116 réponses à ce sujet

[Breakdown Boy]

In all fairness I guess the VS deserves the DLC. I do like Ash and her whole LI letter afterwards was a good after thought. But on a personal note, they should make the Kaiden and Ash versions of the DLC different. As in make sure Kaiden dies, then they can focus on Ash.



Just my personal taste. We all ready have a boring human male on the Normandy, two is a bit much and another hot chick on board is much better.

[AkiKishi]

I really think they should have killed the other VS on Horizon and had done with it for good. Maybe you could have found them dying and had a few parting words, seems like a good exit.

Breakdown Boy wrote...

In all fairness I guess the VS deserves the DLC. I do like Ash and her whole LI letter afterwards was a good after thought. But on a personal note, they should make the Kaiden and Ash versions of the DLC different. As in make sure Kaiden dies, then they can focus on Ash.

I don't think DLC should be a "fanpack". There was a lot of Liara in Lair, but plenty of other reason to make it as well. Sets up well for ME3, being able to redo companion skills was useful etc.

Doing an A/K DLC just nets you less than doing one for any other character. So unless there is a good plot reason for it I don't see a need. Same goes with them being in ME3.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 12:15 .

[Breakdown Boy]

@ErrolD



Shep saves the VS as well. No trust.

[Whatever42]

Agree with those who say it should focus on VS. Agree with those who say it should set up ME3 like LotSB.

VS is still working for alliance. I think it should focus on some special project they're working on, something that requires Shepard. Maybe there is a traitor in the alliance and they don't know who to trust (we've already seen they're paranoid). So they turn to Shepard.

Since LotSB featured a rogue council agent, showing again how they suck, I think it should have a rogue Cerberus agent, allowing paragon Shepard to reveal to the VS that they're still fighting the good fight. TIM will forgive because he never authorized it.

And with the Cerberus agent dealt with, the project of the VS suceeds, resulting in a powerful new tool/weapon that Shep can use in ME3, something that again frees him from both paragon and renegade factions, allowing him to choose freeling between them in the end.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 09 février 2011 - 12:34 .

[Funkcase]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I really think they should have killed the other VS on Horizon and had done with it for good. Maybe you could have found them dying and had a few parting words, seems like a good exit.

Yeah and ****** off alot of fans much more. You're pretty selfish to want that, just becuase you dont like them, alot of people do. Geez, if Bioware killed them both off just becuase they found it hard, or becuase some idiots cant handle characters with good depth. Bioware would be a pretty lame, and lazy developer, proving they cant live up to there promises if they did that.

BobSmith101 wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

In all fairness I guess the VS deserves the DLC. I do like Ash and her whole LI letter afterwards was a good after thought. But on a personal note, they should make the Kaiden and Ash versions of the DLC different. As in make sure Kaiden dies, then they can focus on Ash.

I don't think DLC should be a "fanpack". There was a lot of Liara in Lair, but plenty of other reason to make it as well. Sets up well for ME3, being able to redo companion skills was useful etc.

Doing an A/K DLC just nets you less than doing one for any other character. So unless there is a good plot reason for it I don't see a need. Same goes with them being in ME3.

It wouldn't be just some ''fan pack'', the VS are Shepards last true tie's to the Alliance, they are doing top secret work directly from Anderson, there is the lack of Alliance in ME2, and the whole Alliance/Cerberus thing. There's alot of room for a great story there.

If you dont like them fine, but dont post that bullsh*t about ''how we dont need them in ME3'' we dont need Garrus in ME3, or any of the ME2 or 1 squad really, Bioware could just replace them all if they wanted to.

Modifié par Funkcase, 09 février 2011 - 12:48 .

[Jack Package]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

@ Jack Package

Why the hell should it be one or the other, can't we get more than one DLC before ME3?

- Well, sadly they announced that there will be one last "story bridging" DLC that will connect ME 2 to ME 3. If there would be more than that I would approve of some Garrus content, liking the character myself. But since it's the last DLC they will do, I hope they include Ashley/Kaidan.

Breakdown Boy wrote...

The thing is this, Garrus is badass and the VS is half dead.

I like Ash and all that but I feel like they told me to '****** off' in my time of need while Garrus backed me up.

He honored the bro code, while the VS were faders!

- It is irrelevant what Garrus is or is not. The upcoming DLC will not be a prize for the character that is considered as the most badass or bro-ish. When they would have announced a "Play as ..." DLC then your wish would be valid, but they have not.

- I will not talk about Garrus behaviour but still I can't let your post just stand like that. Garrus was a vigilante, with no ties after his team died.
The VS however is still an Alliance soldier. She or he has to follow orders. And then Shep comes along, working for an enemy of the Alliance. Without having tried to contact  the VS. The VS saw Shep die and still he is alive and well and works for Cerberus. That all must look a bit dubious. You can't seriously expect that the VS will ignore orders and desert the Alliance and join a terrorist organisation (seeing it from the VS viewpoint). That would be treason and it would result in the VS landing at the court-martial.
Also the VS does not tell you to "****** off"... When you choose respectful dialogue options Ash/Kaidan only shows her/his confusion and refuses to come along. You can't blame them for being loyal soldiers.

Modifié par Jack Package, 09 février 2011 - 12:47 .

[Jack Package]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

1. The people on Omega called him Archangel! What did the people of Horizon call the VS, 'that alliance rep'.

2. Garrus caused so much trouble for the biggest merc bands in the galaxy that the yall band up and tried to kill, he survived for days on his own taking countless merc down. While the VS tried to shoot bugs with an assault rifle, and missed (duh).

3. Garrus led a successfull team of specialists in many succesfull mission, showing great leadership abilities. The VS could not even get the colonists to run away from obvious danger of the approaching collector ship.

4. Response to Shepard trying to recruit them (rough translation) Garrus: "Just like old times!"

VS: "I trusted you Shep..blahblahblahblah..I don't trust Cerberus..blahblahblah....goodluck commander (on the suicide mission) I'm gonna go rat on you to the council!

5. Garrus helps Shepard save the galaxy yet again. The VS sits on the citedal sucking up to the council.

Who gets point's for what now?

Dear lord, how can you even compare the 2 settings???

[Telemachus78]

No no no no no           no no no no           no             no                       noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

That'll be all

[Breakdown Boy]

@JackP



Just had to make it clear which one had Shep's back, that's all.



Even if VS could not join Shep it still pissed me off when they said, "The council can decide whether or not they believe your storie!" I'm like WTF, I just saved you from becoming a Collector smoothy and you still don't believe me. (That's the undertone of what their saying, they don't believe you, they think you are some weak ass punk who gets minipulated by Cerberus and not Commander ****ing Shepard the savior of the galaxy!) Garrus on the other hand knows who you are and makes a decision.

[Ieldra]

*I do not want to play as Garrus. I want to play as Miranda.

*I do not want Kaidan dead.



So:



(Sten's voice): NO!

[AkiKishi]

Funkcase wrote...

Yeah and ****** off alot of fans much more. You're pretty selfish to want that, just becuase you dont like them, alot of people do. Geez, if Bioware killed them both off just becuase they found it hard, or becuase some idiots cant handle characters with good depth. Bioware would be a pretty lame, and lazy developer, proving they cant live up to there promises if they did that.

It wouldn't be just some ''fan pack'', the VS are Shepards last true tie's to the Alliance, they are doing top secret work directly from Anderson, there is the lack of Alliance in ME2, and the whole Alliance/Cerberus thing. There's alot of room for a great story there.

If you dont like them fine, but dont post that bullsh*t about ''how we dont need them in ME3'' we dont need Garrus in ME3, or any of the ME2 or 1 squad really, Bioware could just replace them all if they wanted to.

Better to do that let them rant for a month or two and then be able to move on without the baggage. You are correct in that I don't find then particularly interesting. But my view would be the same regardless of which two were associated with Virmire. It's just not worth the baggage having them split like that.We see it in ME2 with their almost identical presentation on Horizon.

If it were one or the other I'd have no problem with it. But writing two side stories mean you get less out of the DLC pushing the plot forwards than you would with a single character because you have to either have 2 versions, or clone everything like on Horizon which is pretty weak since one is a biotic and the other a soldier.

They have a tenuous connection in ME2 at best anyone who never played ME (that's all the PS3 players) would not have much idea who they are only that one lives and one dies, thats IF you have the comic download.
Garrus was a large part of ME2 so regardless of how you feel about him he's known to anyone who played that game regardless of platform. Ashley and Kaiden are not.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 01:55 .

[Captain Crash]

Would it not be pure awesome to play as Zaeed during his stint on Turian Frigate?!


Take the thing down from the inside and be the only one to make it back alive?!


Ok point being, you can take scenario's from everyone of your squad mates backstories and people are always going to have a personnel preference to missions and characters.

Plus people want a story which is progressive and going forwards. Expanding on the ME universe. Going back in time and doing a mission which you already know the outcome will do little to add to the overall arcing plot of ME. Ok Bioware could throw in a unknown twist but it would be pretty thin and certainly not anything "bridging".

Although I do like Garrus, this would be very low down on list of potential DLC content I would want. If this came out over a Kaidan/Ash DLC for example I would be fuming. I dont want to relive a past squadmate mission where there is still a lot of further explanation needed at present for far more important topics.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 09 février 2011 - 01:48 .

[Squeeze the Fish]

For the record...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

2. Garrus caused so much trouble for the biggest merc bands in the galaxy that the yall band up and tried to kill, he survived for days on his own taking countless merc down. While the VS tried to shoot bugs with an assault rifle, and missed (duh).

He defended a chokepoint and had a turkey shoot, killing rookie mercs... And I don't believe he would have fared any better than the VS on Horizon. The threat level of the Collectors is slightly higher than that of a bunch of hired goons, imo.
 
That was just what was happening when Shepard found him. He had been causing the mercs trouble for months before that. Also, he wasn't defending that point "for days" it was around one day.

3. Garrus led a successfull team of specialists in many succesfull mission, showing great leadership abilities. The VS could not even get the colonists to run away from obvious danger of the approaching collector ship.

Again, the Collectors are the more dangerous opponent and there was no way the scene on Horizon could have ended differently for the VS and the colonists.

Also, Garrus team was killed, that's does not qualifiy him as great leader.

Right. Because no good leader has ever been betrayed.

4. Response to Shepard trying to recruit them (rough translation) Garrus: "Just like old times!"
VS: "I trusted you Shep..blahblahblahblah..I don't trust Cerberus..blahblahblah....goodluck commander (on the suicide mission) I'm gonna go rat on you to the council!

That's true. But the VS has been informed about the rumours that Shepard faked his death and his affiliation with Cerberus. When he/she sees Shepard on Horizon, they must think that those rumours are indeed true. It's only natural of them to react suspicious in that situation. Add to that the after efffects of the paralysation, which probably doesn't help any person to make very good calls in a confusing environment.

Didn't you just mention something about the Collecters/Reapers being a bigger threat or "more dangerous opponent" i.e. a bigger deal than any personal issues VS might have had with Shepard/Cerberus? That only counts in one instance, but not another?

5. Garrus helps Shepard save the galaxy yet again. The VS sits on the citedal sucking up to the council.

That's an assumption. We don't know what the VS has been doing before Horizon, nor do we know what they are doing afterwards. Maybe we'll find out in a DLC?

I agree.

Who gets point's for what now?

Garrus gets points for trusting Shepard after his life has been saved by the Commander. That's it.

I would argue that Garrus gets a lot more points than that. What? He didn't have any right to be suspicious about Shepard's sudden revival? He doesn't get any points for joining a mission backed by a team of pro-humanity-no-matter-what zealots?

I don't think you're being fair or objective about Garrus' character/role in the game.

That said, I don't think you're wrong about VS either, but you don't have to pit one against the other. I would agree that if any of the LIs were going to get a DLC, then VS would be a good place to start.

Peace

Modifié par Squeeze the Fish, 09 février 2011 - 02:01 .

[Jack Package]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

@JackP

Just had to make it clear which one had Shep's back, that's all.

Even if VS could not join Shep it still pissed me off when they said, "The council can decide whether or not they believe your storie!" I'm like WTF, I just saved you from becoming a Collector smoothy and you still don't believe me. (That's the undertone of what their saying, they don't believe you, they think you are some weak ass punk who gets minipulated by Cerberus and not Commander ****ing Shepard the savior of the galaxy!) Garrus on the other hand knows who you are and makes a decision.

You didn't read my post and that by Errol, did you?

As it was said, rumours that Shep faked his death and is working for Cerberus had been spread and when the VS sees Shep with Cerberus this ofc seems to prove these rumours. What sounds more plausible? That Shepard was brought back to life in a fancy space station in a ridiculously expensive and difficult process or that he wasn't dead in the first place. I am sorry but all evidence the VS has points to Shep working for Cerberus. And not to him being mAnipulated by Cerberus, but rather to him doing it deliberately.
And that you save Ash/Kaidan does not prove that you are not working for Cerberus! What is that for an conclusion??
And the quote, well what should they say about the council??? It is not that the VS could make the council believe Shepard. xD

Garrus on the other hand has heard none of the rumours about Shepard faking his death and working for Cerberus. Also, he has nowhere else to go. It is not that he can really decide. The VS can decide between staying loyal and betraying the Alliance. It would speak poorly about their character if they abandoned their duty.
If Garrus was a soldier of the Turian military, similar to the VS, the hell would he go with Shepard.

Modifié par Jack Package, 09 février 2011 - 02:19 .

[Squeeze the Fish]

Garrus on the other hand has heard none of the rumours about Shepard faking his death and working for Cerberus. Also, he has nowhere else to go. It is not that he can really decide. The VS can decide between staying loyal and betraying the Alliance. It would speak poorly about their character if they abandoned their duty.
If Garrus was a soldier of the Turian military, similar to the VS, the hell would he go with Shepard.

I would disagree. Turians understand the need for "total war". If Garrus were in the turain miliary and actually believed Shepard about the Reapers (like VS did), I don't know that he wouldn't join Shepard to help fight "the greater fight".

Modifié par Squeeze the Fish, 09 février 2011 - 02:28 .

[Whatever42]

Garrus in inherently a renegade. He would think nothing of joining the renegade faction. Whatever it takes to get the job done, right?

The VS is a paragon. They would naturally be far more resistant to the idea.

Think of paragon Shep versus Renegade Shep. Paragon Shep whines constantly to TIM and shows deep mistrust. Paragon Shep likely runs straight to the council to get back Spectre status and only returns to Cerberus when its clear that the council won't help.

Renegade Shep is alright, lets get this thing done! No, I want to stay "dead". The inter-species council is dead anyway, I took care of those whiney creeps two years ago.

The VS and Garrus merely reflect those same attitudes. It's actually amusing to see some paragon players complain that they have to work with Cerberus but then also complain that their paragon teammate from ME1 feels exactly the same way.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 09 février 2011 - 02:36 .

[AkiKishi]

Squeeze the Fish wrote...
I would disagree. Turians understand the need for "total war". If Garrus were in the turain miliary and actually believed Shepard about the Reapers (like VS did), I don't know that he wouldn't join Shepard to help fight "the greater fight".

Because they are Alliance drones and never grew beyond that. They would only join if the Alliance ordered them to join, which means you would have to be Alliance again.Which itself introduces a whole other slew of problems.

Shepards outgrown the Alliance, he's outgrown Cerberus he has allies that will follow him just because of who he is, not because he's backed by an organisation.Like Miranda said "He's a bloody icon". 
Garrus is one of those Allies, how much pull Garrus has with the Taurians as a people though, not sure about that.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Not really. I like the character, but a DLC about him sounds to me like something made for pure fanservice and not something to move the story forward.

I'd rather have the story develop.

[Squeeze the Fish]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Not really. I like the character, but a DLC about him sounds to me like something made for pure fanservice and not something to move the story forward.
I'd rather have the story develop.

Agree

[Jack Package]

Squeeze the Fish wrote...

Garrus on the other hand has heard none of the rumours about Shepard faking his death and working for Cerberus. Also, he has nowhere else to go. It is not that he can really decide. The VS can decide between staying loyal and betraying the Alliance. It would speak poorly about their character if they abandoned their duty.
If Garrus was a soldier of the Turian military, similar to the VS, the hell would he go with Shepard.

I would disagree. Turians understand the need for "total war". If Garrus were in the turain miliary and actually believed Shepard about the Reapers (like VS did), I don't know that he wouldn't join Shepard to help fight "the greater fight".

Well yes, cou can disagree, that was of course hypothetical. Yet it is not that the VS didn't want to fight the reapers per se,... who knows what Ash or Kaidan is doing in that time. Also in the Horizon meeting Shepard does not really reveal much about the collectors+reapers connection.  What is important for me is the focus on Shepard and Cerberus. Cerberus is an enemy of both armies, the Alliance and the turian army. And if Garrus were in the exact same position like the VS, having heard the same things, being bound to his service in the military... I doubt that he would abandon the turian army and follow Shep.
Maybe I drifted a bit away from my point, my post sounds surely very harsh. - I just think that the accusations of the OP towards the VS are plainly ridiculous.

[Chignon]

They are not "Alliance drones."

Ash and Kaidan have shown time and time again that they can indeed think for themselves and act upon what they think is right. They mutineed with Shepard after all in ME1 and would have done so again. Both of them would have helped Shepard if they thought that s/he was "doing the right thing."
However, they did not agree with Shepard and his/her methods, hence why they did not join.

Oh, and:

Breakdown Boy wrote...

As in make sure Kaiden dies, then they can focus on Ash.

It's Kaidan, with an 'a'.

At least get the spelling right, yes?

[Chignon]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...



Not really. I like the character, but a DLC about him sounds to me like something made for pure fanservice and not something to move the story forward.

I'd rather have the story develop.

Why do you treat both as if they are mutually exclusive?



A DLC which would include Kaidan and Ash could be handled in various ways and could very well develop the story. For example, it could address the Cerberus/Alliance issue and have Shepard choose a side or Shepard could be contacted by Anderson to investigate a lead on the Reapers and team up with Ash or Kaidan.

[AkiKishi]

Chignon wrote...

They are not "Alliance drones."

Ash and Kaidan have shown time and time again that they can indeed think for themselves and act upon what they think is right. They mutineed with Shepard after all in ME1 and would have done so again. Both of them would have helped Shepard if they thought that s/he was "doing the right thing."
However, they did not agree with Shepard and his/her methods, hence why they did not join.

As characters they are defined by the their association with the Alliance, they never grow beyond it. I say it in the same way I'd call Miranda a Cerberus drone,which until the very end of ME2 when she tells her organisation to stick it and joins you she is.
Ashley/Kaiden never do that and theres really nothing that indicates they ever will.

[Chignon]

BobSmith101 wrote...

As characters they are defined by the their association with the Alliance, they never grow beyond it. I say it in the same way I'd call Miranda a Cerberus drone,which until the very end of ME2 when she tells her organisation to stick it and joins you she is.

Ashley/Kaiden never do that and theres really nothing that indicates they ever will.

She only does so if you take her with you in the last part of the Suicide Mission, otherwise no, she does not.

Secondly, you are not seriously comparing a Cerberus operative to an Alliance officer? Kaidan and Ashley serve the Alliance for a living and out of a sense of duty; they do not only have a certain responsibility for themselves and their what they do, but also for others.