78 réponses à ce sujet

[kingjezza]

I get the feeling I'll always want Bethany in my group which means I'll never be able to play as a mage, that's stupid of me

Modifié par kingjezza, 09 février 2011 - 11:23 .

[Harid]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

My dreams of a full party of mages! Dashed upon the rocks of reality!

Wait, I'm getting it for the PC. Yay, mods.

My previous post on this, and the followup. In short, Raygereio's example is the absolute least that would happen. More likely an outright and repeated kaboom at any number of places. So have fun, but ya takes your chances. 

Give mobs Mana Clash.  Problem solved.

[Lukas Kristjanson]

XX55XX wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

My dreams of a full party of mages! Dashed upon the rocks of reality!

Wait, I'm getting it for the PC. Yay, mods.

My previous post on this, and the followup. In short, Raygereio's example is the absolute least that would happen. More likely an outright and repeated kaboom at any number of places. So have fun, but ya takes your chances. 

Yeah, and that is a problem. Bethany and Carver won't interact with one another, and if Bethany is supposed to be the one that "lives", she'll be crying about Carver even though he survived and is standing right next to her!

A mod may fix some gameplay problems, but the story also won't flow as well.

Funny story, if anything other than a default scene/stage can (rightfully) assume any given characters are mutually exclusive, the guys in cine will economically map them to the same spot. So if Carver shouldn't be somewhere and he suddenly is (say, if we're jumping around to test something), he won't be standing next to Bethany, he'll be standing in her. At the very least this overlay results in some particularly voluptuous muttonchops I've been calling "Fathers-of-Confederation-Hair Carver." Then I'm treated to a sudden return to my desktop. Mods are great, I'm not saying they have no place. But when this breaks, it better not end up on youtube with a "har har, look at this" like it's our fault, or I will hunt people down and give them such a Canadian stink eye they'll have a mild sense of guilt for weeks. That's our power.


And Harid? Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Johnny Shepard]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

My dreams of a full party of mages! Dashed upon the rocks of reality!

Wait, I'm getting it for the PC. Yay, mods.

My previous post on this, and the followup. In short, Raygereio's example is the absolute least that would happen. More likely an outright and repeated kaboom at any number of places. So have fun, but ya takes your chances. 

Yeah, and that is a problem. Bethany and Carver won't interact with one another, and if Bethany is supposed to be the one that "lives", she'll be crying about Carver even though he survived and is standing right next to her!

A mod may fix some gameplay problems, but the story also won't flow as well.

Funny story, if anything other than a default scene/stage can (rightfully) assume any given characters are mutually exclusive, the guys in cine will economically map them to the same spot. So if Carver shouldn't be somewhere and he suddenly is (say, if we're jumping around to test something), he won't be standing next to Bethany, he'll be standing in her. At the very least this overlay results in some particularly voluptuous muttonchops I've been calling "Fathers-of-Confederation-Hair Carver." Then I'm treated to a sudden return to my desktop. Mods are great, I'm not saying they have no place. But when this breaks, it better not end up on youtube with a "har har, look at this" like it's our fault, or I will hunt people down and give them such a Canadian stink eye they'll have a mild sense of guilt for weeks. That's our power.


And Harid? Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

There is no way of saving them, are there. Not as a companion but to still be alive.

[kingjezza]

In an ideal World we would have been given the choice, not only would it have been far more involving for the player to be forced to choose between two siblings (as in say Sophie's Choice) but it would mean we could play with the character we wanted as well.



It would have just given more freedom to the player to play the game as he wanted and have the setup he wanted but I get that Bioware wanted the game to be more about telling the stories they wanted to, which is fair enough, they're making the game.

[Cuthlan]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

My dreams of a full party of mages! Dashed upon the rocks of reality!

Wait, I'm getting it for the PC. Yay, mods.

My previous post on this, and the followup. In short, Raygereio's example is the absolute least that would happen. More likely an outright and repeated kaboom at any number of places. So have fun, but ya takes your chances. 

Yeah, and that is a problem. Bethany and Carver won't interact with one another, and if Bethany is supposed to be the one that "lives", she'll be crying about Carver even though he survived and is standing right next to her!

A mod may fix some gameplay problems, but the story also won't flow as well.

Funny story, if anything other than a default scene/stage can (rightfully) assume any given characters are mutually exclusive, the guys in cine will economically map them to the same spot. So if Carver shouldn't be somewhere and he suddenly is (say, if we're jumping around to test something), he won't be standing next to Bethany, he'll be standing in her. At the very least this overlay results in some particularly voluptuous muttonchops I've been calling "Fathers-of-Confederation-Hair Carver." Then I'm treated to a sudden return to my desktop. Mods are great, I'm not saying they have no place. But when this breaks, it better not end up on youtube with a "har har, look at this" like it's our fault, or I will hunt people down and give them such a Canadian stink eye they'll have a mild sense of guilt for weeks. That's our power.


And Harid? Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Canadian Stinkeye?

Is that like a Cleveland Stea... no, No. Nevermind.

[Johnny Shepard]

kingjezza wrote...

In an ideal World we would have been given the choice, not only would it have been far more involving for the player to be forced to choose between two siblings (as in say Sophie's Choice) but it would mean we could play with the character we wanted as well.

It would have just given more freedom to the player to play the game as he wanted and have the setup he wanted but I get that Bioware wanted the game to be more about telling the stories they wanted to, which is fair enough, they're making the game.

But there is one big problem with that. The story calls for an Apostate. If Hawke is a mage then that role is taken by him but if he is a warrior/rogue then that role needs to be filled and that is Bethany.
Playing as a Warrior and save Carver but lose Bethany meens that you have no Apostate in you'r family to protect from the Templars. It's like when people complained abut you having to join the Grey Wardens in origins. If you hadn't, then the story would not work.

[Harid]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

My dreams of a full party of mages! Dashed upon the rocks of reality!

Wait, I'm getting it for the PC. Yay, mods.

My previous post on this, and the followup. In short, Raygereio's example is the absolute least that would happen. More likely an outright and repeated kaboom at any number of places. So have fun, but ya takes your chances. 

Yeah, and that is a problem. Bethany and Carver won't interact with one another, and if Bethany is supposed to be the one that "lives", she'll be crying about Carver even though he survived and is standing right next to her!

A mod may fix some gameplay problems, but the story also won't flow as well.

And Harid? Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Hey, sarcasm is unneccessary.  However mobs that actually target and eliminate mages (and rogues and warriors) would encourage people to take a more balanced party, or encourage them to step their tactics up to deal with it, rather than steamrolling through the game with it's arguably strongest class.

As for now, there are ways to take rogues out the game (immunity to backstabs makes your rogue a crappy warrior), but nothing in terms of controlling Warrior or Mage spam.

Of course, if you actually gave mobs Mana Clash, and your cryptic hinting was towards that end, then, yay.  I would find it hilarious to have to try and work around mobs with Mana Clash.  Though I expect Mana Clash is hugely nerfed in the first place.

Modifié par Harid, 10 février 2011 - 12:40 .

[kingjezza]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

In an ideal World we would have been given the choice, not only would it have been far more involving for the player to be forced to choose between two siblings (as in say Sophie's Choice) but it would mean we could play with the character we wanted as well.

It would have just given more freedom to the player to play the game as he wanted and have the setup he wanted but I get that Bioware wanted the game to be more about telling the stories they wanted to, which is fair enough, they're making the game.

But there is one big problem with that. The story calls for an Apostate. If Hawke is a mage then that role is taken by him but if he is a warrior/rogue then that role needs to be filled and that is Bethany.
Playing as a Warrior and save Carver but lose Bethany meens that you have no Apostate in you'r family to protect from the Templars. It's like when people complained abut you having to join the Grey Wardens in origins. If you hadn't, then the story would not work.

Yeah I see your point and like I say I understand why they did it. I guess I'm just one of those people who likes playing with his own team.

I absolutely hated the fact Oghren was forced on me in Origins for a part of the game, it really grated on my nerves that I had to have him at the expense of the person I wanted.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Since DAO mods demonstrated that we can add new companions, I wonder if we could just recreate Bethany and Carver and have them added to the game as new characters. Their dialogue all exists, and their models exist.

[JrayM16]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Since DAO mods demonstrated that we can add new companions, I wonder if we could just recreate Bethany and Carver and have them added to the game as new characters. Their dialogue all exists, and their models exist.

Probably.  But the dialogue with both siblings will probably have a lot to do with the death of the other.  Perhaps only for the first few acts of the game, but I imagine it'll be important to the character plots that one sibling is dead so I feel like the act of adding the other sibling defeats itself.

[Sylvius the Mad]

JrayM16 wrote...

Probably.  But the dialogue with both siblings will probably have a lot to do with the death of the other.  Perhaps only for the first few acts of the game, but I imagine it'll be important to the character plots that one sibling is dead so I feel like the act of adding the other sibling defeats itself.

I don't care about the dialogue.  I want more party options.

And I want more mages.  Even if I can only have one of them at a time (to avoid the cproblems Lukas mentions), I'd rather have Bethany with MageHawke.

[JrayM16]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Probably.  But the dialogue with both siblings will probably have a lot to do with the death of the other.  Perhaps only for the first few acts of the game, but I imagine it'll be important to the character plots that one sibling is dead so I feel like the act of adding the other sibling defeats itself.

I don't care about the dialogue.  I want more party options.

And I want more mages.  Even if I can only have one of them at a time (to avoid the cproblems Lukas mentions), I'd rather have Bethany with MageHawke.

More mages are always good, I'll give you that.

[KingDan97]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

In an ideal World we would have been given the choice, not only would it have been far more involving for the player to be forced to choose between two siblings (as in say Sophie's Choice) but it would mean we could play with the character we wanted as well.

It would have just given more freedom to the player to play the game as he wanted and have the setup he wanted but I get that Bioware wanted the game to be more about telling the stories they wanted to, which is fair enough, they're making the game.

But there is one big problem with that. The story calls for an Apostate. If Hawke is a mage then that role is taken by him but if he is a warrior/rogue then that role needs to be filled and that is Bethany.
Playing as a Warrior and save Carver but lose Bethany meens that you have no Apostate in you'r family to protect from the Templars. It's like when people complained abut you having to join the Grey Wardens in origins. If you hadn't, then the story would not work.

How do you figure? All we know so far is that Cassandra is interested in Hawke because she believes he can stop the oncoming war. Nothing about Bethany, or a mage or anything of the sort.

[SirGladiator]

If having an Apostate mage at all times is indeed central to the plot, that doesn't make it necessary for Bethany to die simply because your character is a mage, if anything it just makes Carver that much more expendable, and Bethany more important. Still, I don't think either sibling should 'have' to die, it should be up to the player based on their choices in the game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

But there is one big problem with that. The story calls for an Apostate. If Hawke is a mage then that role is taken by him but if he is a warrior/rogue then that role needs to be filled and that is Bethany.

Playing as a Warrior and save Carver but lose Bethany meens that you have no Apostate in you'r family to protect from the Templars.

That's only relevant if the Templars know that your family contains no Apostate.  And that they're not horribly corrupt.

If the Templars are coming after your family even when you don't have a Apostate, that would cast the Templars in a whole new light.  I think that would make for an interesting narrative, not a broken one.

[Taleroth]

Wait, if we have to have an apostate in the family, then how is the mage/templar conflict I've been hearing about supposed to work? Why would anyone side with the people who are trying to murder you or your sister?

[Bryy_Miller]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...
 So if Carver shouldn't be somewhere and he suddenly is (say, if we're jumping around to test something), he won't be standing next to Bethany, he'll be standing in her. 

You most likely just started a whole new slew of threads with this. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Taleroth wrote...

Wait, if we have to have an apostate in the family, then how is the mage/templar conflict I've been hearing about supposed to work? Why would anyone side with the people who are trying to murder you or your sister?

There's no guarantee that Hawke cares about his family.  The writers have been very clear about that.

"You're not required to love your family" they said.

[shumworld]

Filament wrote...

Don't believe the trailer's lies. You can't.

Yeah Casandra had white hair at one time and now she's a brunette.

Back on topic, I've some to accept that Hawke's story is design to flow best with only ONE of the siblings to be a mage. I'm also led to believe that Carver and Bethany roles will be quite different being that only one of them is the mage which in part encourage us to play the game with all the classes.

Modifié par shumworld, 10 février 2011 - 06:34 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

shumworld wrote...

Yeah Casandra had white hair at one time and now she's a brunette.

I'm sure someone will mod that back fairly shortly.

[Thalorin1919]

I don't understand why you guys can't just play it the way it was meant to be played, rather then just not liking something and going through all that trouble to just mod something in, and overall, it will just decrease the quality of the story.



But hey, whatever.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I don't understand why you guys can't just play it the way it was meant to be played, rather then just not liking something and going through all that trouble to just mod something in, and overall, it will just decrease the quality of the story.

Because I don't think it will decrease the quality of the story.  It will simply change the story, and make me more of an active participant in its construction.

If all a game ever does is tel me a story, then I don't want to play it.

[otherarrow]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I don't understand why you guys can't just play it the way it was meant to be played, rather then just not liking something and going through all that trouble to just mod something in, and overall, it will just decrease the quality of the story.

Because I don't think it will decrease the quality of the story.  It will simply change the story, and make me more of an active participant in its construction.

If all a game ever does is tel me a story, then I don't want to play it.

It kind of does just tell you a story.

Take DAO for example: It's the story about the person who kills the archdemon. Sure, you get to choose which kind of person does it, but Bioware is still telling you a story.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

You can keep Bethany and Carver alive, Hawke just has to die then you watch the rest of the game play out as a series of cutscenes...just like Final Fantasy!

I second that.