178 réponses à ce sujet

[jomonoe]

From what I've seen, the only thing that bothers me about the ampued up combat is the two handed style. I liked how slow it was in DA:O and hwo the animation made it feel like it was a real effort to swing a two handes sword. Not many RPG's treat heavy weapons as if they were actually heavy.



But now, in DA2, when I see Two handed Hawke fight, it feels like there is no effort in swinging the sword. I think he sometimes even swings it one handed. It feels very Advent Children to me.

[Morroian]

jomonoe wrote...

From what I've seen, the only thing that bothers me about the ampued up combat is the two handed style. I liked how slow it was in DA:O and hwo the animation made it feel like it was a real effort to swing a two handes sword. Not many RPG's treat heavy weapons as if they were actually heavy.

But now, in DA2, when I see Two handed Hawke fight, it feels like there is no effort in swinging the sword. I think he sometimes even swings it one handed. It feels very Advent Children to me.

DAO was too slow though, unrealistically so, there's been feedback from people who have actually used those weapons that they aren't actually as heavy as DAO made them look.

[Katana_Master]

I have no problem with 'exaggerated realism' as it's called. What I have a problem with is when you try to mix it with 'real' realism. By which I mean that if you're going to have cartoony animations with inhumanly fast movement speed, you shouldn't be trying to make the graphics feel unexaggerated.



If they slowed down the movement, or exaggerated the characters themselves, then it would looked matched. As it is, they haven't and they don't.



My two cents worth. I'm still gonna get the game, though.

[Solid N7]

Martanek wrote...

Does anybody else think that DA2's combat speed is a little exaggerated? To me, it looks too cartoonish, almost ridiculous, particularly when compared to the first DA game. I mean, is it realistic to have a Rogue Hawke flying like a ninja all over the battlefield, a Warrior Hawke swinging his sword extremely fast like it is a kitchen knife and so on. Unlike Bioware, I do not believe that the combat needed to be sped up. It needed to be polished and improved in certain areas but why speed it up like that and make it look almost like an animated cartoon action hack'n slash game?
BTW: Have you seen the way Varrick with his crossbow moves (hops) around the battlefield in one of those combat videos? Comments please...

[EDIT : Inappropriate image removed. Please don't circumvent the curse filter]

Modifié par JohnEpler, 10 février 2011 - 03:52 .

[Dr. wonderful]

Solid N7 wrote...

Martanek wrote...

Does anybody else think that DA2's combat speed is a little exaggerated? To me, it looks too cartoonish, almost ridiculous, particularly when compared to the first DA game. I mean, is it realistic to have a Rogue Hawke flying like a ninja all over the battlefield, a Warrior Hawke swinging his sword extremely fast like it is a kitchen knife and so on. Unlike Bioware, I do not believe that the combat needed to be sped up. It needed to be polished and improved in certain areas but why speed it up like that and make it look almost like an animated cartoon action hack'n slash game?
BTW: Have you seen the way Varrick with his crossbow moves (hops) around the battlefield in one of those combat videos? Comments please...

[Edit: Inappropriate image removed]

LMAO.

Sorry, I needed that.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 10 février 2011 - 03:53 .

[slimgrin]

I'll bet my left nut that the critics pick at the animations just as the forum has.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Morroian wrote...

DAO was too slow though, unrealistically so, there's been feedback from people who have actually used those weapons that they aren't actually as heavy as DAO made them look.

But real two-handed weapons also aren't that big.  Weapons of the size we see in DAO would actually be that slow.

[j_j_m]

Definitely. I had to "facepalm" quite a bit while watching the latest gameplay video of DA2. Swinging a massive warhammer at the speed of light is something I don't think I'll get used to seeing.

I guess this is all part of what makes it appealing to the "Call of Duty" players.

Modifié par j_j_m, 10 février 2011 - 06:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

j_j_m wrote...

Definitely. I had to "facepalm" quite a bit while watching the latest gameplay video of DA2. Swinging a massive warhammer at the speed of light is something I don't think I'll get used to seeing.

The head on that warhammer has to weigh about 40 kg (I'm assuming it's steel - 7.9g/cc - and the head measures 30 cm long and 20 cm across).  How much force would be required to accelerate it at the end of a long lever like that?

We could do the math to show how silly it is.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 10 février 2011 - 06:33 .

[Vena_86]

The speed has gone overboard. This is a personal thing, but I just don't care as much about the game world and characters anymore when things become utterly cartoony and unrealistic. It is just too in-your-face that it is just a game and nothing matters.

Forcing more truckloads of blood into everything, does not make it mature again, rather the opposite.

[Revan312]

Inarborat wrote...

They won't.  Bioware is one of those developers that's above criticisms like that.  Reviews will be full of "raises the bar for rpgs" and "loads of visceral action."  Which may very well might be true but they're one of the star studios a lot reviewers tend to be very forgiving.

^ This, ME2 proved it yet again..

[Sylvius the Mad]

Revan312 wrote...

Inarborat wrote...

They won't.  Bioware is one of those developers that's above criticisms like that.  Reviews will be full of "raises the bar for rpgs" and "loads of visceral action."  Which may very well might be true but they're one of the star studios a lot reviewers tend to be very forgiving.

^ This, ME2 proved it yet again..

The mass market reviewers, sure, but they stopped being credible years ago.  I haven't read a major game reviwe site looking for actual insight in probably 7 years.

Frankly, you get more useful reviews from Yahtzee, and he's not even trying to offer a balanced view of anything.

[Vicious]

I liked how slow it was in DA:O and hwo the animation made it feel like it was a real effort to swing a two handes sword. Not many RPG's treat heavy weapons as if they were actually heavy.

It made absolutely zero sense. 2 handed swords are not that slow to swing. And they don't need the idiotically exxagerated windup either.



I'd say the DUMBEST part of 2 handers from DAO was they were SLOW except when



A) You used an ability, then they were fast as hell



You got a 'fancy kill' animation. The swings the SLOWW 2hander, again, like it's nothing, sometimes giving 2 whacks and sending the enemy flying where he would otherwise still be winding up.



In other words, zero consistency.



Good riddance.

[Revan312]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
The mass market reviewers, sure, but they stopped being credible years ago.  I haven't read a major game reviwe site looking for actual insight in probably 7 years.

Frankly, you get more useful reviews from Yahtzee, and he's not even trying to offer a balanced view of anything.

True, I haven't read a credible review from a mainstream website in ages.. If it's AAA, 98% chance it will be a positive review, if it's Indie, it will most likely get picked apart.. Advertising has done nothing but screw over objective analysis..

[Lotion Soronarr]

It does looks a bit ...cartoony. Speeds seems ok in some instance, not OK in toehrs. But it's more what Hawke does then the speed at whihc it does it.

It's the same story everywhere. Movies and games. Some creators seem to think that "normal" isn't cool enough and everything needs to be "spiced up". Everything has to be more "awesome"..more "extreeme"... more "visually compeling"..."gritty".. "sexy". Words thrown around that long lost any true worth.

You can see it everywhere.
For example CSI and similar shows - a mockery of science and police procedures. Even some simple stuff is "souped up" to look more "awesome". Like searching things on computers. Instead of a normal "Searching, please wait" screen, we have some convulted UI with images flashing for no other reason than to flash. Because the audience is too stupid to realise what's going on? Because a normal searhc screen doesn't look awesome enough?
That's just one simple example.

And many new gaems (DA2 included) seem to go the same route.

And that bugs me. The idea that everything has to be hot-rodded. That's not awesome - it's just a whole new level of stupid.

[Martanek]

boohead wrote...

The combat in DAO1 was so slow and clunky that I honestly do not mind this speed one bit.

Srsly, the worst part about DAO was easily the combat. Anyone who says this is not an improvement is just being silly and biased.

No good sir, you are completely wrong. The biggest weak spots in DA:O lay elsewhere and it was definitely not its combat part. How was it so slow? Should a human be able to jump five meters high and ten meters long to kill an enemy within an eye's blink?  Is a heavy two-handed sword supposed to be wielded as a pocket knife? Man, things and weapons have some weight! Sure, I know, DA2 is a fantasy game but it should still operate within basic rules of physics and a sense of reality.

[HTTP 404]

Martanek wrote...

Does anybody else think that DA2's combat speed is a little exaggerated? To me, it looks too cartoonish, almost ridiculous, particularly when compared to the first DA game. I mean, is it realistic to have a Rogue Hawke flying like a ninja all over the battlefield, a Warrior Hawke swinging his sword extremely fast like it is a kitchen knife and so on. Unlike Bioware, I do not believe that the combat needed to be sped up. It needed to be polished and improved in certain areas but why speed it up like that and make it look almost like an animated cartoon action hack'n slash game?
BTW: Have you seen the way Varrick with his crossbow moves (hops) around the battlefield in one of those combat videos? Comments please...

hmmm. DA:O was sluggish and slow but I kind of agree with you on this.  Its like they went from 1 to 10 when a 5 would have sufficed.

[Burdokva]

Animations are choppy and simply bad. Not just way too fast, it seems there's no natural fluidity to the way people move, rather like "action features" on action figures. They just snap and stuff happens...



Origins could have used a 10-15% increase of some animations, but purely as visuals, they were better. They felt real.



And sorry, but everyone who whined that it took them "too much time" to position their rogues for a back-stab should have just shut up and learned how to play. It's supposed to be hard, experienced soldiers or even common men fighting for their lives just don't stand like blocks of rock.



The whole mentality of instant gratification for an easy kill has really messed up the dynamic of the combat, IMHO. I'm interested in the story, but having to play through tens of hours of that combat would be a pain.

[Dubya75]

Burdokva wrote...

Animations are choppy and simply bad. Not just way too fast, it seems there's no natural fluidity to the way people move, rather like "action features" on action figures. They just snap and stuff happens...

Origins could have used a 10-15% increase of some animations, but purely as visuals, they were better. They felt real.

And sorry, but everyone who whined that it took them "too much time" to position their rogues for a back-stab should have just shut up and learned how to play. It's supposed to be hard, experienced soldiers or even common men fighting for their lives just don't stand like blocks of rock.

The whole mentality of instant gratification for an easy kill has really messed up the dynamic of the combat, IMHO. I'm interested in the story, but having to play through tens of hours of that combat would be a pain.

I tend to agree, it's sometimes hard to see combat movements from the clips we've seen. I'm hoping those clips had a reduced frame rate or something...
It seems now like if you blink you'll miss stuff. 

[kane442]

naaa forums as a vocal minority on just about anything and some of us like the new animations....to each there own i guess

[Martanek]

Dayshadow wrote...

Martanek wrote...

Does anybody else think that DA2's combat speed is a little exaggerated? To me, it looks too cartoonish, almost ridiculous, particularly when compared to the first DA game. I mean, is it realistic to have a Rogue Hawke flying like a ninja all over the battlefield, a Warrior Hawke swinging his sword extremely fast like it is a kitchen knife and so on. Unlike Bioware, I do not believe that the combat needed to be sped up. It needed to be polished and improved in certain areas but why speed it up like that and make it look almost like an animated cartoon action hack'n slash game?
BTW: Have you seen the way Varrick with his crossbow moves (hops) around the battlefield in one of those combat videos? Comments please...

Yes! More QQ. I was starting to starve without some kind of whinning to sait my trollish hunger.

And aren't Hawke's teeth TOO white and perfect? I mean, come on!!! This game is gonna suck!!!

You seem to need a professional care friend. Now go play your favourite shoot-and-run videogames and do not concern yourself with adult matters.

[Burdokva]

kane442 wrote...

naaa forums as a vocal minority on just about anything and some of us like the new animations....to each there own i guess

You understand, by your own argument, that you're a vocal minority too, don't you?

[Vhaius]

The combat (specifically rogue) looks like someone is pressing the fast forward button on the animations, doesn't bother me that much, but I see how it could bother others. I do like how the mage fires off its standard auto attack though, alternating between different stances instead of just standing there.