BobSmith101 wrote...
As characters they are defined by the their association with the Alliance, they never grow beyond it. I say it in the same way I'd call Miranda a Cerberus drone,which until the very end of ME2 when she tells her organisation to stick it and joins you she is.
Ashley/Kaiden never do that and theres really nothing that indicates they ever will.
BobSmith101 wrote...
Chignon wrote...
They are not "Alliance drones."
Ash and Kaidan have shown time and time again that they can indeed think for themselves and act upon what they think is right. They mutineed with Shepard after all in ME1 and would have done so again. Both of them would have helped Shepard if they thought that s/he was "doing the right thing."
However, they did not agree with Shepard and his/her methods, hence why they did not join.
As characters they are defined by the their association with the Alliance, they never grow beyond it. I say it in the same way I'd call Miranda a Cerberus drone,which until the very end of ME2 when she tells her organisation to stick it and joins you she is.
Ashley/Kaiden never do that and theres really nothing that indicates they ever will.
Modifié par Jack Package, 09 février 2011 - 03:14 .
Chignon wrote...
She only does so if you take her with you in the last part of the Suicide Mission, otherwise no, she does not.
Secondly, you are not seriously comparing a Cerberus operative to an Alliance officer? Kaidan and Ashley serve the Alliance for a living and out of a sense of duty; they do not only have a certain responsibility for themselves and their what they do, but also for others.
Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Mutinying and helping steal the Normandy is being an alliance drone?
Jack Package wrote...
Miranda quits when she she gets the order to stop Shepard from blowing up a base that she considers a terrible place herself. This is a unique situation. Can't be compared to the situation of the VS. That you do this, speaks poorly of you.
Also you have no idea what work the VS is doing at that time. It is classified by the Alliance so it is something major. So how dare you judge something in what you have not the slightest insight?
Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 03:20 .
Breakdown Boy wrote...
@JackP
Just had to make it clear which one had Shep's back, that's all.
Even if VS could not join Shep it still pissed me off when they said, "The council can decide whether or not they believe your storie!" I'm like WTF, I just saved you from becoming a Collector smoothy and you still don't believe me. (That's the undertone of what their saying, they don't believe you, they think you are some weak ass punk who gets minipulated by Cerberus and not Commander ****ing Shepard the savior of the galaxy!) Garrus on the other hand knows who you are and makes a decision.
BobSmith101 wrote...
You only see her do it if she is with you however having her do it as part of the story would cause no conflict either because it's a fixed thing, it's only a case of whether or not you see it firsthand.
Miranda served Cerberus out of a sense of duty and gratitude don't see a difference except when it came time to choose she chose you and the bigger mission and they chose the Alliance over you.
Chignon wrote...
BobSmith101 wrote...
You only see her do it if she is with you however having her do it as part of the story would cause no conflict either because it's a fixed thing, it's only a case of whether or not you see it firsthand.
Miranda served Cerberus out of a sense of duty and gratitude don't see a difference except when it came time to choose she chose you and the bigger mission and they chose the Alliance over you.
A part of her story many players who do not take her with Shepard to the final part of the Suicide Mission will not see?
If you do not see a difference does not mean that there is not one. Miranda has a particular insight in how Shepard was retreived and resurrected as well as exlicitly more background information than Kaidan or Ashley could have ever had. Their situations are not comparable.
Guest_rynluna_*
FireEye wrote...
And I don't know what ME2 you played, but from what I saw on my screen, ME2 Shepard was some weak ass punk who got manipulated by Cerberus. Nothing at all resembling the Commander [expletive]ing Shepard who saved the galaxy in ME1.
Commander Shepard did get some of her soul back in the DLC which is a damn shame considering the rest of ME2 was more about all the cool ME2 squadmates and fixing their problems.
BobSmith101 wrote...
On the other hand I could not as a writer write in Ashely because she is a variable not a fixed story point. The player is perfectly justified in saying "In my game she is dead". But no one can say "In my game Miranda never left Cerberus". Only that they did not witness her do so.
BobSmith101 wrote...
On the other hand I could not as a writer write in Ashely because she is a variable not a fixed story point. The player is perfectly justified in saying "In my game she is dead". But no one can say "In my game Miranda never left Cerberus". Only that they did not witness her do so.
Chignon wrote...
BobSmith101 wrote...
On the other hand I could not as a writer write in Ashely because she is a variable not a fixed story point. The player is perfectly justified in saying "In my game she is dead". But no one can say "In my game Miranda never left Cerberus". Only that they did not witness her do so.
And the player is also perfectly justified in saying "In my game, Miranda is dead."
I'm sorry but your comparison makes no sense to me and I apologise if I misunderstood you, but Miranda is no less a "variable" or more of a "fixed story point" than Ashley. Miranda can die in the Suicide Mission just as Ashley can on Virmire.
Chignon wrote...
Da_Lion_Man wrote...
Not really. I like the character, but a DLC about him sounds to me like something made for pure fanservice and not something to move the story forward.
I'd rather have the story develop.
Why do you treat both as if they are mutually exclusive?
A DLC which would include Kaidan and Ash could be handled in various ways and could very well develop the story. For example, it could address the Cerberus/Alliance issue and have Shepard choose a side or Shepard could be contacted by Anderson to investigate a lead on the Reapers and team up with Ash or Kaidan.
BobSmith101 wrote...
Jack Package wrote...
Miranda quits when she she gets the order to stop Shepard from blowing up a base that she considers a terrible place herself. This is a unique situation. Can't be compared to the situation of the VS. That you do this, speaks poorly of you.
Also you have no idea what work the VS is doing at that time. It is classified by the Alliance so it is something major. So how dare you judge something in what you have not the slightest insight?
Ok I'll bite. I pulled their butts out of the fire on Vermire, we supposedely saved the Galaxy together and because I have a different logo I'm not trusted ? Speaks highly of their loyalty to the Alliance, not so much of their loyalty to me.
Tali finished her mission and joined up that speaks highly of her. A/K don't do that, the option was there but they never took it. They never asked for help with their mission. Is that the sort of loyalty Shepard needs ?
Modifié par Jack Package, 09 février 2011 - 03:42 .
Da_Lion_Man wrote...
But the thing is, Garrus isn't relevant to the plot of both ME1 and ME2 and at the moment, he has nothing that could make him more relevant.
Liara was looking for the Shadow Broker, having the SB on your side could be very useful.
Ashley/Kaidan are with the Alliance and the Alliance plays a big role.
What does Garrus have? He was a C-Spec Inspector and he had his own team back in Omega. Nothing important in the big scheme of things.
Besides, I can't shake the feeling that the people who want a Garrus DLC are doing it just because they want more Garrus fanservice.
Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 09 février 2011 - 03:44 .
BobSmith101 wrote...
I thought she had plot armour? Well put her in the same catagory as Ashley then. That's going to be a big problem in ME3 as I see it, it was bad enough with two redundant characters.
Modifié par FireEye, 09 février 2011 - 03:47 .
Jack Package wrote...
"not so much of their loyalty to me. " - When you arrive on Horizon you represent Cerberus. Deal with it.
"Tali finished her mission and joined up that speaks highly of her.
A/K don't do that, the option was there but they never took it." - Ash/Kaidan have not finished their mission. So again, your comparison fails. The option they had was to abandon their current mission and betray Alliance. Imagine how your beloved Tali would react when you asked her in the middle of her Heastrom project to abandon it and join you? xD Yeah, that would end well!
"Is that the sort of loyalty Shepard needs ?" - Soldies who fulfill their mission without letting personal things come in-bewteen. That is EXACTLY the loyalty a Commander needs.
Ah, btw, has anyone here romanced Ashley and received the e-Mail after Horizon? No? Well, explains a lot.
Chignon wrote...
Miranda does have plot armour, however, she can die like any of the other squadmates in the Suicide Mission. The only character who can not die is Liara.
Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 03:47 .
Slayer299 wrote...
I vote NO Garrus DLC, this is supposed to be Shepard's story. I want DLC relevant to ME3 not playing as someone else. Spinoffs *after* ME3 is fine.
FireEye wrote...Mass Effect: Dirge of Cerberus?
FireEye wrote...
All of the ME2 squatemates can die in the suicide mission, including Miranda. They're all in the same Schrödinger's box, as far as ME3 and Bridging DLC is concerned. At least for Kaidan and Ashley, their box is on a different shelf: one of them is still alive regardless.
Modifié par BobSmith101, 09 février 2011 - 03:54 .
BobSmith101 wrote...
Jack Package wrote...
"not so much of their loyalty to me. " - When you arrive on Horizon you represent Cerberus. Deal with it.
"Tali finished her mission and joined up that speaks highly of her.
A/K don't do that, the option was there but they never took it." - Ash/Kaidan have not finished their mission. So again, your comparison fails. The option they had was to abandon their current mission and betray Alliance. Imagine how your beloved Tali would react when you asked her in the middle of her Heastrom project to abandon it and join you? xD Yeah, that would end well!
"Is that the sort of loyalty Shepard needs ?" - Soldies who fulfill their mission without letting personal things come in-bewteen. That is EXACTLY the loyalty a Commander needs.
Ah, btw, has anyone here romanced Ashley and received the e-Mail after Horizon? No? Well, explains a lot.
Tali has a lot more reason to hate Cerberus than A/K does. Yet she trusts you enough to give you the benifit of the doubt.
I helped Tali complete her mission I'd have helped A/K complete theirs if asked. They never asked. I already pointed that out if you read it properly. I said nothing about abondoming the mission to come with me.
Chignon wrote...
Da_Lion_Man wrote...
But the thing is, Garrus isn't relevant to the plot of both ME1 and ME2 and at the moment, he has nothing that could make him more relevant.
Liara was looking for the Shadow Broker, having the SB on your side could be very useful.
Ashley/Kaidan are with the Alliance and the Alliance plays a big role.
What does Garrus have? He was a C-Spec Inspector and he had his own team back in Omega. Nothing important in the big scheme of things.
Besides, I can't shake the feeling that the people who want a Garrus DLC are doing it just because they want more Garrus fanservice.
It seems I misread your comment. I actually agree with you.
Apologies accepted?
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