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[Jean]

He probably only killed the templars/wardens because they were trying to kill him.

.... Cannot account for the blood drinking, flesh eating part.

I'm digging him more and more each day.

I know the top of page rule.

Modifié par Batteries, 15 février 2011 - 05:40 .

[SgtElias]

IanPolaris wrote...

I hate what Bioware has done to Anders. IMHO it was done to "prove" just how supposedly dangerous mages are. I smell DG in this.

-Polaris

Mr. Polaris! Well met! I'm glad you've stopped by. I enjoy your posts on Mages' Rights immensly.

Honestly, as pro-mage as I am, I'm fine with it; there's been a lot of pro-mage stuff to come out lately (mostly the Dragon Age comic), so I don't mind them balancing it out with a warning as to the dangers of magic.

Although I will admit that I don't know if I'm "fine with it" because I honestly believe it doesn't portray mages in an unfair light, or if I'm just so darned excited to have a dark, snarky, possibly-needs-to-be-saved love interest in Anders, my second favorite character in all of Dragon Age.

I disagree that he can't be saved, though; but since neither of us knows what will happen in Dragon Age 2, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Disclaimer: The above is not sarcasm. I just read through it and was worried it sounded sarcastic, so wanted to clarify just in case.]

Modifié par SgtElias, 15 février 2011 - 05:43 .

[Miri1984]

@Filament I agree. The emphasis in that short story is that it's the first time they've joined - so it's understandable (NOT FORGIVABLE) that they both went a little crazy. I suspect he's learned to control it, seeing as it seems from the "justice" button on his skill bar can "activate" Justice at will.

[Reaverwind]

Miri1984 wrote...

@Filament I agree. The emphasis in that short story is that it's the first time they've joined - so it's understandable (NOT FORGIVABLE) that they both went a little crazy. I suspect he's learned to control it, seeing as it seems from the "justice" button on his skill bar can "activate" Justice at will.

According to Bioware's own website, Anders is fighting for control, so it's not a matter of "activating at will" at all.

[Taleroth]

IanPolaris wrote...

I hate what Bioware has done to Anders. IMHO it was done to "prove" just how supposedly dangerous mages are. I smell DG in this.

If that's what's going on, it's about time.  For a setting that's supposedly gray and gray, it was just too little clear cut.

[AtreiyaN7]

[quote]Raven_26 wrote...

[quote]AtreiyaN7 wrote...


I think he has more controle then at if he is runing a hospital healing kids..can't imagen them coming to get healed and he eats them instead XD

@AtreiyaN7 lol Simi? (From Dark Hunters?)

[/quote]


Nope, I'm a non-Simi Atreiya. It's the name of my shammy in WoW (came up with a feminized version of Atreyu after listening to them - hehe, not a huge fan, but I think the band name was stuck in my head at the time because I 'd heard The Theft on the radio a bazillion times). .

[AtreiyaN7]

Saibh wrote...

You know, I find it really interesting how well the team who made Anders' face kept with his original model. The returning characters had updates, but Anders looks pretty close to his original appearance.

*snips pics to save space*

Yeah, I think the update to his appearance was pretty good. In Awakening, he just looked too Alistairish around the eyes & the upper half of his face.

[SgtElias]

Filament wrote...

But yeah, I suspect he has some measure of control now, but also that Justice isn't completely far gone. Just, corrupted.

Of course I'm hoping for a way to save Justice, so that could just be what I want to believe.

Well, I assume that by the time Hawke meets up with him he has some measure of control. If not, why would you recruit him? Also, if he was prone to going off on killing sprees all the time anyway, there wouldn't be much of a climax in him going crazy more and more often. Whoops, there goes Anders again! Second time this week . . . that crazy abomination.

[SgtElias]

Filament wrote...

Well I guess what I'm saying is, Anders would need to have complete control if Justice was your usual maniac demon that we see, otherwise there's no way he'd be able to function in society. I don't think he has complete control, but since Justice isn't totally insane, it works out... for now.

Oh, I know. I agree with you. I just quoted you because you sorta addreesed something I'd been thinking about.

[IanPolaris]

Threeparts wrote...

I put it in the same camp as my actions with Connor, who I also spared. If there's a way to purge the demon from him, even if it it required lyrium and the assistance of the Circle, my Warden would attempt to do it. Anders didn't make a deal with a demon - he made a deal with a spirit that he believed was good, and that my Warden also knew and believed was good. He wasn't in control of himself when he killed the Templars, just as Connor wasn't in control when he killed the people in Redcliffe Castle.
My Warden would undoubtably kept him confined while she sought assistance, and would defend herself if he attacked her, but executing him in cold blood would be a tough decision.

The problem is that Anders knew better,and so in this case it's death by Darwin.  If you listen to the banter, you hear Justice becoming closer and closer to a demonic spirit in DAA.  You hear Anders cautioning justice that the only difference between spirits and demons is their 'sparkly personalities", and Anders knows that he and Justice don't even particularly get along well (at least they didn't in DAA).  Anders ALSO knows that once you let a spirit (ANY Spirit) in, there is no turning back.

No.  Anders did this to himself.  Had my canon warden known (Maeglin), he would have shot his own dog without the help of a Templar Traitor thank you and done it himself.  If a mage PC isn't permitted to kill a clear abomination like Anders who is indisputably guilty of mass murder, then any claim that mages make about self-policing becomes a bitter joke in the worst taste.

I blame bioware for punishing those of us that favor mages.

-Polaris

[AtreiyaN7]

IanPolaris wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

@Polaris I think I will reserve judgement on the "clearly an abomination" thing until I see a bit more of his character.

I don't have to.  Demon?  Check.  Possessing a mage? Check.  Mage can't (reliably) control it?  Check.

Abomination....and I'm usually sympathetic to mages, but Anders is an open-and-shut case, and I blame Bioware for making us "suffer" for not being sufficiently sympathetic to the Chantry position.

-Polaris

If the Chantry had given more freedom to mages, and if mages weren't treated like pariahs/public menaces by pretty much everyone, then this situation might not exist. If Anders and all other mages had been free, then Anders would either not have made a deal with Justice or would at least be a lot healthier emotionally and possibly function as a host like Wynne.

Being in solitary confinement for a year or however long it was that Anders was stuck by himself with that cat? I think that's the kind of oppressive treatment that leads to a great deal of resentment, hate and anger. The poor guy only wanted to be free and chase skirts. If anything, this makes me even less sympathetic to the Chantry point of view - thppt.  It may be possible to help the merged Anders & Vengeance/Justice  achieve some sort of stability and reliable control (perhaps turning the Vengeance part of him back into Justice, even if he's no longer a distinct and separate being).

[Cypher0020]

Batteries wrote...

He probably only killed the templars/wardens because they were trying to kill him.

.... Cannot account for the blood drinking, flesh eating part.

I'm digging him more and more each day.

I know the top of page rule.

Wow..... that's the saddest yet hottest pic of Anders I've seen yet

Ugh, I'm so going to play my magehawke as someone who REALLY hates the Circle concept.....

[tankgirly]

Let us take some time off, remembering the little kitty once inseparable with our beloved Ser Mage.

[Reaverwind]

IanPolaris wrote...

Threeparts wrote...

I put it in the same camp as my actions with Connor, who I also spared. If there's a way to purge the demon from him, even if it it required lyrium and the assistance of the Circle, my Warden would attempt to do it. Anders didn't make a deal with a demon - he made a deal with a spirit that he believed was good, and that my Warden also knew and believed was good. He wasn't in control of himself when he killed the Templars, just as Connor wasn't in control when he killed the people in Redcliffe Castle.
My Warden would undoubtably kept him confined while she sought assistance, and would defend herself if he attacked her, but executing him in cold blood would be a tough decision.

The problem is that Anders knew better,and so in this case it's death by Darwin.  If you listen to the banter, you hear Justice becoming closer and closer to a demonic spirit in DAA.  -Polaris

You don't just hear it in the banter - Justice actually mentions envying mortals and understanding demons better directly to the Warden. And Anders is one angry mage with a serious chip on his shoulder - certainly, he has had a rough life, but he makes the mistake of thinking life's just unfair for the mages. As far as my city elves and dwarven casteless are concerned - he does a whole lot of whining over nothing.

[IanPolaris]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Miri1984 wrote...

@Polaris I think I will reserve judgement on the "clearly an abomination" thing until I see a bit more of his character.

I don't have to.  Demon?  Check.  Possessing a mage? Check.  Mage can't (reliably) control it?  Check.

Abomination....and I'm usually sympathetic to mages, but Anders is an open-and-shut case, and I blame Bioware for making us "suffer" for not being sufficiently sympathetic to the Chantry position.

-Polaris

If the Chantry had given more freedom to mages, and if mages weren't treated like pariahs/public menaces by pretty much everyone, then this situation might not exist. If Anders and all other mages had been free, then Anders would either not have made a deal with Justice or would at least be a lot healthier emotionally and possibly function as a host like Wynne.

Being in solitary confinement for a year or however long it was that Anders was stuck by himself with that cat? I think that's the kind of oppressive treatment that leads to a great deal of resentment, hate and anger. The poor guy only wanted to be free and chase skirts. If anything, this makes me even less sympathetic to the Chantry point of view - thppt.  It may be possible to help the merged Anders & Vengeance/Justice  achieve some sort of stability and reliable control (perhaps turning the Vengeance part of him back into Justice, even if he's no longer a distinct and separate being).

I agree with all of this and it also makes me less sympathetic to the Templars than I was before (and that's not easy).  I also resent Bioware for ruining one of my favorite characters and making me do the Templar's dirty work.

IN SPITE of this, however, Anders has become a murderous abomination.  He has to die, whatever my sympathies are.  If I don't do it as a mage, then the idea of mages being able to police themselves becomes a sick joke.

-Polaris

[Felene]

Batteries wrote...

He probably only killed the templars/wardens because they were trying to kill him.

.... Cannot account for the blood drinking, flesh eating part.

I'm digging him more and more each day.

I know the top of page rule.

'snip

OMG!

/squee~

Modifié par Felene, 15 février 2011 - 06:34 .

[Minxie]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Batteries wrote...

He probably only killed the templars/wardens because they were trying to kill him.

.... Cannot account for the blood drinking, flesh eating part.

I'm digging him more and more each day.

I know the top of page rule.
*snip*

Wow..... that's the saddest yet hottest pic of Anders I've seen yet

Ugh, I'm so going to play my magehawke as someone who REALLY hates the Circle concept.....

Indeed. I just wanna hug the poor guy.

[atheelogos]

makalathbonagin wrote...

lols have you seen these

some serious WTF...

Comic was great!! LMFAO :O:lol::lol:I haven't laughed that hard at thread post in a long time thank you

[Threeparts]

IanPolaris wrote...

I agree with all of this and it also makes me less sympathetic to the Templars than I was before (and that's not easy).  I also resent Bioware for ruining one of my favorite characters and making me do the Templar's dirty work.

IN SPITE of this, however, Anders has become a murderous abomination.  He has to die, whatever my sympathies are.  If I don't do it as a mage, then the idea of mages being able to police themselves becomes a sick joke.

-Polaris

I'm curious, Polaris, as to what kind of player you are. Do you do a single playthrough making the decisions that you yourself would make in those situations, or do you do multiple playthroughs with a variety of character personalities?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with either method, and I'm not setting you up for a personal attack or anything, but the way you talk makes it sound as if there is no world where you could find it possible to spare Anders.
I understand that you're angry that BW has changed one of your favourites for the worse, but isn't it still possible to explore his character and story in spite of that?

[IanPolaris]

Threeparts wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I agree with all of this and it also makes me less sympathetic to the Templars than I was before (and that's not easy).  I also resent Bioware for ruining one of my favorite characters and making me do the Templar's dirty work.

IN SPITE of this, however, Anders has become a murderous abomination.  He has to die, whatever my sympathies are.  If I don't do it as a mage, then the idea of mages being able to police themselves becomes a sick joke.

-Polaris

I'm curious, Polaris, as to what kind of player you are. Do you do a single playthrough making the decisions that you yourself would make in those situations, or do you do multiple playthroughs with a variety of character personalities?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with either method, and I'm not setting you up for a personal attack or anything, but the way you talk makes it sound as if there is no world where you could find it possible to spare Anders.
I understand that you're angry that BW has changed one of your favourites for the worse, but isn't it still possible to explore his character and story in spite of that?

Not for me.  Anders is forevermore and completely ruined for me.  I do do multiple playtroughs to learn the world, but I will always kill Anders and I will be angry with Bioware everytime I do.  Somethings are fundamental enough that I won't do it another way, and letting a clear and dangerous abomination live is one of them.

-Polaris

[AtreiyaN7]

IanPolaris wrote...

I agree with all of this and it also makes me less sympathetic to the Templars than I was before (and that's not easy).  I also resent Bioware for ruining one of my favorite characters and making me do the Templar's dirty work.

IN SPITE of this, however, Anders has become a murderous abomination.  He has to die, whatever my sympathies are.  If I don't do it as a mage, then the idea of mages being able to police themselves becomes a sick joke.

-Polaris

Yeah. I can understand taking a hard-line stance on abominations as a general rule. I had zero problem offing Uldred; however, due to the circumstances, I'm willing to give Anders a little latitude first before making any final decisions. If Anders can be brought back to something close to normal, then I think he and Justice/Vengeance might deserve a chance. That being said, if he proves to be a menace and there's no way to fix things, well, I suppose he'd have to be...killed. *sniffles a bit*

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 15 février 2011 - 06:41 .