12 réponses à ce sujet

[Jenna WSI]

Out of curiousity, do you keep any haks around for ease of use and switching between servers? Like lord of worms, sixthrice, cep, etc? 

We're planning on adding content and keeping the original name off the vault if other servers do the same, so that people only need download the hak once.

Modifié par Jenna WSI, 09 février 2011 - 06:13 .

[spool32]

I do keep some haks from the vault on my PC, but for Avlis we've rerolled a lot of that content in order to cut down on the downloading.



So, yes and no...

[The Amethyst Dragon]

No, but I don't really have time to visit other servers. I barely have time to log into my own for more than a few minutes a day.

As a PW builder, any custom content from the Vault that I use gets added to my own haks if it's not already in the CEP. It makes things easier for me to track, modify, and override, and easier for me to add my own content (since I do a lot of model, texture, and icon modifications and additions).

If I were a player and not a player/builder, I definitely would keep haks from multiple PWs on my HD. For servers that don't make their own haks, not having to download something again would make things easier (not worried about bandwidth/time, just convenience).

Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 09 février 2011 - 06:58 .

[Jenna WSI]

Thanks AD, we don't intend to mod the tileset haks (yet!) so that seems like the best bet. I just wanted to know if the method of retaining the original name was used by the community or not.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Jenna WSI wrote...

Thanks AD, we don't intend to mod the tileset haks (yet!) so that seems like the best bet. I just wanted to know if the method of retaining the original name was used by the community or not.

Yes, that was the intention of having community projects with their own names etc, so that a prospective player would NOT have to redownload content from all the different PW's each time they wanted to join a server.  If the PW owner sticks with the names of the original haks, then the player will likely already have the file, and won't have to download that portion of any custom content they need for that specific PW.  

Those PW's that insist on repackaging things into a single hak, or two, to make their management a little easier, are forcing the players to have multiple copies of the same content for no real gain at all to the builders ease of usage of that content.  It does mean that prospective players should be pointed to the correct content locations on the vault, but by doing that, the player can gain an updated version of a tileset in particular, that won't hurt or affect the PW owner.  Where is the PW owner has incorporated said tileset into their own custom hak, then that PW owner must update that hak, and the player has to re-download the entire updated hak from the PW again, just to grab a single tileset change.  IE, the compartmentalizing makes it easier to update content without afffecting multiple downloads all over the place.

Anyway, as a player, I keep hundreds of haks in my hak folder.  They do NOT affect ANY gameplay for any module that does not use them, they just get ignored.  However, I can play any PW that uses that content, without having to constantlly re-download copies of things.

From a PW owner viewpoint (I am not one) I have heard arguments for both types... those that use CC as it was originally released on the vault, and from those that insist on repackaging it into their own hak system on the off chance that they MIGHT make a change sometime in the far future.  Seldom does that actual change occur, but it does make it easier to send a set of files to the player if they only have to grab one or two files from the vault, vs the potential dozens.  Counter arguments are as mentioned above.  It is likely that most players will already have said content, and making them have a duplicate in another hak by a different name but otherwise identical, is just an enormous waste of space on their HD and a waste of download bandwidth duplicating something they already have.

Basically, I am saying don't repackage unless you are making a change to the content.  If all you are doing is editing a 2da or tlk reference, just place the changed 2da in a top hak, and there would be no need to duplicate the rest of the content.  If adding content, again, use a top hak, and place the additions in that hak, but leave the originals alone.  That will make YOUR download smaller, and allow the original to exist in original form without having to duplicate it.

[Karvon]

I DL and keep a lot of popular haks. PW haks, OTOH, get deleted as soon as I get bored of the place. I really dislike that some PWs insist on repackaging popular haks into massive custom ones rather than just managing 2da merges in top haks.



Karvon

[spool32]

Karvon wrote...

I DL and keep a lot of popular haks. PW haks, OTOH, get deleted as soon as I get bored of the place. I really dislike that some PWs insist on repackaging popular haks into massive custom ones rather than just managing 2da merges in top haks.

Karvon

It's a function of how much gets changed. Avlis eventually rerolled portions of CEP, our own updates and bugfixes from orphaned tilesets, and own developed content for all 9 servers into a single set of haks that you can use across the whole game world. Before then, there were nearly 30 different haks needed to play (depending on which servers you frequented). 

For us, rerolling with modifications was a huge win for our players and builders, not to mention making the QA effort far easier. 

[Jenna WSI]

I'm finding that I have to provide a part of the CEP edited for our server, just because it includes the parts 2da files inside the cep hak. Unless there's some work-around.

[The Amethyst Dragon]

spool32 wrote...

Karvon wrote...

I DL and keep a lot of popular haks. PW haks, OTOH, get deleted as soon as I get bored of the place. I really dislike that some PWs insist on repackaging popular haks into massive custom ones rather than just managing 2da merges in top haks.

Karvon

It's a function of how much gets changed. Avlis eventually rerolled portions of CEP, our own updates and bugfixes from orphaned tilesets, and own developed content for all 9 servers into a single set of haks that you can use across the whole game world. Before then, there were nearly 30 different haks needed to play (depending on which servers you frequented). 

For us, rerolling with modifications was a huge win for our players and builders, not to mention making the QA effort far easier. 

There is also the assurance in PW-specific haks of content always being available.  There have been times over the past years that content has been taken off the Vault, and any PWs that used those haks would not have them available for new players.  I know there's a few pieces that I've used in the last 6 years that are either no longer available on their own or can no longer be located.

Doing a PW-specific hak (or haks) can also make things convenient for players that don't want to go through dozens of different downloads to play on one PW.  Sure, you could have a webpage that provides links to every single hak needed (and all of them should, even if it's just a post on a free PW forum), but a single link with all of the files conveniently in one place makes things simpler.

Plus, when you use a lot of custom content (even if it is all from the Vault), there is a lot more work that goes into getting it all to properly function together than just 2da merges.  There's model renaming/renumbering, texture image adjustments, model fixes, tileset editing, and other changes that may need to be made to get the content looking and working nicely.

Do keep in mind though, that in my particular situation during the last 6 years of building, I've combined, merged, edited, fixed, and used content from well over 50 different submissions from the Vault, plus the CEP, plus several hundred MB of my own content.  Many PWs will not be in a similar situation.

I also understand that many players are turned off by large downloads before even being able to log into a game (and likely a reason Aenea doesn't usually have high numbers logged in at any one time).  At least it's easy to remove the Aenea-specific ones if a player decides they'd rather play elsewhere.

[Jenna WSI]

Wow, so some servers don't back up the files on a different download space? I find that really suprising. I haven't even made my haks yet and we're setting aside the correct version of CEP for downloading off our site for just that kind of issue.

[Karvon]

I can certainly appreciate the view of PWs, particularly those which are bigger and older, and which have often developed a lot of additional stuff/fixes/what-have-you. My gripe is with those that simply rebundle without adding anything particularly noteworthy to justify such.



Regards



Karvon

[Bannor Bloodfist]

Exactly

[Jenna WSI]

On the PRC, can you remove access to classes or feats without changing the hak/original files?