just with a little more....I don't know. Perspective? Or just the other extreme from Justice, that works too.

[Morroian]

deleted.

Modifié par Morroian, 21 février 2011 - 06:10 .

[syllogi]

Miri1984 wrote...

Nope, couldn't side with the architect. Tried to switch off metagaming the first time but couldn't. Probably shouldn't have read the Calling before I played Awakenings.

I couldn't do it either, and I still felt some sympathy for the Architect, after reading the Calling.  But I reckoned my Warden would not be interested in making deals like that, after everything she's been through.  Out of all my characters, my mage Amell should have been the one to do the US...she would not have trusted Morrigan, if roleplayed strictly.  But the deal with the Architect was less murky, for her.

I wonder if the events of Awakening will play much of a role in DA2, since we have Anders and a cameo by Nathaniel.

[Poquimo]

Miri1984 wrote...

Nope, couldn't side with the architect. Tried to switch off metagaming the first time but couldn't. Probably shouldn't have read the Calling before I played Awakenings.

I sided with him the first time just out of curiousity, but then after I found out what happened in the Calling and wha the brood mother tells you before you fight her I was like "DDD8 what have I DONE"
so now I never side with him

[Threeparts]

I've mixed it up a bit with my warden runs, depending on the character. They don't necessarily have to be morally doubtful, either: I had one character that sided with him simply because she believed all creatures should be free from oppression (yes, she was annoyingly self-righteous), and the darkspawn being bound was a form of slavery. I should probably get around to reading The Calling, though.
I usually figure that if it all turns to ****, my Grey Wardens are badass enough to hunt him down later on. 

I did find Anders' thoughts on the Baroness interesting, but I don't remember the exact conversation. Wasn't he reluctant about opposing such a powerful entity, but could be persuaded to agree? I think that would come under self-preservation: he was already unhappy about being in the Fade at all, let alone facing down what seemed like a sorceress powerful enough to keep an entire village enchanted for years. That's enough for me to want to stay on her good side. 

Modifié par Threeparts, 21 février 2011 - 07:41 .

[Miri1984]

@Threeparts the conversation goes something like this :

Warden: I think we should kill the baroness.

Anders: He just said she was an incredibly powerful mage, do we really want to antagonise her?



Then you have the option of persuading him it's a good idea, in which case he's all gung ho, or saying "Why not, it'll be fun?" Which results in the gorgeous (but approval negative)



"This "fun" you're talking about looks a bit more like "stupid" from over here."

[Threeparts]

Miri1984 wrote...

@Threeparts the conversation goes something like this :
Warden: I think we should kill the baroness.
Anders: He just said she was an incredibly powerful mage, do we really want to antagonise her?

Then you have the option of persuading him it's a good idea, in which case he's all gung ho, or saying "Why not, it'll be fun?" Which results in the gorgeous (but approval negative)

"This "fun" you're talking about looks a bit more like "stupid" from over here."

Haha, I remember that line. The bastard.

Since we're headed back to the Deep Roads, courtesy of Anders' map, I do hope we'll see a resurgence of his claustrophobia. It gave an extra aspect to his character and I'll be sad if it got overlooked. Also hoping to hear more about his pre-Tower life and escape attempts, and maybe a reference to a certain young, fastidious mage we met in Witch Hunt.

And now I've just come up with a hook for his possible bi-LI reveal. Huh. There's a thought.

Any topics you guys would like to see brought up with him again? What happened at Vigil's Keep, how he got to Kirkwall, what he did to set fire to the barn?


@distinguetraces: Too true about the Broodmothers, good point. It would be nice if they could use their new-found sentience to discover a more natural way of procreating, or make the choice to simply die out. The latter is, I suppose, next to impossible; it would go against all instincts, as much as the people of Thedas might like it. But the Architect has the intelligence to discover different options if anyone does.
Still, broodmothers. Eurgh.

Modifié par Threeparts, 21 février 2011 - 08:37 .

[Miri1984]

I want to know about his Tower life, although maybe not too much because I want to write a story of his Tower life for the Bioware Bang . Also want to know about his childhood. Heck, I want to know everything.

[ReallyRue]

distinguetraces wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...
Nope, couldn't side with the architect. [...] Probably shouldn't have read the Calling before I played Awakenings.

I haven't read The Calling, and he sure as heck got the chop from me.

Nothing the Architect is trying to do will alter the fact that darkspawn, Blight or no Blight, need to kidnap and torture women in order to reproduce. What kind of lunatic would do anything to help make the production of broodmothers more rational and organized?

And at least when the last two (?) archdemons are dead, then the Blights will presumably be over. Making darkspawn sentient could create an entirely new set of problems that's even harder to wipe out. After all, the Blights are mainly a threat because the archdemon is directing the usually mindless darkspawn. If they all have minds then it could be like a permanent Blight, which no clear solution.

About Anders, personally I'm hoping we find out exactly why he was so desperate to escape the tower again and again, not to mention why the templars were lenient on him (by which I mean they didn't execute him or permanently imprison him). Not to mention about his life before the Circle and how he felt when he was brought there. I was always interested in hearing that from Wynne.

[Wynne]

ankuu wrote...

I'll post this here too ^^

[smilie]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_a052NG1ztpg/TWGJ1VlQkGI/AAAAAAAAAjY/z21lAElusK4/Movie_xvid.gif[/smilie]

MAKER! The sheer amount of win! I-- *steals gif and gives ankuu a big 'ol hug*

Modifié par Wynne, 21 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[ZeroDotZero]

TeenZombie wrote...

I wonder if the events of Awakening will play much of a role in DA2, since we have Anders and a cameo by Nathaniel.

We have a cameo by Nathaniel? When was this announced?

[Shepard Lives]

ZeroDotZero wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

I wonder if the events of Awakening will play much of a role in DA2, since we have Anders and a cameo by Nathaniel.

We have a cameo by Nathaniel? When was this announced?

It was very strongly implied by Laidlaw in one of the first threads asking for Nathaniel to reappear.
Someone said "He even mentions Kirkwall in ambient comments, it's like they planned this" and Laidlaw said "Yeah, we planned this."

[Eshaye]

ReallyRue wrote...
About Anders, personally I'm hoping we find out exactly why he was so desperate to escape the tower again and again, not to mention why the templars were lenient on him (by which I mean they didn't execute him or permanently imprison him). Not to mention about his life before the Circle and how he felt when he was brought there. I was always interested in hearing that from Wynne.

He was harrowed, I think there's a circle rule that you can't just execute a harrowed mage but bring them back. If I remember it right, then Anders says: "Bet they regret THAT rule now, heh?" Or something to that effect. XD 

Looks like I might be the only Architect sympathizer here, I always got the impression he was trying to end the blights forever and evolve his 'people'. His methods may not be 100% moral but neither is Avernus, or the Grey Wardens, or the Chantry with their exalted marches, and Tevinter is responsible for the whole mess. Throughout Origins we slaughter darkspawn left and right, because yes they are trying to kill us, but we never feel bad about it because they are monsters, but think of them as a people and it becomes a little different. 

Have to admit I let him go out of curiosity, and my warden learned mercy throughout her trials. It might end up costing Ferelden a lot, but it might end up causing a change for the better. The end of Witch Hunt also makes me think I chose well. Sort of whether or not to save the Rachni queen in Mass Effect... 

Modifié par Eshaye, 21 février 2011 - 03:04 .