6655 réponses à ce sujet

[Miri1984]

I think we need to assume that we know nothing here, peeps. It's hard, I KNOW.

[HolyJellyfish]

You know..... Bioware should just make all their characters li.

Fan: " ALL SHOULD BE LI! "

Dev: " But....  you don't understand the implications of what you ask! "

Fan: " DO EET! "

Months later.

Wrex : Sugar lumps.

Shepard: Lizardwaffles.

[mellifera]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Calla S wrote...

Meet Aveline before you even escape Lothering? Oh, look, another LI! Oh, wait --

First female you meet in the actual game (not as Hawke) is Cassandra!
First male is Varric.
... or Templar 232 or Templar 6432.

Orsino and Meredith on the title screen!
Deffo LIs.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Calla S wrote...

If that's your logic, Varric should be the LI, shouldn't he?

Meet him when you first get into Kirkwall? Boom! LI!

Yes, but Anders has, uh... Shoulder pads. Preeeetty sure that means he's going to be an LI. Look at Alistair, look at Zevran. That's not just coincidence!

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't think he reached that stage yet.

But this is very revealing of Ander's character really. He, at least indirectly, was the one responsable for Justice's transformation (granted, it hit Justice's nature as well). In Awakening, I actually thought that Anders did not hate the Chantry that much. He is not pro-Libertarian and he thinks what they are doing is insane / dangerous.


So I was kind of fooled by his exterior it seems. He does a pretty good job at controlling his emotions. Good for him. Well until Justice came along. But even here, he seems to be struggling to control him. Rather impressive, Uldred seemingly didn't manage (though it was a pride demon and in a moment of deesperation, so maybe kind of difference) .

Obviously his jovial nature was a mask for some pretty serious bitterness. I'm wondering how much of it he really confronted before he finds his friend made tranquil in attempt to capture him. Maybe he was lying to himself about how deep those feelings ran, too.

EDIT: You know what I hate? BWSN's weird random autoformat. That's what I hate.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 13 février 2011 - 07:36 .

[SgtElias]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I don't think he reached that stage yet.

But this is very revealing of Ander's character really. He, at least indirectly, was the one responsable for Justice's transformation (granted, it hit Justice's nature as well). In Awakening, I actually thought that Anders did not hate the Chantry that much. He is not pro-Libertarian and he thinks what they are doing is insane / dangerous.

So I was kind of fooled by his exterior it seems. He does a pretty good job at controlling his emotions. Good for him. Well until Justice came along. But even here, he seems to be struggling to control him. Rather impressive, Uldred seemingly didn't manage (though it was a pride demon and in a moment of deesperation, so maybe kind of difference) .   

Yes, I was surprised by that, as well. Anders talks, quite a bit, actually, in Awakening about how much he hates the Circle and the Templars, and maybe even the Chantry as a whole, but apparently there was a LOT more beneath the surface than we ever realized, if it corrupted a spirit of Justice into becoming a (sorta) demon.

Or, I suppose, there was some sort of catalyst. Or a series of catalysts. I suppose it's entirely possible that instead of Anders being this huge walking bag of mage-anger that Justice and he were doing fine until something really serious happened, which set them both off and turned Justice into Vengeance.

I suppose we'll see in less than a month.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Obviously his jovial nature was a mask for some pretty serious bitterness. I'm wondering how much of it he really confronted before he finds his friend made tranquil in attempt to capture him. Maybe he was lying to himself about how deep those feelings ran, too.

There was bitterness yes, and in some places it was obvious. But that doesn't necessarily translate into hatred, or at least enough hatred to act upon it.

The character bio makes it sound one sided vis a vis the trasnformation (as in Justice transformed because of Anders feelings). I am wondering however if Justice had an input as well. If he inadvertently pushed Anders to turn bitterness into serious hatred.

Cool stuff.

And I don't know if anyone mentionned it, but do you think Anders will sound like Uldred (one voice), or like Connor (with echoes of a demon voice)? Or will Anders sound schizophrenic, with Vengeance speaking through him?

[packardbell]

http://fc08.devianta...hia-d395ugw.gif

Join or die!

Modifié par packardbell, 13 février 2011 - 07:44 .

[leggywillow]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But this is very revealing of Ander's character really. He, at least indirectly, was the one responsable for Justice's transformation (granted, it hit Justice's nature as well). In Awakening, I actually thought that Anders did not hate the Chantry that much. He is not pro-Libertarian and he thinks what they are doing is insane / dangerous.

Hmm, you know what I just remembered, actually?  Despite Anders's hate for the Chantry, he was NOT in favor of the Circle of Mages pulling away from it entirely.  Not in one fell swoop, anyway.  When you meet Wynne in Awakening and she tells you about the magi convening, Anders seems shocked by it.

His exact words: "Pull away entirely?  That's madness.  I hate Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave.  This is a recipe for disaster."

Interesting.  That may be some evidence that Justice has an effect on Anders too in DA2, not just the other way around.

Modifié par leggywillow, 13 février 2011 - 07:44 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

SgtElias wrote...
Or, I suppose, there was some sort of catalyst. Or a series of catalysts. I suppose it's entirely possible that instead of Anders being this huge walking bag of mage-anger that Justice and he were doing fine until something really serious happened, which set them both off and turned Justice into Vengeance.

I suppose we'll see in less than a month.

Yea, good point.

He could have witnessed some terrible injustice towards mages, seriously offensing Ander's empathy and Justice's....justice and thus trigerring the transformation. Like the Joker said: "all it takes is one push".  

Hmmm, I do not know why I just thought of Anders as the mage Magneto now (he too suffered several catalysts that turned him into what he became).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 13 février 2011 - 07:46 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

leggywillow wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But this is very revealing of Ander's character really. He, at least indirectly, was the one responsable for Justice's transformation (granted, it hit Justice's nature as well). In Awakening, I actually thought that Anders did not hate the Chantry that much. He is not pro-Libertarian and he thinks what they are doing is insane / dangerous.

Hmm, you know what I just remembered, actually?  Despite Anders's hate for the Chantry, he was NOT in favor of the Circle of Mages pulling away from it entirely.  Not in one fell swoop, anyway.  When you meet Wynne in Awakening and she tells you about the magi convening, Anders seems shocked by it.

His exact words: "Pull away entirely?  That's madness.  I hate Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave.  This is a recipe for disaster."

Interesting, especially now that we know how deeply his Chantry-hate runs.

Yea exactly, and I thought Anders was being remarkably wise and objective. I agree with his statement.

Though it could be because he controlled his hatred, rather than not having a serious hatred like I initially thought.

[ThatDancingTurian]

leggywillow wrote...

Hmm, you know what I just remembered, actually?  Despite Anders's hate for the Chantry, he was NOT in favor of the Circle of Mages pulling away from it entirely.  Not in one fell swoop, anyway.  When you meet Wynne in Awakening and she tells you about the magi convening, Anders seems shocked by it.

His exact words: "Pull away entirely?  That's madness.  I hate Chantry oversight as much as the next mage, but they can't just decide to leave.  This is a recipe for disaster."

Interesting, especially now that we know how deeply his Chantry-hate runs.

Is it possible that rather than being opposed to the idea, he simply thought it was an impossible task? He is quite the naysayer. As much as he might like the idea of freedom, I think he simply saw the Chantry as this insurmountable force that nobody could overcome, and that's why he always chose to run.

[LupusYondergirl]

I always figured he didn't support the libertarians because he probably figured the mages voting, among themselves, to be free would only end with the chantry saying "yes... and?" followed by a large number of dead mages.

Not unlike the "mage boon" from origins.

Modifié par LupusYondergirl, 13 février 2011 - 07:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

He didn't support the libertarians because he probably figured the mages voting, among themselves, to be free would only end with the chantry saying "yes... and?" followed by a large number of dead mages.

In either case, he doesn't want war.

So he either doesn't hate them blindly, or does a good job at controlling it.

[SgtElias]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hmmm, I do not know why I just thought of Anders as the mage Magneto now (he too suffered several catalysts that turned him into what he became).

Hey, I like that idea! Mage Magneto. Cool.

It helps that Magneto was sort of always my favorite, despite the fact that ya sometimes wanted to punch his face.

I'm actually almost (almost!) sad that Anders will probably now be so fanatical about mages/templars. I have a hard time (personally) understanding the Chantry side as it is, and now with Anders/Vengence egging my Mage!Hawke on . . .

Yeeeeah, unbiased probably isn't going to happen. Sigh.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Is it possible that rather than being opposed to the idea, he simply thought it was an impossible task? He is quite the naysayer. As much as he might like the idea of freedom, I think he simply saw the Chantry as this insurmountable force that nobody could overcome, and that's why he always chose to run.

Despite his empathy, I think Anders is an individualist at heart. I don't think he would see himself as duty bound to free mages. What he wants is to free himself first and foremost. 

But yes, I think Anders' sentiment was pragmatic and whatever hatred he might have had is controlled.

[SgtElias]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I always figured he didn't support the libertarians because he probably figured the mages voting, among themselves, to be free would only end with the chantry saying "yes... and?" followed by a large number of dead mages.

Not unlike the "mage boon" from origins.

Good point.

Also, at one point I remember a dialogue between Justice and Anders where Justice kept asking Anders why he didn't fight for his brethren in the tower, to which Anders would usually tell him he didn't because it sounded difficult (and dangerous). So unless he was only saying that to get a rise out of Justice, it's also possible that Justice changed Anders as much as Anders changed Justice.

Or something. If that made sense.

[KnightofPhoenix]

SgtElias wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hmmm, I do not know why I just thought of Anders as the mage Magneto now (he too suffered several catalysts that turned him into what he became).

Hey, I like that idea! Mage Magneto. Cool.

It helps that Magneto was sort of always my favorite, despite the fact that ya sometimes wanted to punch his face.

I'm actually almost (almost!) sad that Anders will probably now be so fanatical about mages/templars. I have a hard time (personally) understanding the Chantry side as it is, and now with Anders/Vengence egging my Mage!Hawke on . . .

Yeeeeah, unbiased probably isn't going to happen. Sigh.

Magneto fan too.

Eh, it would be awesome hearing Anders say "peace was never an option".

[Miri1984]

I think there might have been a catalyst to get Anders to agree to the Justice inhabitation, and another to warp Justice. I'm hoping we get to see the second one.

[SgtElias]

Miri1984 wrote...

I think there might have been a catalyst to get Anders to agree to the Justice inhabitation, and another to warp Justice. I'm hoping we get to see the second one.

I always just assumed that the two were such good buds that they . . .  I dunno, agreed to it without much thought.

Naive, I know.

[snarkycleric]

SgtElias wrote...





Also, at one point I remember a dialogue between Justice and Anders where Justice kept asking Anders why he didn't fight for his brethren in the tower, to which Anders would usually tell him he didn't because it sounded difficult (and dangerous). So unless he was only saying that to get a rise out of Justice, it's also possible that Justice changed Anders as much as Anders changed Justice.



Or something. If that made sense.

It did to me! I mean, if Anders can influence Justice, I don't see why it can't be the other way around. Although I don't think it's so much 'changed' Anders as pushed certain priorities and opinions to the fore. I mean, he always seemed bitter about the Chantry to me, but having Justice/Vengeance occupying a spot in his head could've made him more willing to act on that bitterness/made it more pronounced/etc.

[Miri1984]

I very much doubt Anders would let Justice share his body without a damn good reason. Boy LIKES his freedom.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Miri1984 wrote...

I think there might have been a catalyst to get Anders to agree to the Justice inhabitation, and another to warp Justice. I'm hoping we get to see the second one.

Well Kirkwall is essentially ruled by a Templar like junta now. Maybe some sort of martial law is put in place and mages are treated even worse.

I hope we get to know about both and how they occured.

[SgtElias]

Miri1984 wrote...

I very much doubt Anders would let Justice share his body without a damn good reason. Boy LIKES his freedom.

I know, I know. *sheepish* I think when I read about it for the first time my idealism took over and decided that of course Anders would help his friend! Because they're just both so wonderful! We help each other, right guys? We help each other! <3

I teach preschool. I'm sorry, I just can't help it sometimes.

[Miri1984]

@SgtElias HAHAH ! I teach high school, so I'm an old cynical biatch In Anders' words, "We should form a club!"

Modifié par Miri1984, 13 février 2011 - 08:17 .

[pagerunner]

@Miri: And I'm on staff at a university. You want cynicism? That level of bureaucracy will do it. (I accidentally typed "bureaucrazy" first, which would... pretty much suit, come to think of it.)

Modifié par pagerunner, 13 février 2011 - 08:22 .