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The Official Anders Discussion thread


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#2226
Brockololly

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Wrenisbanana wrote...

I've read his short story twice now. He didn't actually bite the guy, right? Just tore off his head and blood splashed into his mouth... or something


Sounds like he was getting all nomnom on some human flesh in addition to blood:

And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they  were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me. Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody  abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh.


I'm not sold on the premise of Anders becoming an abomination but its an interesting premise I guess. But my Amell would just smack him upside the head, as unless he's going to literally go on some continent wide genocide teaming up with Flemeth or something, by losing control to a spirit/demon and becoming an abomination, he's just proving the Templar and Chantry's point that mages can't control themselves without supervision.

Modifié par Brockololly, 15 février 2011 - 01:33 .


#2227
Margaret_TheElf

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Vengeance strikes again!
(I wouldn't actually walk out on him; just wait until Venny goes away!)

Posted Image


And ironically, I was listening to "Don't Break the Heart That Loves You," which is sung by Greg Ellis, Anders' voice actor.

<3DON'T LET VENGEANCE RUIN YOUR VALENTINES DAY!<3

#2228
Cypher0020

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LOL.....



I am wondering if Justice/Vengence w/e will truly be problamatic in the relationship

#2229
Janele

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@Threeparts Loved the Doctor Who pics! That show is amazing, definitely one of my favorite. David Tennant gifs describe my reactions perfectly too :)

#2230
Janele

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tankgirly wrote...

Gremnock wrote...

Anyone know if Greg Ellis is doing his voice again? Or who is?


Miri asked him two weeks ago on his FB, yes. He will be voice Anders again.


Maybe if we beg him on FB he'll tell us a hint about something O.O

#2231
leggywillow

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Yeah but this is shortly in year one, maybe even before then. It'll only get worse from here on out.


I doubt it will get worse.  I could of course be wrong, but I really think that initial explosive experience is the lowest Anders will go.  Not the lowest he could go, but after it he quickly learns to control himself for the most part.  He may come close, but hopefully his own willpower and the strength of the friends he makes in DA2 will keep it from ever getting that bad again.

I have a feeling that will be the focus of the Anders romance... the whole "I'M A MONSTER!  I have done horrible things and I'm afraid I'll do them again!"  Only hopefully it will be less Edward Cullen-y and more... awesome Bioware-y.  I personally have faith in Jennifer Hepler that it will not be full-on Twilight-worthy wangst.  Or disturbing baby-eating cannibalism.

#2232
Threeparts

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Okay! Breaking out my analyst hat and deconstructing the story. Apologies to the BW writers, but I'm going to take your story apart piece by piece.

[quote]The light here isn't right. It's too yellow. Too harsh. And it all comes from above. For a moment, I'm not sure why that seems wrong. The sun… that's always been there, right? What am I remembering?[/quote]So he can't differentiate between the memories of Justice and the memories of Anders. As Justice would remember Kristoff as well, would he retain that life as well? Is Anders, in fact, Rogue?

[quote]The throb in my head returns and without thinking, I draw on a breath of mana to drive it away. The pain lifts as the magic settles over it, soothing and cooling.[/quote]I wonder if this ease with healing is something he's always had given his specialisation, or if Justice makes working with magic easier?

[quote]What is my name?

I am Anders.
I am Justice.

This never used to be so hard.[/quote]

Confused about his identity, so again, they seem to have merged their personalities rather than being two distinct beings. The "never used to be this hard" line could even be a reference to Justice in Kristoff's body, and how well he separated those two identities.

[quote] Justice's voice, my voice, speaking through the rotting face of the body he once claimed. "It is time. You have shown me an injustice greater than any I have faced. Do you have the courage to accept my aid?"[/quote]So Justice stayed in Kristoff's body and survived Vigil's Keep, as did Anders. Neither "died".

[quote]To stay in the mortal realm, he needs a host, a body to inhabit for a lifetime[/quote]Anders apparently knew ahead of time that this wasn't temporary - he was prepared for Justice to stay permanently.

[quote]If I gave him that, he would give me all he had, all he was. Together, we could remake Thedas into a world where justice rules, not fear.[/quote]What kind of powers does Justice have? I don't think a hatred for injustice is a power, per se, so what exactly was Justice offering that would be "all he had"?

[quote]A world with no Circle. No templars. A world where every mage can learn to use their gifts and still return home at night. Where no mother ever need hide her child... or lose him to the fear of his neighbors.[/quote]To me, that implies that Anders' mother kept him in hiding after the incident mentioned later, and that a neighbour ratted them out to the Chantry.

[quote] I was no more than twelve when they came for me.[/quote]Is he unsure of his actual age?

[quote]My mother wept when they fixed the chains to my wrists, but my father was glad to see me gone. He had been afraid, ever since the fire in the barn. Not just afraid of what I could do, but afraid of me, afraid my magic was punishment for whatever petty sins he imagined the Maker sat in judgment upon.[/quote]Chained up a twelve-year-old? Yeah, disliking the Templars more than ever. Fire in a barn implies that he was a country boy, possibly with his parents as landowners. His father was afraid of him, but apparently bowed to his wife and kept the boy hidden. Any rants I may have on religion in general shall go unsaid! I do wonder what happened in the barn that go him heated up enough to light it on fire, though.

[quote]I always knew I wouldn't submit. I could never be what they wanted from me -- compliant, obedient, guilty.[/quote]The guilt thing is huge from people that have broken away from churches in real life, I've noticed. Makes sense to include it in Anders' story.

[quote]But before Justice, I was alone. I never thought beyond my own escape: Where would I hide? How long before they found me?[/quote]So he may never have tried to assist a friend to break out, or gone on the run with another apostate. That's sad, it would have been lonely and frightening, especially if he started making escape attempts shortly after being taken to the Circle. Mages don't get let out of the tower often, so until he made an extended escape all he would have known about the outside world is what a 12yo boy would know, and whatever gossip he overheard in the Tower.

[quote]Now, even that thought repulses me. Why should so many others live with what I will not?[/quote]Being repulsed by something would be different to the hatred I always thought Justice felt. He's disgusted by what he sees as Anders' cowardice and selfishness. Beyond that, he had Anders' memories, but now they're coloured by Justice's opinions. More evidence of merging.

[quote]"He's coming to." A voice, getting closer. Someone I know. A Grey Warden.[/quote]"Someone I know", not "someone we know". He doesn't think of himself as two people at this point.

[quote]"He just went crazy. His eyes were glowing... His bloody skin cracked open and it was like he was on fire inside. Just kept raving... something about injustice, a revolution. Thought I was going to have to put the blighter down like a mad dog, then he just collapsed."

"Damned mages."[/quote]

The Templars are apparently pretty trigger happy. This seems to have happened outside, away from most people, and no one else was affected, but they still considered killing him without finding out what was going on.
I assume the skin cracking open looks a little like the clip we see in the refugee camp where he meets Hawke, with the blue light shinging through the skin of his face.

[quote]I struggle to stand, to open my eyes and face them like a man, not the chewed-up pile of hurlock spew I feel like. [/quote]This, along with the headache, makes it evident that spirit possession is very much not happy fun times.

[quote] The price I had to pay for the Grey Wardens' generosity in recruiting me out from under the templars' noses. He was one of them, before his Chantry was destroyed by the darkspawn and he felt the calling to join the Wardens. No one ever said a deal had been struck, but as soon as the templars stopped their protests, Rolan turned up in the Wardens, and we've fielded every assignment together since. It's all too clear the templars sent him to keep watch.[/quote]How long did it take for the Templars to outright stop their protests and go for more subtle methods? It's conceivable that they decided to send in a spy after our Warden Commander left the order, so that there would be less opposition if he or she wanted Anders to have his freedom.
It also implies that the Templars sent Rolan and got him specifically partnered with Anders, so at this point they may have some sway with whoever is leading the Order.

[quote]And whatever possessed me to make my deal with Justice anywhere he might witness?[/quote]Seriously dude, couldn't you have locked yourself in a bathroom stall or something, rather than under the open sky? Maker, Anders, you idiot.

[quote]something stirs inside me, and I wonder if it's harder for Justice to exert his will in a body that a living consciousness still inhabits. But it's a futile question, because his thoughts are mine and he is me, and I'm no longer sure what I was even asking.[/quote]So Justice can - at this point - enforce his own will more strongly than Anders can, and when he does so, Anders' personality and thoughts no longer seem to matter.

[quote]"The Wardens agreed we can't harbor an abomination," he is saying, nasal voice vibrating with smug satisfaction, and I don't need to hear more. He's brought the templars down on me, on us, and this is just what we've been waiting for.[/quote]So prior to this, Anders would not have considered doing anything to Rolan unless he was outright betrayed. He didn't try to run away, or get the Templar Warden "accidentally" killed, a la Biff in his opening scene in Awakening.

[quote] My arm lashes out and silverite doesn't so much break as explode in a shower of molten metal. The sword melts, running down the templar's chest, and I follow up with a wave of flames which scorch the flesh from his face, leaving only bone so hot it smolders. The trees are burning... the tent... everything around us.[/quote]It sounds like he's much more powerful than he was before, at least with the destructive forces. It's reinforcing my impression that what Justice offered him was the ability to use more magic at once, make it easier, or simply increase the effect of his ability.
The tent suggests that he and Rolan were out on assignment together when Anders went off alone to make the deal with Justice.

[quote]I have a sudden thought, "What am I?" for I've seen him face both broodmothers and abominations without fear.[/quote]I wonder whose thought this is. Is the shock Anders' or Justice's? Does it matter?

[quote]And then his sword is level with my chest, and I let it come, because it is only steel and cannot hurt me, for I am not of mortal men. And when it sinks hilt-deep in my flesh with no reaction, that's when he gives up.[/quote]This could mean that it doesn't matter if the body dies because the spirit will possess it regardless, or that the power of Anders' healing could fix it anyway. Or perhaps that Justice has made Anders kind of... immortal?

[quote] He turns and runs, and from behind, I tear his head off at the neck, no magic, just me, whatever that is now. His blood splashes into my open mouth and it tastes like honeyed wine and the warmth spreads through me.[/quote]Physical strength, as well as magical power. The "whatever that is now" line leads me to believe that this is where we really see Vengeance come to the fore. Neither Anders nor Justice ever displayed outright pleasure in the deaths of others, but here we see him/them enjoying the violence.

[quote]He hated me, and he is dead. He feared me, and he is dead. He hunted me, and he is dead.[/quote]Definitely not the words of a spirit called Justice.

[quote]They will all die. Every templar, every holy sister who stands in the way of our freedom will die in agony and their deaths will be our fuel. We will have justice. We will have vengeance.[/quote]I've mentioned this before but this really pinpoints the difference between the concepts of Justice and Vengeance. Justice isn't about making others pay for what they've done to you: it's about punishment without mercy or hate. Vengeance also lacks mercy, but is fueled by hate and unconstrained by morality.
What's that Pratchett quote? "The evil are guilty, and create mercy. The good are innocent, and create justice." Something like that.

[quote]And suddenly I'm alone, standing in a burning forest, with the bodies of templars and wardens at my feet. So many, and I didn't even know they were there. Didn't even know I had killed them, but the evidence is all around me.[/quote]It seems that when Vengeance is sated, he allows Anders to take control again, leaving the mage we know and love with little idea of what he's done, even though he realises that he did it.
More evidence of the Wardens and the Templars colluding - why would the Wardens need the Templars? They're not around to hunt apostates, their focus is on the Darkspawn. Something has obviously changed in the Order. Was this a set-up by the Commander, or did the Templars act on their own to intercept whatever the Wardens were doing?

[quote] Not the aftermath of a battle as I've known it, but a bloody abattoir of rent limbs and torn and eaten flesh.[/quote]I know people make a big deal about the "eaten flesh" part, but I like it. Vengeance is not nice. It's not tame. It's fire and fury and bloodlust and enjoying every moment. Vengeance has no control over itself, and it consumes all in its path.

[quote]This is not justice. This is not the spirit who was my friend, my self. What has he become? What have I become? We must get out of here. There is no place for me in the Grey Wardens now.[/quote]I like that Anders and Justice became friends, even if they disagreed on key viewpoints. Like Rivals in DA2!
There's definitely an awareness that he knows that something has gone wrong, something has changed with Justice. I wonder if he's running from what he's done to the Wardens and Templars, or if he's running from the horror of what is inside of himself.

[quote]Is there a place for me anywhere?[/quote]And Anders is on the run again, and my heart aches for the lad. Scared, hunted, alone, with the potential to go crazy and kill anyone that tries to help him.

Posted Image

Modifié par Threeparts, 15 février 2011 - 04:28 .


#2233
Saphara

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leggywillow wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Yeah but this is shortly in year one, maybe even before then. It'll only get worse from here on out.


I doubt it will get worse.  I could of course be wrong, but I really think that initial explosive experience is the lowest Anders will go.  Not the lowest he could go, but after it he quickly learns to control himself for the most part.  He may come close, but hopefully his own willpower and the strength of the friends he makes in DA2 will keep it from ever getting that bad again.

I have a feeling that will be the focus of the Anders romance... the whole "I'M A MONSTER!  I have done horrible things and I'm afraid I'll do them again!"  Only hopefully it will be less Edward Cullen-y and more... awesome Bioware-y.  I personally have faith in Jennifer Hepler that it will not be full-on Twilight-worthy wangst.  Or disturbing baby-eating cannibalism.


If it turns Twilight-y, I will have to burn my copy of DA2. The devil must buuurn! Posted Image

#2234
Elite Midget

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I hoe no one ends up surprised if Anders shows more interest in Bethany over Femhawke,

#2235
Saphara

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Elite Midget wrote...

I hoe no one ends up surprised if Anders shows more interest in Bethany over Femhawke,


well, that wouldnt work too well since Bethany can end up dead.

#2236
leggywillow

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Saphara wrote...
If it turns Twilight-y, I will have to burn my copy of DA2. The devil must buuurn! Posted Image


Lol!  Personally I'm not worried about it.  Maybe I'm just an easily pleased fangirl, but Bioware hasn't let me down yet.  I wasn't here for the pre-DA:O hype, so I don't know if there were the same kinds of concerns then.  But Origins turned out to be AWESOME.  I dearly loved every single party member and found them all to be compelling and realistic, so I'm not worried about Anders becoming something wangsty and ridiculous.

#2237
Elite Midget

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Maybe Anders can go both ways and turn his attentions onto Carver? The sibling of the Great Hawke who must forever live in said siblings shadow... Surely a Spirit of Justice will see room to lit up that fire, eh?

#2238
Jenova65

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I have been busy playing DA:O so missed the news when it was announced.....

But YAY better late to the party than never, eh? :-)

Colour me chuffed! (English for 'really pleased, lol)

#2239
RestARose13

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I actually think that Anders and Justice made their pact earlier, but it was still around Rolan. At that point, Rolan contacted the Templars and they set up the ambush we see in the story. The point where his skin crackles and everything could just be that since he was remembering the pact his body reacted the same as that time.



IDK that's what I think.

#2240
Saphara

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Elite Midget wrote...

Maybe Anders can go both ways and turn his attentions onto Carver? The sibling of the Great Hawke who must forever live in said siblings shadow... Surely a Spirit of Justice will see room to lit up that fire, eh?


That would only work if he ends up the bi comanion, which we dont know yet. Also, i just dont see him choosing a sibling working, since they are interchangeable depending on your class. Same reason Seb isnt a romance.

#2241
IamLoreYayaya

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Just so you know Twilight isn't the first series to touch on the whole "This romance could endanger you/us and it would be all my fault." Its a take on forbidden love and it incorporates a multitude of other emotions as well. I wouldn't be upset if BioWare played with this concept a bit. They would do it better than twilight.

#2242
leggywillow

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Wrenisbanana wrote...

Just so you know Twilight isn't the first series to touch on the whole "This romance could endanger you/us and it would be all my fault." Its a take on forbidden love and it incorporates a multitude of other emotions as well. I wouldn't be upset if BioWare played with this concept a bit. They would do it better than twilight.


Twilight didn't do it first, but they certainly did it the worst, which is our greatest fear.  :P  That's why I brought it up, lol.  I think Bioware can and will do a great job with it.

#2243
Ninjacat513

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What if Anders has violent mood swings while, ahem, caboodling with Hawkette

#2244
Lillgremlin

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Ninjacat513 wrote...

What if Anders has violent mood swings while, ahem, caboodling with Hawkette


Rough sex? :whistle::innocent:

#2245
Ninjacat513

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Lillgremlin wrote...

Ninjacat513 wrote...

What if Anders has violent mood swings while, ahem, caboodling with Hawkette


Rough sex? :whistle::innocent:



Teehee Posted Image

#2246
panamakira

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Threeparts wrote...

It seems that when Vengeance is sated, he allows Anders to take control again, leaving the mage we know and love with little idea of what he's done, even though he realises that he did it.
More evidence of the Wardens and the Templars colluding - why would the Wardens need the Templars? They're not around to hunt apostates, their focus is on the Darkspawn. Something has obviously changed in the Order. Was this a set-up by the Commander, or did the Templars act on their own to intercept whatever the Wardens were doing?


I just cannot see being the fault of the Commander. I know what I did in the game, what choices I've made, why would out of nowhere betray my friend and brother, as we're both Grey Warden to participate on Witch Hunts with Templars. Duncan was clear when he told Alistair when we meet him in Ostagar to stop caring about the mages and chantry as it was not Grey Warden business and this is as I and many others played their Wardens.

I do however completely agree that "something" happened within the Order. My warden didn't stay, so now the Chantry runs the Grey Wardens??!! Ugh!! I hope we get answerd because I don't like it! It's like these are not things my Warden would've done, what happened?

Either way, I get more evidence as to why I should not support the chantry, but Anders running crazy with Vengeance is not helping the cause. We have to get rid of Vengeance or save him and then fight the Chantry in a smart way.

I love it! :devil:

Modifié par panamakira, 15 février 2011 - 02:35 .


#2247
Elite Midget

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I thought Seb wasen't a romance because he was DLC?

#2248
Celestria129

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Saphara wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Yeah but this is shortly in year one, maybe even before then. It'll only get worse from here on out.


I doubt it will get worse.  I could of course be wrong, but I really think that initial explosive experience is the lowest Anders will go.  Not the lowest he could go, but after it he quickly learns to control himself for the most part.  He may come close, but hopefully his own willpower and the strength of the friends he makes in DA2 will keep it from ever getting that bad again.

I have a feeling that will be the focus of the Anders romance... the whole "I'M A MONSTER!  I have done horrible things and I'm afraid I'll do them again!"  Only hopefully it will be less Edward Cullen-y and more... awesome Bioware-y.  I personally have faith in Jennifer Hepler that it will not be full-on Twilight-worthy wangst.  Or disturbing baby-eating cannibalism.


If it turns Twilight-y, I will have to burn my copy of DA2. The devil must buuurn! Posted Image


Will donate matches to this causes

#2249
Lillgremlin

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Ninjacat513 wrote...

Lillgremlin wrote...

Ninjacat513 wrote...

What if Anders has violent mood swings while, ahem, caboodling with Hawkette


Rough sex? :whistle::innocent:



Teehee Posted Image


:innocent:

Mind you, theres rough sex then theres: AAAGH! THATS NOT SUPPOSED TO GO IN THERE!!! MY SPLEEEN!!

Hopefully Justice/Vengeance doesn't go insanely mental while your erm... "Bucking the bronto."

#2250
Threeparts

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panamakira wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

It seems that when Vengeance is sated, he allows Anders to take control again, leaving the mage we know and love with little idea of what he's done, even though he realises that he did it.
More evidence of the Wardens and the Templars colluding - why would the Wardens need the Templars? They're not around to hunt apostates, their focus is on the Darkspawn. Something has obviously changed in the Order. Was this a set-up by the Commander, or did the Templars act on their own to intercept whatever the Wardens were doing?


I just cannot see being the fault of the Commander. I know what I did in the game, what choices I've made, why would out of nowhere betray my friend and brother, as we're both Grey Warden to participate on Witch Hunts with Templars. Duncan was clear when he told Alistair when we meet him in Ostagar to stop caring about the mages and chantry as it was not Grey Warden business and this is as I and many others played their Wardens.

I do however completely agree that "something" happened within the Order. My warden didn't stay, so now the Chantry runs the Grey Wardens??!! Ugh!! I hope we get answerd because I don't like it! It's like these are not things my Warden would've done, what happened?

Either way, I get more evidence as to why I should not support the chantry, but Anders running crazy with Vengeance is not helping the cause. We have to get rid of Vengeance or save him and then fight the Chantry in a smart way.

I love it! :devil:


Yep, that's why I think this is after our Warden left Vigil's Keep. Whoever we left in charge, or whoever they left in charge (I'm actually guessing they sent someone used to command from Weisshaupt after our Warden leaves) may have made a deal with the Chantry to hand Anders over, or to simply gain more power within the Order.

That said, my Avia Cousland would be in shock and grieving, but my Iyana Tabris would be somewhere in Antiva when she hears the news and would be giving Anders a telepathic high five. ^_^