78 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

otherarrow wrote...

It kind of does just tell you a story.

Take DAO for example: It's the story about the person who kills the archdemon. Sure, you get to choose which kind of person does it, but Bioware is still telling you a story.

Not at all.  BioWare is providing me with a detailed environment in which I can construct my own story.  All of the steps in between are mine.  What the Warden does and why are my creation.  Frankly, even killing the Archdemon, as that's not a guaranteed outcome.  The Warden might die before that happens, or simply abandon the quest partway through.

[RosaAquafire]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Not at all.  BioWare is providing me with a detailed environment in which I can construct my own story.  All of the steps in between are mine.  What the Warden does and why are my creation.  Frankly, even killing the Archdemon, as that's not a guaranteed outcome.  The Warden might die before that happens, or simply abandon the quest partway through.

You're so weird, Sylvius.

Why don't you just play tabletop ?

[Sylvius the Mad]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Not at all.  BioWare is providing me with a detailed environment in which I can construct my own story.  All of the steps in between are mine.  What the Warden does and why are my creation.  Frankly, even killing the Archdemon, as that's not a guaranteed outcome.  The Warden might die before that happens, or simply abandon the quest partway through.

You're so weird, Sylvius.

Why don't you just play tabletop ?

I don't like multiplayer games.

[Taleroth]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Wait, if we have to have an apostate in the family, then how is the mage/templar conflict I've been hearing about supposed to work? Why would anyone side with the people who are trying to murder you or your sister?

There's no guarantee that Hawke cares about his family.  The writers have been very clear about that.

"You're not required to love your family" they said.

No, you're not required.  But most would be inclined to protect friends and family on "good" runs.

[mesmerizedish]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Not at all.  BioWare is providing me with a detailed environment in which I can construct my own story.  All of the steps in between are mine.  What the Warden does and why are my creation.  Frankly, even killing the Archdemon, as that's not a guaranteed outcome.  The Warden might die before that happens, or simply abandon the quest partway through.

You're so weird, Sylvius.

Why don't you just play tabletop ?

I don't like multiplayer games.

I once ran a Star Wars game for myself... it was fun for a few nights, and then I got bored. But it worked, sort of

[Johnny Shepard]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I don't understand why you guys can't just play it the way it was meant to be played, rather then just not liking something and going through all that trouble to just mod something in, and overall, it will just decrease the quality of the story.

But hey, whatever.

I agree. It would be like rewriting parts of a book because you don't like who dies. It can't be helthy. Just look at "Misery".

[Sylvius the Mad]

Taleroth wrote...

No, you're not required.  But most would be inclined to protect friends and family on "good" runs.

The concept of "good" or "evil" runs eludes me.  If that's all there is to define the character, how is that fun or interesting?

Each character I play is designed from a set of underlying principles, and whether he is "good" or "evil" is immaterial.  He's coherent, and that's all that matters.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I once ran a Star Wars game for myself... it was fun for a few nights, and then I got bored. But it worked, sort of

I've done that, but combat is really dull when you're controlling the enemies.

[Taleroth]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

No, you're not required.  But most would be inclined to protect friends and family on "good" runs.

The concept of "good" or "evil" runs eludes me.  If that's all there is to define the character, how is that fun or interesting?

Each character I play is designed from a set of underlying principles, and whether he is "good" or "evil" is immaterial.  He's coherent, and that's all that matters.

Kind of irrelevant, n'es?  How many of your characters have "I'm okay with people murdering my family or myself" as an underlying principle?

Modifié par Taleroth, 10 février 2011 - 05:57 .

[HTTP 404]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I once ran a Star Wars game for myself... it was fun for a few nights, and then I got bored. But it worked, sort of

I've done that, but combat is really dull when you're controlling the enemies.

what if there was a DM and then there was you Sylvius? would that be ideal?  I used to DM for a friend of mine when I was a kid and worked the entire world around his choices.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Taleroth wrote...

Kind of irrelevant, n'es?  How many of your characters have "I'm okay with people murdering my family or myself" as an underlying principle?

Depending on the circumstances, there are any number of reasons why a character might choose not to defend his family from attack.

[Sylvius the Mad]

HTTP 404 wrote...

what if there was a DM and then there was you Sylvius? would that be ideal?

No.  The DM is another person participating in the game.

I don't like multiplayer games. 

[HTTP 404]

The RustMonster wrote...

Granted, I haven't watched this video before, but it's highly probable that the footage is from before Carver goes squish because of the Ogre.

this for OP

[Sylvius the Mad]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

I don't understand why you guys can't just play it the way it was meant to be played,

I don't understand why any player would care how a game was "meant to be played".

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 10 février 2011 - 06:02 .

[Taleroth]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Kind of irrelevant, n'es?  How many of your characters have "I'm okay with people murdering my family or myself" as an underlying principle?

Depending on the circumstances, there are any number of reasons why a character might choose not to defend his family from attack.

What reasons would there be to not only not defend your family (or yourself, do not forget yourself) from what amounts to little more than genetic cleansing, but also go on and aid those who did the murder (or are trying to kill you) that does not hint at sociopathy?

[HTTP 404]

Taleroth wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Kind of irrelevant, n'es?  How many of your characters have "I'm okay with people murdering my family or myself" as an underlying principle?

Depending on the circumstances, there are any number of reasons why a character might choose not to defend his family from attack.

What reasons would there be to not only not defend your family (or yourself, do not forget yourself) from what amounts to little more than genetic cleansing, but also go on and aid those who did the murder (or are trying to kill you) that does not hint at sociopathy?

you could choose to be a sociopathy (lack of sympathy) or a coward (saving your own skin)

[Taleroth]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Kind of irrelevant, n'es?  How many of your characters have "I'm okay with people murdering my family or myself" as an underlying principle?

Depending on the circumstances, there are any number of reasons why a character might choose not to defend his family from attack.

What reasons would there be to not only not defend your family (or yourself, do not forget yourself) from what amounts to little more than genetic cleansing, but also go on and aid those who did the murder (or are trying to kill you) that does not hint at sociopathy?

you could choose to be a sociopathy (lack of sympathy) or a coward (saving your own skin)

Exactly my point.  It weights the templar/mage conflict unevenly.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Taleroth wrote...

 What reasons would there be to not only not defend your family (or yourself, do not forget yourself) from what amounts to little more than genetic cleansing, but also go on and aid those who did the murder (or are trying to kill you) that does not hint at sociopathy?

Sociopathy is an obvious example, yes.  But a coherent character may well be a sociopath.

And as HTTP 404 points out, there are other reasons.  I played a cowardly elf in DAO who took Vaughn's bribe and generally ran away from things, and he felt terribly guilty about it.

Just because your character made a specific choice in the heat of the moment doesn't mean it's a choice he won't regret.

[harktag]

I suppose I'm in the minority in that I play games predominantly for the story. At least for me, an engaging story trumps gameplay any day (of course the best games are able to do both well). There's no doubt in my mind that the choices BioWare made were not meant to "frustrate" players and force them to have party members they don't want, but to enhance the story as best as possible.

I definitely would LOVE to keep my entire family alive. But I also think losing one of them - and dealing with that not only with myself but with my surviving sibling - creates a far richer story and experience. And it gives great replay value to the game too!

There were LOADS of people that died in the Harry Potter books that I wish didn't. But it didn't spoil my overall experience with the books, because the tragic losses made the story richer. (At least a couple of the deaths were really necessary as a driving force in the series.) Granted we're talking about a video game and not books, but BioWare is already giving us a lot of freedom to tell Hawke's story the way we want to as it is. Within the confines of a video game, they have to give us a certain level of restriction here and there, but we still will get to make a lot of our own decisions. And most of the "restrictions" I believe make the difference between an "awesome" plot vs. a "meh" plot.

Modifié par harktag, 10 février 2011 - 06:53 .

[Kronaras]

Even though i won't use a mod that allows you to do this, i would prefer it if bioware would let US decide about who we want to live, like Kaidan/Ashley in ME. But on the other hand, you can't decide who you want if you havent known their character yet, since this happens at the beginning.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

My dreams of a full party of mages! Dashed upon the rocks of reality!

Wait, I'm getting it for the PC. Yay, mods.

Don't hold your breath. No toolset has been announced as of yet.

[Michael Hamilton]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

My dreams of a full party of mages! Dashed upon the rocks of reality!

Wait, I'm getting it for the PC. Yay, mods.

My previous post on this, and the followup. In short, Raygereio's example is the absolute least that would happen. More likely an outright and repeated kaboom at any number of places. So have fun, but ya takes your chances. 

Yeah, and that is a problem. Bethany and Carver won't interact with one another, and if Bethany is supposed to be the one that "lives", she'll be crying about Carver even though he survived and is standing right next to her!

A mod may fix some gameplay problems, but the story also won't flow as well.

Funny story, if anything other than a default scene/stage can (rightfully) assume any given characters are mutually exclusive, the guys in cine will economically map them to the same spot. So if Carver shouldn't be somewhere and he suddenly is (say, if we're jumping around to test something), he won't be standing next to Bethany, he'll be standing in her. At the very least this overlay results in some particularly voluptuous muttonchops I've been calling "Fathers-of-Confederation-Hair Carver." Then I'm treated to a sudden return to my desktop. Mods are great, I'm not saying they have no place. But when this breaks, it better not end up on youtube with a "har har, look at this" like it's our fault, or I will hunt people down and give them such a Canadian stink eye they'll have a mild sense of guilt for weeks. That's our power.


And Harid? Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Fun stuff, I believe the term I've heard most often used to describe this (Bethany and Carver in the same location during cinematics) was "Bethcarver".

IE: "I see you have Bethcarver in your group."

[FellowerOfOdin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I once ran a Star Wars game for myself... it was fun for a few nights, and then I got bored. But it worked, sort of

I've done that, but combat is really dull when you're controlling the enemies.

Why exactly? As a  GM, you have both the well thought out characters and combat enemies. Being a GM can be incredible fun if you want to be good as you have to make any encounter as difficult as possible without frustrating people...imo, RPGs should have people with such experience in the balance team. DA:O failed incredibly hard at difficulty settings and I predict DA II to encounter the same fate. Get one strategy, faceroll everyone.

[hawat333]

Michael Hamilton wrote...

Fun stuff, I believe the term I've heard most often used to describe this (Bethany and Carver in the same location during cinematics) was "Bethcarver".

IE: "I see you have Bethcarver in your group."

I can't help but think of Fight Club.

[Saibh]

If I may ask, was this scene made by shoehorning Bethany and Carver's models in? In, say, the place of another person?

Modifié par Saibh, 10 février 2011 - 10:41 .