62 réponses à ce sujet

[NinjaRogue]

*Spoilers*

 Am I the only one that wishs you had the option to forgive Rendon Howe of his crimes and just knock him out or something of the sort? I just  have an epic scene in mine where Cousland is about to kill him and at the last minute stops and says "You're not even worth it."  

Not that I would do it all the time, but I think it would have been a pretty cool choice....
 
And yes, this is my Christianity showing I like stories where forgiveness is able to be given.....Then he could have been put on trial.

Modifié par NinjaRogue, 09 février 2011 - 12:18 .

[ejoslin]

Howe doesn't seem at all repentant. Something to do with that line, what was it?

Howe: I made your mother kiss my feet as she died. It was the last thing your father saw. Meet my sword and try to change that!

There's another line in there, I'm not sure if it can be triggered (but by the time I'm done, it will be)

Howe: Your parents died on their knees, your brother's corpse rots in Ostagar, and his brat was burned on a scrap heap along with his Antivan **** of a wife.

Edit: I see why that line wasn't triggering for me.  Gah, I hate all the data entry errors.  It would trigger for some people, though.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 février 2011 - 12:42 .

[Ferretinabun]

"Am I the only one that wishs you had the option to forgive Rendon Howe of his crimes and just knock him out or something of the sort?"



In short, quite possibly. I expect you'll find a lot of people who'd willingly give him a far more drawn out and grisly death, but I imagine getting sympathy for Howe on here would be like trying to get a French kiss from the Pope.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yes, I wish we had that option. Only because I think it's imprudent to murder an Arl / Teyrn right before a Landsmeet.

[Dark Specie]

Forgive? No. But if there was an option to have him dragged before the Landsmeet and have him executed on the spot there, knowing that all his plans had been ruined, his family name disgraced and that he'd lose everything to the Warden, then yes.



But again, forgive? No. Loghain, I may forgive on the basis that he acted out of a misguided sense of what was right to do, sorta, but Howe was a full-blown opportunist who, unlike Loghain, shows no remorse or regret whatsoever.

[NinjaRogue]

True, True, I ain't saying he doesn't get killed. I am saying, have the Cousland do the bigger thing, and bring him to trial. I mean I know of some places to put him until I crown Alistar king and have Grace the queen. His own prison perhaps. Forgiveness does not mean he escapes justice.

[HolyAvenger]

ejoslin wrote...

Howe doesn't seem at all repentant. Something to do with that line, what was it?

Howe: I made your mother kiss my feet as she died. It was the last thing your father saw. Meet my sword and try to change that!

There's another line in there, I'm not sure if it can be triggered (but by the time I'm done, it will be)

Howe: Your parents died on their knees, your brother's corpse rots in Ostagar, and his brat was burned on a scrap heap along with his Antivan **** of a wife.

Edit: I see why that line wasn't triggering for me.  Gah, I hate all the data entry errors.  It would trigger for some people, though.

I got both of those on my HMN playthrough. After I dealt with his support it was very satisfying for my Cousland to slice-and-dice him one-on-one.

I think Howe's not shown any redeeming qualities in the game (unlike, say, Loghain) so there's very little reason to forgive him (torture, slavery, betrayal, murder...there's quite a list of reasons).

[NinjaRogue]

HolyAvenger wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Howe doesn't seem at all repentant. Something to do with that line, what was it?

Howe: I made your mother kiss my feet as she died. It was the last thing your father saw. Meet my sword and try to change that!

There's another line in there, I'm not sure if it can be triggered (but by the time I'm done, it will be)

Howe: Your parents died on their knees, your brother's corpse rots in Ostagar, and his brat was burned on a scrap heap along with his Antivan **** of a wife.

Edit: I see why that line wasn't triggering for me.  Gah, I hate all the data entry errors.  It would trigger for some people, though.

I got both of those on my HMN playthrough. After I dealt with his support it was very satisfying for my Cousland to slice-and-dice him one-on-one.

I think Howe's not shown any redeeming qualities in the game (unlike, say, Loghain) so there's very little reason to forgive him (torture, slavery, betrayal, murder...there's quite a list of reasons).

There is a story about a girl who forgave a man who killed her parents and he changed big time, it is a true story,but that's not the point of this thread.

If not forgiviness, at least spare him and put him on trial. Killing him in his own (stolen) house, seems like I did the same thing he did to me. While this might seem rewarding to you, and it does to me. When I start thinking about it....I wish I could spare him and have him put on Trial. 

[HolyAvenger]

Agree to disagree I suppose. In essence I see nothing wrong with including that option IF you are inclined to RP your character that way.

[NinjaRogue]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Agree to disagree I suppose. In essence I see nothing wrong with including that option IF you are inclined to RP your character that way.

Agreed.

Sometimes I would like to RP my character like that, sometimes she is a vengful female mabari 

Modifié par NinjaRogue, 09 février 2011 - 01:13 .

[ejoslin]

HolyAvenger wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Howe doesn't seem at all repentant. Something to do with that line, what was it?

Howe: I made your mother kiss my feet as she died. It was the last thing your father saw. Meet my sword and try to change that!

There's another line in there, I'm not sure if it can be triggered (but by the time I'm done, it will be)

Howe: Your parents died on their knees, your brother's corpse rots in Ostagar, and his brat was burned on a scrap heap along with his Antivan **** of a wife.

Edit: I see why that line wasn't triggering for me.  Gah, I hate all the data entry errors.  It would trigger for some people, though.

I got both of those on my HMN playthrough. After I dealt with his support it was very satisfying for my Cousland to slice-and-dice him one-on-one.

I think Howe's not shown any redeeming qualities in the game (unlike, say, Loghain) so there's very little reason to forgive him (torture, slavery, betrayal, murder...there's quite a list of reasons).

Yeh, the wrong flag is used, so if you didn't confront Howe when you met at Eamon's denerim estate, you get that line, but it's supposed to be the opposite way around.

[jacobdg]

There should've been an option to torture him, then kill him. While it is cruel, my characters ruthless. And he pretty much deserves any type of punishment.

[NinjaRogue]

jacobdg wrote...

There should've been an option to torture him, then kill him. While it is cruel, my characters ruthless. And he pretty much deserves any type of punishment.

I have also thought that too with some of my characters.

[Ferretinabun]

Perhaps the question is WHOSE trial.

I know it's a fantasy world, but in the medieval world, so-called 'justice' was often quite a sham. The rich and powerful bribed, threatened and bullied the courts. Some countries had private courts where rich patrons would simply get their way every time. And in some countries law was practically non-existant - something to pay lip-service to, or appear to be upholding while mafia style havoc reigned.

The concept of an independant, neutral and - most importantly - empowered justice system is a relatively modern one.

Howe was a powerful and well-entrenched figure in Denerim. It's more than feasible he may not have been found guilty at a trial.

[erilben]

Loghain is suppose to be unforgivable according to Mary Kirby. Sparing Loghain is just a character defining choice. They could have done it with Howe, too. Instead you are forced to kill Howe which then makes it give no meaning for your character. Also, it's kind of strange the other origins get choices with their Howe equivelent.

[Notmarki]

If it was a real thing. And that was my brothers wife and child. My mum and dad. I'd hope for an option to pull his eyes out and make him eat them. What a disgusting man, bioware sure know how to stir up real emotions for their characters.

Plus i don't thing nathaniel's story would work if his dad survived heh

[Ferretinabun]

To be fair, if you're not playing the Human Noble character, how much do you really know about Howe? Surely just that he's been collecting titles under Loghain's regency and that he's imprisoned the Queen. Yes, he has his own torture dungeon, but would that be so unusual?Perhaps he doesn't seem quite the Satan-in-human-form to a non-HN warden, especially compared to some of the other unsavory characters you've already come across.

[NinjaRogue]

If doing the right thing failed, Grace is known to have connections with the "Dark Wolf"

[Glorfindel709]

"Killing him in his own (stolen) house, seems like I did the same thing he did to me."



You: Rescue tortured prisoners (or kill one if you're not into releasing rapists), save the Queen, kill people who are pratically throwing themselves onto your swords in eagerness to die, and kill a man who destabilizes the entire northern part of Ferelden by killing the Teryn of Highever and claiming a buttload of power for himself.



Him: Sneak men into the castle of the man you spent the afternoon reminiscing your friendship with and who considers you to be his best friend, stab him in the back, have your men slaughter defenseless elven servants, women, and a child, and then as you later find out humiliates and tortures your mother and father in their dying moments. "I deserved more."



I see quite a bit of a difference, but that might just be me. The only thing Howe deserved more of was more pain and a slow brutal ending.

[jacobdg]

Exactly, I wish him a slow painful death. Not a quick one, he certainly deserved it.

[NinjaRogue]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

"Killing him in his own (stolen) house, seems like I did the same thing he did to me."

You: Rescue tortured prisoners (or kill one if you're not into releasing rapists), save the Queen, kill people who are pratically throwing themselves onto your swords in eagerness to die, and kill a man who destabilizes the entire northern part of Ferelden by killing the Teryn of Highever and claiming a buttload of power for himself.

Him: Sneak men into the castle of the man you spent the afternoon reminiscing your friendship with and who considers you to be his best friend, stab him in the back, have your men slaughter defenseless elven servants, women, and a child, and then as you later find out humiliates and tortures your mother and father in their dying moments. "I deserved more."

I see quite a bit of a difference, but that might just be me. The only thing Howe deserved more of was more pain and a slow brutal ending.

Perspective. Howe thought he deserved more and thought he was dealiing with traitors to the throne. *Never should have read Wizards First Rule*

[Notmarki]

I would love to wedgie him as he says i deserved more. Just to give him that last bit of embarrassment lol

[Glorfindel709]

Where exactly does Howe state that the Couslands were traitors to the throne and he was taking care of them? I mean, it's a good *excuse* as to why he would do it should it come out into the light, but fact remains that based on the character we are introduced to in the game, Arl Howe is a violent, manipulative, power hungry man who always wants more (as evidenced by his dying words).

[ejoslin]

Ferretinabun wrote...

To be fair, if you're not playing the Human Noble character, how much do you really know about Howe? Surely just that he's been collecting titles under Loghain's regency and that he's imprisoned the Queen. Yes, he has his own torture dungeon, but would that be so unusual?Perhaps he doesn't seem quite the Satan-in-human-form to a non-HN warden, especially compared to some of the other unsavory characters you've already come across.

As a city elf, you know he lead a purge against the Alienage if you tell the guard you want in.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 février 2011 - 01:44 .

[ejoslin]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Where exactly does Howe state that the Couslands were traitors to the throne and he was taking care of them? I mean, it's a good *excuse* as to why he would do it should it come out into the light, but fact remains that based on the character we are introduced to in the game, Arl Howe is a violent, manipulative, power hungry man who always wants more (as evidenced by his dying words).

Warden: Why betray us, Howe? My father was your friend!
Howe: A clumsy appeal, child. He was a traitor to me and a coward to his nation! Trips to Orlais, gifts from old enemies; all while I sank in obscurity. (Disgusted "You don't know how the world works. His hard work squeezed me out of my money and fame.")
Howe: Your family squandered glory that was rightfully mine. How suitable that their deaths should raise me to the ear of a king. (Venemous, turning to what he believes is justification. "You cheated me out of my free ride. I'm only taking what I deserve.")
Howe: If you think you can take this from me, that I will allow it, you are very much mistaken! (Last line before a fight he thinks he'll win. Growing confident rage. "I've done too much for a pissant like you to ruin it now. You are nothing!")