6655 réponses à ce sujet

[sangy]

Anders was probably the only one I did not want to see come back from all the party members. He was annoying. I was bummed out in DAA that I had to keep him around as a healer. I guess I didn't have to but I didn't have a full party at that point yet either.



Oghren and I wanted to shank him and toss him in the river...but we let it slide.



"He's not the same Anders you remember". Lets hope so.

[phantomdragoness]

Nahhh, I'm excited that Anders is returning. He was the one guy in Awakenings I would have romanced if it was an option. I love rough looking guys - and Anders had the scruffiness and the long hair in a pony tail...



Sorry, had a momentary mind ****.



And on a somewhat earlier topic...his hands...I'm in love with his hands.



Dr. Anders can give me a check-up ANY time. XD

[hobbit of the shire]

I'm happy that Anders is returning. I thought he was funny and cute (Alistair grown up and realistic). But if it's true that he voluntarily let Justice assume his body, I see that totally out of character. I'm extremely curious about the story and how he ended up that way. I can see how Alistair might let himself be a host out of the kindness of his heart, but I thought Anders had a strong sense of self.

[nenosronhir]

hobbit_of_the_shire wrote...

I'm happy that Anders is returning. I thought he was funny and cute (Alistair grown up and realistic). But if it's true that he voluntarily let Justice assume his body, I see that totally out of character. I'm extremely curious about the story and how he ended up that way. I can see how Alistair might let himself be a host out of the kindness of his heart, but I thought Anders had a strong sense of self.

... I always knew I wouldn't submit. I could never be what they wanted from me -- compliant, obedient, guilty. But before Justice, I was alone. I never thought beyond my own escape: Where would I hide? How long before they found me?

Now, even that thought repulses me. Why should so many others live with what I will not? Why must the Circle of Magi stand? Just because it always has, just because those who read Andraste's words twisted them to mean that mages must be prisoners? Why has there never been a revolution? ...

From the story snippet we got.

It seems to me that something happened to make Anders want to stand up and take a more active position against the Chantry. He believed he couldn't do it alone, and Justice offers to give Anders everything he was so they could stand against the Chantry together.

It's not something he does out of the kindness of his heart; he does it because he wants to fight, and he needs (or believes he needs) Justice to make a difference. Why he changes from his glib stance, it's not entirely clear - but we have seen what being a Grey Warden does to empower the downtrodden (if Duncan, Alistair, Oghren, Nathaniel, Sigrun - to say nothing of all *our* Wardens, rising from tragedy to save Ferelden/Thedas), and perhaps seeing that the Chantry is trying to interfere even with that freedom was the last straw.

Modifié par nenosronhir, 25 février 2011 - 12:38 .

[Threeparts]

 Updated playlist!
I'm going through my iTunes looking for extras to throw up there myself. Totally adding Billy Joel's You May Be Right for a Hawke/Anders romance. 

[Starflower2525]

Threeparts wrote...

 Updated playlist!
I'm going through my iTunes looking for extras to throw up there myself. Totally adding Billy Joel's You May Be Right for a Hawke/Anders romance. 

Cool

[RedWulfi]

I think he could be quite interesting to romance considering his possition : O

[Svancara]

Honestly I don't really know what Justice's beef is with the Chantry that he would offer his spirit to Anders in the first place.

Judging from DA:O he never expressed any opinion to the Chantry whatsoever (unless I completely forgot this occured).



Furthermore, how did Justice contact Anders anyway?

As far as I know from the epilogue Justice doesn't reside in his GW corpse forever, seeing it decayed further and further.

Also I believe in multiple endings of Awakening his body simply collapsed, either freely or by being killed, and Justice his spirit is never seen or heard from again.

[Zep Rowsdower]

Svancara wrote...

Honestly I don't really know what Justice's beef is with the Chantry that he would offer his spirit to Anders in the first place.
Judging from DA:O he never expressed any opinion to the Chantry whatsoever (unless I completely forgot this occured).

He talks with Anders about it. He's not fond of the Chantry.

• Justice: I understand that you struggle against your oppression, mage.
• Anders: I avoid my oppression. That's not quite the same thing, is it?
• Justice: Why do you not strike a blow against your oppressors? Ensure they can do this to no one else?
• Anders: Because it sounds difficult?
• Justice: Apathy is a weakness.
• Anders: So is death. I'm just saying.

• Justice: I believe you have a responsibility to your fellow mages.
• Anders: That bit of self-righteousness is directed at me?
• Justice: You have seen oppression and are now free. You must act to free those who remain oppressed.
• Anders: Or I could mind my business, in case the Chantry comes knocking.
• Justice: But this is not right. You have an obligation.
• Anders: Yes, well... welcome to the world, spirit.

[RedWulfi]

didnt anders also talk to justice about merging with another being or something like that

[catabuca]

Yep, I only recently played Awakening and paid close attention to the banter between Anders and Justice. It seemed to all come from Justice, to be honest, with him believing Anders had an obligation to fight the oppression of the Chantry and Templars, whereas Anders was reasonably nonplussed about it and was just happy to keep a low profile and not get caught again.

I suspect that spending a considerable amount of time together, knowing that Justice felt so strongly about it, would at the very least make Anders raise certain questions to himself, privately at least if not to others. It's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that Anders always knew the oppression was wrong in general, but his sense of self-preservation had been most the important thing before. I'd suspect being a grey warden changes your perspective somewhat.

What I'm most interested in is what it was about Anders that caused Justice to turn into Vengeance. During Awakening, I got a distinct sense that, while Justice clearly sought justice, there was a fine line, that he himself recognised but wanted to perhaps deny, between justice and vengeance. I didn't get anything like that from Anders ... So why was it something about Anders in particular that changed Justice to Vengeance?

[RedWulfi]

no doubt it will be explained in the game..

[catabuca]

AndersIsLush wrote...

didnt anders also talk to justice about merging with another being or something like that

Nathanial seemed to have the most conversations with Justice about this actually. Unless I was forced otherwise, I always had Justice, Anders and Nate in my party, and the banter tended to be Justice questioning Anders about his obligations towards all mages and Anders brushing him off with humour, or Nate questioning Justice about his position as a spirit inhabiting a corpse, and his options when that corpse became unstable. I believe there were also conversations about spirits becoming demons, and Justice saying that relies on the spirit desiring something, but I can't remember whether it was Anders or Nate who had those conversations with him. Perhaps Anders actually.

[RedWulfi]

I was thinking nate as well. Though anders seemed more the type to asking something like that XD

[catabuca]

AndersIsLush wrote...

I was thinking nate as well. Though anders seemed more the type to asking something like that XD

At first I thought it would make more sense Anders having those conversations with him, but of course I realised that I was looking at it with the benefit of hindsight. I kept them in my party all the time because I knew they'd be together in DA2, so I suppose I was looking for something that may not have been there at the time, if you see what I mean.

Thinking about it, if it takes the presence of desire to make a spirit into a demon, then it could be something as simple as Justice possessing Anders after Anders has realised his own desire to stop the oppression of mages that turned Justice. I was thinking it would have to be something more dramatic, but perhaps not. Previously, Justice merely had a sense for what was right, and wanted to bring justice to the world (which is itself a desire, but I digress). There were no desires in Kirstoff because he was dead, so there was nothing to cause that transformation. We already know the strength of Justice's feelings about the need to bring justice for the mages, because he expressed it so strongly in Awakening. If we couple that with even a reasonable desire to end the oppression, then Justice possessing Anders would mix those two together and just tip Justice over the edge, where that sense for justice then becomes a desire for justice and a desire for vengeance.

[ReallyRue]

catabuca wrote...

AndersIsLush wrote...

didnt anders also talk to justice about merging with another being or something like that

Nathanial seemed to have the most conversations with Justice about this actually. Unless I was forced otherwise, I always had Justice, Anders and Nate in my party, and the banter tended to be Justice questioning Anders about his obligations towards all mages and Anders brushing him off with humour, or Nate questioning Justice about his position as a spirit inhabiting a corpse, and his options when that corpse became unstable. I believe there were also conversations about spirits becoming demons, and Justice saying that relies on the spirit desiring something, but I can't remember whether it was Anders or Nate who had those conversations with him. Perhaps Anders actually.

It was with Anders. He asks Justice what demons want from mages, and after a few rebuffs, Justice talks about how he doesn't understand the nature of demons, but that they are spirits perverted by their desires.
Not entirely sure how this works for him turning into Vengeance though.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Nate did have a conversation with Justice about possessing a live person, and at first Justice was completely against it but then Nate seemed to talk him out of that. IT'S ALL NATHANIEL'S FAULT lol.



I don't think either of them understood what might happen when Justice possessed Anders. I mean, Justice said it himself that he didn't understand the nature of demons, and Anders obviously didn't know. It really goes to show how there might be a fine line between certain emotions and how easily that line can be crossed. Justice has been in the material world for some time now and has seen and experienced many things, whereas most spirits are disconnected from humans (the base feelings of demons are much more commonplace than the virtues of spirits I think). Anders has a ton of pent up emotion about the Chantry, even more than he ever lets on (evident by his sarcasm and tendency to avoid problems in DA:A). We got a feel of that in his LI story, much more than we ever knew about him before. He had no idea that all those negative feelings would end up pushing Justice over the edge like that. Now it's a struggle to keep that spirit in check, but Vengeance might be slowly corrupting his feelings, almost against his will...



I think that the Anders/Justice storyline is going to tell us a lot more about the nature of spirits/demons in general, beyond just Anders' story of his struggle. It's all very interesting.

[ReallyRue]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Nate did have a conversation with Justice about possessing a live person, and at first Justice was completely against it but then Nate seemed to talk him out of that. IT'S ALL NATHANIEL'S FAULT lol.

I don't think either of them understood what might happen when Justice possessed Anders. I mean, Justice said it himself that he didn't understand the nature of demons, and Anders obviously didn't know. It really goes to show how there might be a fine line between certain emotions and how easily that line can be crossed. Justice has been in the material world for some time now and has seen and experienced many things, whereas most spirits are disconnected from humans (the base feelings of demons are much more commonplace than the virtues of spirits I think). Anders has a ton of pent up emotion about the Chantry, even more than he ever lets on (evident by his sarcasm and tendency to avoid problems in DA:A). We got a feel of that in his LI story, much more than we ever knew about him before. He had no idea that all those negative feelings would end up pushing Justice over the edge like that. Now it's a struggle to keep that spirit in check, but Vengeance might be slowly corrupting his feelings, almost against his will...

I think that the Anders/Justice storyline is going to tell us a lot more about the nature of spirits/demons in general, beyond just Anders' story of his struggle. It's all very interesting.

That's part of what makes it so interesting. Mages, demons/spirits and the Fade are all very fascinating.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ever since the quest with Ser Otto in Origins I've been extremely interested in demons as well, I hope we get a lot of insight.

[Eshaye]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Nate did have a conversation with Justice about possessing a live person, and at first Justice was completely against it but then Nate seemed to talk him out of that. IT'S ALL NATHANIEL'S FAULT lol.

lol If he does make a cameo he's got something to answer for! Very interesting read in here this morning and yay more screenshots, my lust-o-meter just went up a bit looking them over. . :innocent:

[Threeparts]

Reposting from the Fenris thread:







By MetalFluffyNinja

[Taleroth]

I object to the objectifying of those three gentlemen.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Well I object to your objection, that was very objectionable.

[Zep Rowsdower]

Threeparts wrote...

Reposting from the Fenris thread:

*cute picture*

By MetalFluffyNinja

Hee, this amuses me since I've taken to referring to Anders as my healsl*t.

Modifié par Zep Rowsdower, 25 février 2011 - 03:18 .

[ReallyRue]

@ threeparts, I'm wanting that same harem myself. Romancing Anders instead, of course.