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Mass Effect 2 - apparently the best RPG of the past 10 years


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#276
CroGamer002

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HrznKn wrote...

Mechanics aside, the main plot (collector-reaper story) was too laughable to be anywhere near the top 5 imo.


I didn't laugh.

It started out well enough, but every main storyline mission made it worse, and then ending ... lawl.


No it wasn't.

Suspension of disbelief came crashing down pretty hard.


There was build up?

Maybe i was naïve expecting something more than a 3rd rate comic book plotline that makes 2000 year old fantasy literature look totally believable in comparison.


???

Forgive me sounding so harsh, but i'm still pretty butthurt over it, especially since every other aspect of the game, minus some small details, was fantastic and the ME1 ending set the stage for a great sequel.



Riiiight...
Just don't point out why you didn't like Mass Effect 2, your shared opinion is very meaningful then.

#277
hosch

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Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Yep...right. *looks at the calender* hmm it's not even the first of April, I'm baffled.

Yes sports fans, according to The Bottom Line, ME2 is the BEST RPG of the past decade, beating out games like KotOR, Oblivion, and Fallout 3. Don't get me wrong, I love ME2, but best RPG of the decade? You're joking, right?

EDIT: fixed title spelling

Ehm... I think the author didn't play the games at all or he was paid by bioware and blizzard ;)

Don't get me wrong: ME2 is a very good game and i love ME1 and ME2, but it doesn't deserve a #1 as a RPG.
As a Shooter with RPG elements, yeah maybe... still, it would be in competition with Dead Space.
Diablo 2 is #2 but Gothic is #9? Although Gothic was not popular in the USA doesn't make it a worse RPG than Diablo 2.
Where the hell was the RPG part in Diablo2? Even Syndicate Wars from Bullfrog was a better RPG than Diablo 2. It got multiplayer too!

#278
Schneidend

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Ah, right. So, because the author of that article's opinion differs from what you would have wrote, he or she must have been bribed.



Good to know.

#279
hosch

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Schneidend wrote...

Ah, right. So, because the author of that article's opinion differs from what you would have wrote, he or she must have been bribed.

Good to know.

Please note the smiley at the end of that phrase and look up at wikipedia what "irony" is.
Just wanted to disagree with the author, nothing more.

#280
JediNg

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Shotokanguy wrote...

Who cares what that one site says?

This topic is just an excuse to start the "ME2 isn't an RPG why do people like it WAAAHHHH" crap again.


Sigh.  This.

#281
flem1

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Successful troll is successful.

#282
Gleym

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Schneidend wrote...

Ah, right. So, because the author of that article's opinion differs from what you would have wrote, he or she must have been bribed.

Good to know.


Bethesda bribed the sh*t out of reviewers to give Fallout 3 a good review, just wanted to let you know. Actually, it's becoming a very prevailent occurance in the gaming industry overall. A company has money? Okay, they can afford to extend an invite to gaming events like E3 and pay for big-name reviewers to stay in four-to-five star hotels, and the company reps will even take the reviewers out to dinner at a restaurant. After buttering them up like that, they then hand them a pre-release of the game with a smile and effectively say, "You'll be 'fair' with us, won't you?"

By then the reviewers are so accustomed to being pampered like this that they go along with it and give a game that might have a ton of flaws that would normally detract from its scores a highly praising review, and an 8/10.

#283
AlanC9

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Gleym wrote...
Bethesda bribed the sh*t out of reviewers to give Fallout 3 a good review, just wanted to let you know.


You got a source for that? Or am I supposed to just take your word for it?

Not that I give a damn what they did-- I don't like Bethesda's games in the first place.

#284
Tasker

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There's no way in hell a reviewer is going to bad mouth a game that a publisher like EA is hyping up to be the second coming. Not when that same publisher is responsible for a large chunk of the advertising revinue.


Mass Effect 2 was in no way shape or form, the best RPG of the last 10.

There were a hell of a lot of RPGs released in that time period, ( many of them released by Bioware ), and most of them were better than ME2.

ME2 wasn't a terrible game by any means, but it sure as hell wasn't the best.

Modifié par Orkboy, 13 février 2011 - 12:45 .


#285
Epic777

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Hold up, why do we care about some random website says?

#286
Schneidend

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Gleym wrote...
*long conspiratory rant snipped*


Personally, I'd give ME2 a 9/10 and Fallout 3 an 8/10. Care to guess how much EA and Bethesda bribed me for that?

#287
JediNg

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Orkboy wrote...

There's no way in hell a reviewer is going to bad mouth a game that a publisher like EA is hyping up to be the second coming. Not when that same publisher is responsible for a large chunk of the advertising revinue.


Mass Effect 2 was in no way shape or form, the best RPG of the last 10.

There were a hell of a lot of RPGs released in that time period, ( many of them released by Bioware ), and most of them were better than ME2.

ME2 wasn't a terrible game by any means, but it sure as hell wasn't the best.


Jury's still out.

#288
flem1

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Orkboy wrote...

There's no way in hell a reviewer is going to bad mouth a game that a publisher like EA is hyping up to be the second coming.

And that's why it won every players' poll GOTY under the sun!

The "it's bribes!" theorists are hilarious.  Every big release gets pushed.  Not every big release gets a 94 Metacritic -- making it, in fact, the #2 RPG of all time and the top in the 11 years since BG2 was released.

#289
spernus

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Orkboy wrote...

There's no way in hell a reviewer is going to bad mouth a game that a publisher like EA is hyping up to be the second coming. Not when that same publisher is responsible for a large chunk of the advertising revinue.


Mass Effect 2 was in no way shape or form, the best RPG of the last 10.

There were a hell of a lot of RPGs released in that time period, ( many of them released by Bioware ), and most of them were better than ME2.

ME2 wasn't a terrible game by any means, but it sure as hell wasn't the best.


Hmmm,I think Mass effect 2 is the best reviewed game under EA.This is a publisher which was known for a complete lack of creativity or quality up until 2-3 years ago.EA doesn't have an history of having most of it's game being reviewed all that well so critics have never been afraid to give mediocre scores to any game published under the EA brand.

Here's a quote from wiki: Since 2005 EA has published five games, Battlefield 2, Crysis, Rock Band, Mass Effect 2, and Dragon age:Origins that received Universal Acclaim (Metacritic score 90 or greater).I think Dead space 2 is real close,but it's small picking.

2 of those 5 are from Bioware,so it's much more a case of the talent behind the game than anything else. 

Modifié par spernus, 13 février 2011 - 02:55 .


#290
Gleym

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Schneidend wrote...

Gleym wrote...
*long conspiratory rant snipped*


Personally, I'd give ME2 a 9/10 and Fallout 3 an 8/10. Care to guess how much EA and Bethesda bribed me for that?


Hey, not everyone's on the take. Some people just have poor judgement.

#291
Gatt9

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flem1 wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

There's no way in hell a reviewer is going to bad mouth a game that a publisher like EA is hyping up to be the second coming.

And that's why it won every players' poll GOTY under the sun!

The "it's bribes!" theorists are hilarious.  Every big release gets pushed.  Not every big release gets a 94 Metacritic -- making it, in fact, the #2 RPG of all time and the top in the 11 years since BG2 was released.


It's not a theory,  it's actually very well established fact.

-There's numerous well documented reports out there about how Previews are dictated to sites via terms.

-Gamespot was nailed firing a reviewer for giving an advertiser a bad score.

-Independent parties (Such as Anandtech) have done pieces on how the press is willing to sell certain "Benefits" to even a no-name company,  which indicates what they'll do for a big name.

-The "Fuzzy math" they use to compute player scores is all too obvious.  A number of sites eliminate "Outlier" scores,  which once translated means low scores.  If you go through ratings on sites you'll find that the low scores somehow don't exist for big name products.  IIRC,  I think metacritic was caught using this algorithm.  Which is why player reviews are convienently so close to the reviewers.

In fact,  let me tell you a story about one of these fine upstanding companies (Not EA,  another big name)...

The company decided it was going to release a well known title,  in a new format.  The title had a well established fan base,  resistant to the changes they were making.  The company had no interest in the built-in fanbase,  or their opinions,  and as a matter of course eliminated the well known figureheads associated with the community.

Then came the company's "Big push" at E3.  During E3,  suddenly,  all of those debating against the direction of the project suddenly became banned for some of the most ridiculous of reasons.  I was banned for "Spam posting because my posts sounded too similiar".  Another member was banned for "Asking rhetorical questions".  Essentially,  if you weren't on the bandwagon,  the company banned you.  Just fine you think?  The company has a right to do that?

Think about that for a moment.  The company was intentionally manipulating the perception of it's product in order to boost sales through subversive means.  Rather than make any overture to the established fanbase,  the company excised them in order to make it's forums appear "More positive" through eliminating those who argued the projects direction wasn't inline with the product's history.

An astute observer would have noticed that suddenly during this timeframe an enourmous number of new positive posters appeared,  a truly astute observer would've noticed that sometimes these new posters forgot which screenname they'd posted under.  They would respond under a different screenname later in a thread taking credit for an earlier post.  Someone was running multiple accounts to increase the number of "OMG it's the greatest thing ever!!!!" posts.

So if company's are willing to manipulate their forums to that extent,  why would you not believe that they were willing to manipulate the reviews and the scores?

(Please don't bother PMing me on the subject,  this is as specific as I'm getting.  If I get any more specific,  I could become victim to lawsuit I'm sure).

As far as it being #2?  That's a shamefull embarassment.  Fallout,  Fallout 2,  Planescape: Torment,  Baldur's Gate 2,  Final Fantasy 2,  Final Fantasy 7,  Diablo,  Diablo 2,  and so many others.  Mass Effect 2 shouldn't even be on the list,  mainly because it's not an RPG.  Putting the letters on the box still doesn't make it an RPG.  Dialogue doesn't make it an RPG either,  Wing Commander 3 had dialogue with choices that affected the outcome,  and no one would dare suggest that's an RPG.

So why are we doing it here?

Hmmm,I think Mass effect 2 is the best reviewed game under EA.This is a publisher which was known for a complete lack of creativity or quality up until 2-3 years ago.EA doesn't have an history of having most of it's game being reviewed all that well so critics have never been afraid to give mediocre scores to any game published under the EA brand.


Actually,  technically speaking,  EA's history is not only of the most IPs,  but also of the industries best and widely regarded classics.

M.U.L.E.
Wastelands
Ultima 1-9
Wing Commander series
System Shock series
Alice
Crusader series
Need for Speed
Simcity
The Sims
Command and Conquer series
Starflight series
Archon
Bards Tale series

...And ones you won't know,  but during their time were regarded as AAA titles...
Alternate reality, Clive Barker's Undying,  Dungeon Keeper,  The Immortal,  Magic Carpet,  Populous, Racing Destruction Set, Seven Cities of Gold, Alpha Centari, Syndicate.

EA's history is rife with success,  on an order a great deal larger than anything ME2 mustered.  EA is one of the  founding fathers of modern gaming (Sierra,  Infocom, Interplay, Activision are the others). 

It's only recently that EA's aquired it's current reputation,  used to be a badge of quality.  EA made the error of trying to ride marketing fads and paying little attention to quality,  it stopped trying to aquire quality games in favor of riding rapidly developed sequels to currently "Hot" titles to rapid revenue streams.

Thing is though,  this is why EA's in danger of going under in the near-term.  The gaming market's is contracting,  as revenues have shown,  the public's getting sick of knockoff games and the barrage of "I'm a shooter too!".  It's only going to get worse in the next couple of years,  I'd venture that once you take out WoW, GT5, and Starcraft from the sales figures for last year the actual revenues are probably frightening.  EA's lack of variety and dependence on fast market fad sequels make it a prime canadate for a industry shaking fall.

#292
Schneidend

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Gleym wrote...

Hey, not everyone's on the take. Some people just have poor judgement.


Admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery, good ser. I approve.

#293
Bluko

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I read the list and honestly I think I have to agree. Although I'd be more tempted to put Shadows of Amn in the number one spot. As good as Mass Effect is, I'm not sure how well it will age. KOTOR for example looks pretty bleh these days, and I'm guessing Mass Effect will as well after so many years. Baldur's Gate is nice that way since it's a good looking game for what it is, and the environments still look good by most of today's games. Mass Effect has some glaring low-quality textures especially in certain clothes and armor. Although no game is perfect. Still the next generation of games is probably going to put a lot of games in their place. Though the graphic leaps are going to get smaller and smaller from now on.

I dunno how much of the appeal of Mass Effect lies in it's graphics/animation quality. Maybe it won't be a big deal as playing PS2 games I'm usually not apalled by their graphics.

#294
xXSnak3Eat3rXx

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Bluko wrote...
I dunno how much of the appeal of Mass Effect lies in it's graphics/animation quality.


You tell me.

Modifié par xXSnak3Eat3rXx, 13 février 2011 - 04:45 .


#295
AlanC9

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Gatt9 wrote...

(Please don't bother PMing me on the subject,  this is as specific as I'm getting.  If I get any more specific,  I could become victim to lawsuit I'm sure).


Don't be silly. Suing you would do PR damage to the company far worse than any harm you could do them by saying what comany and product you're talking about.

Wing Commander 3 had dialogue with choices that affected the outcome,  and no one would dare suggest that's an RPG.


It'd have to be an action-RPG, since the player's reflexes govern combat.

#296
matt-bassist

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theres no deus ex because it came out more than 10 years ago...

#297
Terror_K

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Walker White wrote...

One of the interesting things about the BioWare forums is that the older RPG players -- those from the 70s and the 80s -- are not as put off by the innovations that BioWare has been trying to inject in the genre. We have seen the notion of the RPG change so drastically over the decades, that we do not have as many sacred cows. In fact, if you remember the Golden Age of RPGs in the 80s with its huge variety of systems, it is refreshing to see people returning to that level of experimentation instead of being stuck in a rut.

The more vocal members appear to be mostly (but not all) younger people whose notion of an RPG was defined in the later 90s and early 00s. The late 90s were the dark ages of RPGs, as systems consolidated and the market shrunk. There was very little variability, and the definition of an RPG became very narrow. While D&D 3.x injected some new life in the RPG market, the d20 system caused even more consolidation and less variability.

Interestingly enough, many of the lead designers from BioWare are among the older generation.


Funny, I found it the opposite: most of those who are unhappy with the changes from ME1 to ME2 are of the older generation who played RPGs and cRPGs in the 80's and early 90's and care as much about the depth of mechanics and stats with regards to gameplay as they do about the narrative. And I'm amongst them: I was brought up not only playing P&P D&D during that era, but also playing the old SSI AD&D RPGs and others of similar ilk (The Might & Magic series before it became "Heroes of..." and the Dungeon Master games, Ishar, a little later on Captive, Liberation and Hired Guns, etc.

I personally am really disliking the direction BioWare seems to be taking because I think they're overstreamlining their RPGs lately and dumbing them down for the younger audience. And from where I'm sitting it seems to be more those who game into things during KotOR or Jade Empire or even later who are most at east with BioWare's transition to "Watered-down RPG-Lite Action Games" nowadays.

#298
Lumikki

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I'm older RPG player and I'm not unhappy with changed between ME1 and ME2. So I don't think it has anything to do with been older or younger RPG player. It's more about how everyone see as what RPG is. Some people here seem to see as main point of roleplaying is ability player to take role of character in story, while other people thinks it's more about ability define characters role to play in story. In simple way sayed, the difference is more like impression vs stats as what's more important for roleplaying for different RPG players.

Modifié par Lumikki, 13 février 2011 - 09:32 .


#299
Terror_K

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Well, some people look for different things from an RPG. Some people are happy as long as the actual roleplaying elements remain strong and love the cinematic presentation, etc. while others place more importance in the more statistical gameplay elements along with customisation and depth of gameplay. People who prefer the former probably aren't as disappointed in ME2 as those who prefer the latter (I personally like both, but think the latter is more important, even if it's the former that made me love BioWare RPGs more than RPGs made by other developers).



BioWare's gotten only better and better with the former, but I feel they've slipped with regards to the latter. And even "slipped" isn't quite the right term, since I think it's more a case of them intentionally choosing to push these aspects aside and dumb down the mechanics of their RPGs rather than them actually starting to lose it. One of the reasons I loved DAO so much is because I felt it was as close as BioWare had come to getting that dead-on perfect blend of the RPG stuff of old along with the presentation of more modern games. A shame that ME2 neglects the former too much, and from what I've seen it appears DA2 is going to suffer the same fate. It's a shame to be that whole BioWare have adopted some of modern gaming's better attributes, lately they seem to have also decided to adopt some of the trends I don't like in modern games (oversimplification where not needed, mainstreamlining, beyond minimalist interfaces, babying the player, etc.).

#300
HrznKn

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Mesina2 wrote...

HrznKn wrote...

Mechanics aside, the main plot (collector-reaper story) was too laughable to be anywhere near the top 5 imo.


I didn't laugh.

It started out well enough, but every main storyline mission made it worse, and then ending ... lawl.


No it wasn't.

Suspension of disbelief came crashing down pretty hard.


There was build up?


Can't really go into detail without  giving spoilers.
Suffice to say i didnt find the buildup believable, the explanation given unsatisfying.
The me1 story i think was "harder" SF than the one in ME2 so i was disappointed.

Mesina2 wrote...
Riiiight...
Just don't point out why you didn't like Mass Effect 2, your shared opinion is very meaningful then.

Sorry wat?

Modifié par HrznKn, 13 février 2011 - 10:31 .