178 réponses à ce sujet

[Xebioz]

ironcreed2 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ironcreed2 wrote...

Even if a developer tries to find a middle ground, like with Dragon Age II, it is still not good enough.

Instead, they could make two smaller games - one for each group of fans.

Or, those who want to play more tactically and want more of a challenge can use the pause n' play function and increase the difficulty.

Tactics is not only about whether you can pause or not though. It's about things like positioning (flanking damage, backstab etc.), issuing commands (which should still be fine) and such. My main fear is that they have tried to make it go more smoothly to the extent where the tactics have been removed (well almost, we still have pause ), but saying that pausing and difficulty is everything there is to tactics is exaggerating.

[hawat333]

Yes, it is.



We could say it's because the tale is actually told by a dwarf rogue.

But we'll really only see it in the demo.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Xebioz wrote...

Tactics is not only about whether you can pause or not though. It's about things like positioning (flanking damage, backstab etc.), issuing commands (which should still be fine) and such.

For example, we know that the backstabbing someone no longer requires you be behind him.  You just need to be in range, and you'll automagically appear behind him for the attack.

There's no detail there.  That makes positioning irrelevant for backstabbing.

Now, if it's impossible to backstab someone when there's someone else behind him, that would matter (especially if you can still fire the ability, but it doesn't work).

We really need to play the game to see the degree of tactical management that's possible, let alone necessary.

And no, I'm not going to turn up the difficulty just to make the game harder.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 09 février 2011 - 09:33 .

[Last Vizard]

I haven't played an RPG that has made me think "thats a Mage" all i've seen so far are weak, the main charactor should be able to reach Macros the black's or Ashen Shugar tomas's lvl in abilities....(Raymond E. Feist)



sure a warrior will beat a mage in an armwrestle.... unless he uses strength spell, then the mage should be able to rip his arm off and beat the warrior to death with it in one hand and the table in the other... just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around

[DPB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

For example, we know that the backstabbing someone no longer requires you be behind him.  You just need to be in range, and you'll automagically appear behind him for the attack.

I'm not sure this is entirely correct. In the first 'making of' video, it shows Backstab, which is an ability with a cooldown.

Modifié par dbankier, 09 février 2011 - 09:45 .

[Martanek]

Daniteh wrote...

I mean we haven't played it yet, but it seems to me that the game will be alot more entertaining with less tactics and more DOING.

Did you not mistake DA2 with a different game of a different genre? Less tactics, more doing... Are these the people Bioware listens to when developing new consolized RPG's for new console audiences?

[Veex]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...

Yes, it does.

All of the actions look jerky because everything cuts from point a to point b, with all of the in between "transitionary" movements cut out to make it look faster, and I guess per the devs, more "awesome".

Looked really bad to me. This game is a sequel in name only, made to please the action crowd.

You had this issue in Origins also. Warriors and Rogues particularly would stop and start combat animations. It may not seem as glaring however because the pace of combat was so much slower. I'll take a responsive character with animation hitches over a sluggish, shuffling character with animation hitches. While I think some of the closing moves, particularly the aerial aspects of combat may be a little exaggerated, I'd still prefer them over the snail's pace that DA:O performed at.

[Sylvius the Mad]

dbankier wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

For example, we know that the backstabbing someone no longer requires you be behind him.  You just need to be in range, and you'll automagically appear behind him for the attack.

I'm not sure this is entirely correct. In the first 'making of' video, it shows Backstab, which is an ability with a cooldown.

Right, so it works like any other ability.

That's not tactical variety.

[Meltemph]

Backstab abilities were the only ones that required positioning of the player and made it incredibly easy to manipulate the AI rogues. If they did switch it to and ability, I'd say that makes it more strategic in terms of worrying about the enemy doing it.

[Martanek]

Super_Cat wrote...

I prefer the stylistic fantasy combat. Sure it's flashy and unrealistic, but it is a fantasy game.

I mean slinging fireballs is something normal humans could never do, but we accept that mages do it in Dragon Age. That doesn't mean warriors and rogues have to be limited to realism just because they are non-magical. The cool thing about fantasy Heroes is that they can break the limits of human ability.

"Cartoony" is not the same as "fantasy". What DA2 shows in combat is a supernatural RPG derivate of a Devil May Cry game. I really dislike any smell of cartoon in an RPG. But maybe I am getting old...

[Martanek]

connorthedragonslayer wrote...

People here really will complain about anything.

Would you be so kind and look up the meaning of "complain" in a dictionary? Thanks. It is never late to fill gaps in one's education.

[Fishy]

I take this




Not because it's real . Because it's kick ass and defy logic!

[Dreadstruck]

Martanek wrote...
"Cartoony" is not the same as "fantasy". What DA2 shows in combat is a supernatural RPG derivate of a Devil May Cry game. I really dislike any smell of cartoon in an RPG. But maybe I am getting old...

I sorta agree. "It's a fantasy" seems to be a really poor(or cheap?) excuse IMO. Is that a reason to throw  that lil' bit of a logic outta the window? I don't want flying unicorns doing mid-air battles like in those old chinese movies.
And don't worry, you are not getting old, just more nagging. Like me.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 09 février 2011 - 10:39 .

[Dhanik]

That settles it, then. DA2 is the medieval Street Fighter.

[NinjaRogue]

ironcreed2 wrote...

connorthedragonslayer wrote...

People here really will complain about anything.

Seems to me that complaining is all most gamers on any forum do these days. These types come off as being so jaded to the point that absolutely nothing is good enough anymore. Either "it's too dumbed down" or "they have not innovated enough". Even if a developer tries to find a middle ground, like with Dragon Age II, it is still not good enough.

Developers truly are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It must suck to bust your ass for months on end, trying to make everyone happy and then come to the forums and see all of this nit-picking, whining and bickering.

This.

[Meltemph]

"Cartoony" is not the same as "fantasy". What DA2 shows in combat is a supernatural RPG derivate of a Devil May Cry game. I really dislike any smell of cartoon in an RPG. But maybe I am getting old...

Just because you "say" it is, does not mean it is. Also, Devil May Cry was not cartoony, it was over the top. Hell Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon had a crap ton of " supernatural" combat, and "cartoony" is not how I would describe it.

[Meltemph]

NinjaRogue wrote...

ironcreed2 wrote...

connorthedragonslayer wrote...

People here really will complain about anything.

Seems to me that complaining is all most gamers on any forum do these days. These types come off as being so jaded to the point that absolutely nothing is good enough anymore. Either "it's too dumbed down" or "they have not innovated enough". Even if a developer tries to find a middle ground, like with Dragon Age II, it is still not good enough.

Developers truly are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It must suck to bust your ass for months on end, trying to make everyone happy and then come to the forums and see all of this nit-picking, whining and bickering.

This.

I don't think developers are damned at all.  All it does is marginalize the people who always have something to complain about or having to point out every dislike they have like its fact.

[HyperLimited]

Well, it's better than stomping around the battlefield like a doofus that got seperated from the conga line. As long as it plays better than Origins, I'm happy.

[Morroian]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Martanek wrote...

Does anybody else think that DA2's combat speed is a little exaggerated?

I think it looks too fast in the videos, but having not played I can't say that it actually is too fast.

This I don't think anyone can say different until they've played the demo.

[Blacklash93]

Repost:

The Animations just look really choppy in spots.

Going in and out of running/walking animations causes a lot stutter. Just stopping after a run makes a character warp into their standing stance and it looks really awkward. Characters just warp to the next animation with no transition.

This stuff happens occassionally in some games, but here it's happening all the time. Don't even get me started on the Rogue...

Anyone else agree?

Edit: God, I hate Stanely right now.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 09 février 2011 - 11:22 .

[tishyw]

Martanek wrote...

Does anybody else think that DA2's combat speed is a little exaggerated? To me, it looks too cartoonish, almost ridiculous, particularly when compared to the first DA game. I mean, is it realistic to have a Rogue Hawke flying like a ninja all over the battlefield, a Warrior Hawke swinging his sword extremely fast like it is a kitchen knife and so on. Unlike Bioware, I do not believe that the combat needed to be sped up. It needed to be polished and improved in certain areas but why speed it up like that and make it look almost like an animated cartoon action hack'n slash game?
BTW: Have you seen the way Varrick with his crossbow moves (hops) around the battlefield in one of those combat videos? Comments please...

I agree, it's jerky and looks to much like stop motion animation for me.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Yes, at least from what we have yet seen.

[Meltemph]

Does anybody else think that DA2's combat speed is a little exaggerated?

No, it just looks different. But since I thought most of the animations in DAO looked like me using the weapons, anything would be an improvement at this point. The animations "appear" to be faster at times, then others, depending on the video I am watching. So, I will wait to make a sure fired opinion when I actually see it in-game, while I am playing it. Until then I am relying on very random and inconsistent information.



On the plus side though, I get to listen to all these over reactions and "exaggerations" from people commenting on them. Makes for an entertaining read.

[Martanek]

Avalla'ch wrote...

Martanek wrote...
"Cartoony" is not the same as "fantasy". What DA2 shows in combat is a supernatural RPG derivate of a Devil May Cry game. I really dislike any smell of cartoon in an RPG. But maybe I am getting old...

I sorta agree. "It's a fantasy" seems to be a really poor(or cheap?) excuse IMO. Is that a reason to throw  that lil' bit of a logic outta the window? I don't want flying unicorns doing mid-air battles like in those old chinese movies.
And don't worry, you are not getting old, just more nagging. Like me.

It is always good to see a fellow whose judgment and common-sense has not been clouded by fanboyism and false enthusiasm. Especially these days, when some people's arguments are as shallow as a long dried-up river:happy: . And you can bet I'm gonna keep nagging! It is my nature, that's why I am so popular among my friends and at work likewise.

[Martanek]

Meltemph wrote...

"Cartoony" is not the same as "fantasy". What DA2 shows in combat is a supernatural RPG derivate of a Devil May Cry game. I really dislike any smell of cartoon in an RPG. But maybe I am getting old...

Just because you "say" it is, does not mean it is. Also, Devil May Cry was not cartoony, it was over the top. Hell Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon had a crap ton of " supernatural" combat, and "cartoony" is not how I would describe it.

So how would you do describe it then?