440 réponses à ce sujet

[Tasker]

flem1 wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

There's no way in hell a reviewer is going to bad mouth a game that a publisher like EA is hyping up to be the second coming.

And that's why it won every players' poll GOTY under the sun!

The "it's bribes!" theorists are hilarious.  Every big release gets pushed.  Not every big release gets a 94 Metacritic -- making it, in fact, the #2 RPG of all time and the top in the 11 years since BG2 was released.

I never meant to say that that was the "sole" reason for ME2 getting the reviews that it did, but i'm betting it had an influence on it.

Was ME2 a good game? Yes.

Was it worthy of all the 9s and 10s that it recieved?  No. Not in my opinion.

I'll admit, not every reviewer is going to skew their results, and i'll also admit that not everyone likes the same thing.  But when there are so many high scores for a game that has as many shortcommings as ME2 has, then I have to wonder.

There are shed loads of games out there that recieved high scores, and yet I found them seriously wanting. There are also a lot of games out there that recieved low marks that I really enjoyed.

At the end of the day, it's not down to the reviewers, it's down to the consumers, and wether they deserve it or not there are always going to be games that rate really high marks and really low marks.

For me, ME2 does not warrent the praise that it is receiving.

Modifié par Orkboy, 13 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[Phaedon]

Accusing someone of bribery is a very nice motive for being sued.

ME2 was praised both by customers and reviewers.

Mass Effect 2


Released for PC, XBOX 360 and PS3.

Critical Acclaim
PC Metascore: 94/100
PS3 Metascore: 94/100
XBOX Metascore: 96/100

Costumer Acclaim
PC User Score:
8.9 (Metacritic)
9.3 (IGN)

PS3 User Score:
8.7 (Metacritic)
8.9 (IGN)

XBOX User Score:
9.0 (Metacritic)
9.2 (IGN)

This post is valid as of 30/01/2011

Modifié par Phaedon, 13 février 2011 - 01:04 .

[Terror_K]

Just because Mass Effect 2 is a good game, doesn't mean it's a good RPG, or good at being an RPG. But, again, that can depend on what you're looking for in an RPG. As a cinematic, story-driven, interactive experience ME2 is pretty fantastic. As an RPG... not so much. It's all about perspective.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mass Effect 2 simply can't be the best RPG of the past 10 years, because Mass Effect was a better RPG.

[Null_]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mass Effect 2 simply can't be the best RPG of the past 10 years, because Mass Effect was a better RPG.

Mass effect 2 was made by reapers to distract us

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Mass Effect 2 simply can't be the best RPG of the past 10 years, because Mass Effect was a better RPG.

Both of the Mass Effects are hybrids. Traditional RPG elements are only needed in parts that the player can't control. Unlike the accuracy stat.

Modifié par Phaedon, 13 février 2011 - 02:43 .

[Nohvarr]

Best Cinematic Party RPG in 10 years, hands down. ME 1 was a great game but it hadn't refined things as well as In 2.



Fallout 3 and Elder Scrolls are First person, immersive adventure RPG. They are great for exploration but lack some of the storytelling and characterization of ME 2. That Said, 'Skyrim' is likely to be the best FPI/RPG in some time.



Deus Ex HR is a hybrid FPS/RPG that might have FPIA elements in it. Too early to see how things will go.



DA: 2 is a party based RPG, that's been punched up

[Zeus_Deus]

Gleym wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Ah, right. So, because the author of that article's opinion differs from what you would have wrote, he or she must have been bribed.

Good to know.

Bethesda bribed the sh*t out of reviewers to give Fallout 3 a good review, just wanted to let you know. Actually, it's becoming a very prevailent occurance in the gaming industry overall. A company has money? Okay, they can afford to extend an invite to gaming events like E3 and pay for big-name reviewers to stay in four-to-five star hotels, and the company reps will even take the reviewers out to dinner at a restaurant. After buttering them up like that, they then hand them a pre-release of the game with a smile and effectively say, "You'll be 'fair' with us, won't you?"

By then the reviewers are so accustomed to being pampered like this that they go along with it and give a game that might have a ton of flaws that would normally detract from its scores a highly praising review, and an 8/10.

They needn't have bothered. I found the game well worthy of all the 90%+ scores it got.

[Zeus_Deus]

flem1 wrote...

Orkboy wrote...

There's no way in hell a reviewer is going to bad mouth a game that a publisher like EA is hyping up to be the second coming.

And that's why it won every players' poll GOTY under the sun!

The "it's bribes!" theorists are hilarious.  Every big release gets pushed.  Not every big release gets a 94 Metacritic -- making it, in fact, the #2 RPG of all time and the top in the 11 years since BG2 was released.

GOTY I can understand. Can't really think of too many notable titles in 2010 anyway.

Don't get me started on Metacritic scores.

I mean how can the same game get different scores on different formats. The XBox 360 got 96 whilst the PC (and PS3) got 94 and many people would say that these latter versions are technologically better (or "definitive", as Casey Hudson puts it).

P.S. On PC, ME2 got the same metascore as Oblivion and Diablo - all 94.

[Veex]

Orkboy wrote...
I never meant to say that that was the "sole" reason for ME2 getting the reviews that it did, but i'm betting it had an influence on it.

Was ME2 a good game? Yes.

Was it worthy of all the 9s and 10s that it recieved?  No. Not in my opinion.

I'll admit, not every reviewer is going to skew their results, and i'll also admit that not everyone likes the same thing.  But when there are so many high scores for a game that has as many shortcommings as ME2 has, then I have to wonder.

There are shed loads of games out there that recieved high scores, and yet I found them seriously wanting. There are also a lot of games out there that recieved low marks that I really enjoyed.

At the end of the day, it's not down to the reviewers, it's down to the consumers, and wether they deserve it or not there are always going to be games that rate really high marks and really low marks.

For me, ME2 does not warrent the praise that it is receiving.

I think that, if we're speaking about any "best of" topic, it is essential to not view the subject in only a personal focus. Obviously the initial list is simply one person's opinion, but when the conversation starts leaning towards metacritic and mass appeal then it is important to give some credence to what that mass audience has said. 

I'd be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't have a lot of shortcomings to someone. I think the goal of any developer is, if they aren't catering to a specific niche, to reduce the amount of shortcomings for the most people. I've got to think that based on how it is being received by a lot of people, both users and critics alike, that Mass Effect 2 has succeeded in that goal.

Is it the best RPG in the past ten years? An impossible question to answer. There isn't a criteria for what an RPG actually is, much less how you'd grade along that standard. Is Mass Effect 2 an extremely popular game in comparison to past BioWare titles? I think the answer is an inarguable yes.

[Tasker]

Phaedon wrote...

Accusing someone of bribery is a very nice motive for being sued.

If that was aimed at me, then at what point did I mention bribes?

I was talking more along the lines of  "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."  You wouldn't go up to your boss, call him a wanker and expect to keep your monthly paycheck.

[aeetos21]

Let's be honest here. I think the Mass Effect franchise was the best game of the past decade (hell I'd go so far as to say, personally, ME2 was the best game ever) but best RPG? For me it was never about the RPG elements, the game makes you into a real hero that carries throughout this epic space drama. But best RPG? That one I'd have to give to Bethesda though I do hope they create full voiced dialogue in their upcoming SKyrim.

[Phaedon]

Orkboy wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Accusing someone of bribery is a very nice motive for being sued.

If that was aimed at me, then at what point did I mention bribes?

I was talking more along the lines of  "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."  You wouldn't go up to your boss, call him a wanker and expect to keep your monthly paycheck.

I noticed that a few other posters mentioned that someone accused the reviewers of bribery, I don't know if they meant you or not.

I was talking more along the lines of  "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

I hope that you are not talking about reviewers, because that's pretty much the same thing.

[AlanC9]

Terror_K wrote...

Just because Mass Effect 2 is a good game, doesn't mean it's a good RPG, or good at being an RPG. But, again, that can depend on what you're looking for in an RPG. As a cinematic, story-driven, interactive experience ME2 is pretty fantastic. As an RPG... not so much. It's all about perspective.

Hmm... when I say "good RPG" I mean a game that fits into the RPG category and is also a good game. I suppose someone could use "good RPG" to mean a game that has a lot of RPG-ness, however you want to define that, but I can't think of any reason to rank games in terms of their RPG-ness.

[vader da slayer]

Hey guis guess what EA bribed the committee that determines the IAA too!!11!!11!!!! (the IAA, Interactive Achievement Awards, the Oscars of video games, ie most prestigeous awards for video games).

Ok in all seriousness, at the IAA (just a few days ago) Mass Effect 2 took home the top prize (ie Game of the Year) and "In addition to game of the year, Mass Effect 2 also won for outstanding achievement in story and role playing/massively multiplayer game of the year."

link to article

learned about this on the xbox forums. so please people shut up with the damn bribe comments do you know how much money EA would have to spend to get this ONE title that many high reviews (meta critic average of 94.7)? more than that one game would make them in return, ever. Have those of you who say "ME2 cant be THAT good blah blah bribery blah blah" stopped to think that, hey maybe it IS that good and Im just too dumb to realise it? Like serously name one game (doesn't even need to be an rpg) out there that has a better story, has better combat sequence and flow, has better acting (just ruled out every jrpg and WoW), and has a better written universe (things like all the back stories, all the technology explanations and atmosphere). Thing is you wont find one. The Elderscrolls has some great things about it and I love the series but it can't hold a candle to Mass Effect. JRPG's combat sequencing and flow is more akin to people doing pencil/paper rpging which is fairly boring, the only JRPG I've ever played that felt like it was fun while playing it were the Front Mission games on PS (specificly FM3) but the story was pretty cookie cutter and there was no acting to it.

fact is is that you cannot find another game out there that combines a TPS with an rpg succesfully, keeps the action at the right pace not just a fast pace, has this good of a story (as one of the accolades for this game says "its the Avatar of games but better written") and has the acting behind it to bring it all together.

also the reason a (say) PC version of a game may get lower scores than say a console version could be because of controls or interface options, which a game is scored on too. not all scoring of a game has to do with the "fun factor" and acticing and things. a lot of the games score is based on how easy is the game to use and how easy is it to do things and see things in the games GUI.

Modifié par vader da slayer, 13 février 2011 - 07:59 .

[Phaedon]

ME2 has actually broken the GOTY record. No other game has received 150+ awards.

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

ME2 has actually broken the GOTY record. No other game has received 150+ awards.

And some people still insist ME2 is bad game.<_<

[Tamahome560]

Haters gonna hate on lack of OMFG RPG elements. Deal with it.



There is no definitive single definition of an RPG. Anything can be made into an RPG. ME2 has less classical RPG elements than ME but it is still RPG. Deal with it.

[Lumikki]

Terror_K wrote...

Just because Mass Effect 2 is a good game, doesn't mean it's a good RPG, or good at being an RPG. But, again, that can depend on what you're looking for in an RPG. As a cinematic, story-driven, interactive experience ME2 is pretty fantastic. As an RPG... not so much. It's all about perspective.

Yes, but You do know that this is also depending how you define the RPG. Like we talked before, for you RPG has little different meaning that for example for me. Seems to me that hole player community here is split here how RPG should be defined.

I think it's difference between what role-playing really is and how the orginal role-playing games where design.  Who sayes that role-playing games can only be done the orginal design ways. Not everyting need to be categorize so, that every game is like they own design only, why not allow them all be hybrids where only the main style defines what it is.

[Terror_K]

Veex wrote...

Is it the best RPG in the past ten years? An impossible question to answer. There isn't a criteria for what an RPG actually is, much less how you'd grade along that standard. Is Mass Effect 2 an extremely popular game in comparison to past BioWare titles? I think the answer is an inarguable yes.

That may be, but ME2 is extremely popular for the reason that it's actually less RPG than most other previous BioWare titles and because it's more of a shooter, because shooters are the "in thing" these days. It's more popular because it's becoming more mainstream and appeals more to the massive CoD and Halo audiences of today.

AlanC9 wrote...

Hmm... when I say "good RPG" I mean a game that fits into the RPG category and is also a good game. I suppose someone could use "good RPG" to mean a game that has a lot of RPG-ness, however you want to define that, but I can't think of any reason to rank games in terms of their RPG-ness.

I just don't think that it's RPG elements are strong enough, which is why it getting called "the best RPG of the past decade" is actually insulting to proper RPGs, IMO. As far as I'm concerned ME2 just barely qualifies, and is too much of a hybrid to really be worthy of the top prize. I also find its RPG elements highly unsatisfactory and oversimplified, and on top of that (for the third time) it's an RPG that only lets you guide a pre-defined character and nudge them a little rather than fully roleplay them.

And yes, as much as I'm a big fan of ME1, I don't think it deserves the title either, though I would say it does slightly more than ME2 does. I'd even say Alpha Protocol deserves it better, and it was probably a weaker "game" than ME2 was, but a superior RPG from a technical standpoint. I'd probably personall give it to either KotOR or Dragon Age Origins. I'd have added NWN but I think it's not quite cinematic enough and relies just a tad too much on old tropes. NWN2 was a bit better, but too buggy and flawed. Fallout New Vegas is also pretty up there. Oblivion is fun, but doesn't really offer enough proper roleplaying and defining of your character's personality.

To me giving ME2 that title would be like giving Portal the "best FPS Shooter" title just because you have a portal "gun" that you shoot from a first-person perspective.

Modifié par Terror_K, 13 février 2011 - 10:42 .

[Tasker]

Phaedon wrote...
I noticed that a few other posters mentioned that someone accused the reviewers of bribery, I don't know if they meant you or not.

I was talking more along the lines of  "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

I hope that you are not talking about reviewers, because that's pretty much the same thing.

I know it can be taken that way, but there is a difference in the way I meant it.

One is being payed money solely to twist things to give a specific favourable result/outcome.
 
The other is relying on revenue generated for legitimate services and being worried that by giving negative feedback you could subconciously effect  future revenue prospects.

[2kgnsiika]

Whether something is a RPG or not is an incredibly stupid thing to debate.



ME2 was simply the best game of the decade.



That is all.

[AlanC9]

Terror_K wrote...
I just don't think that it's RPG elements are strong enough, which is why it getting called "the best RPG of the past decade" is actually insulting to proper RPGs, IMO.

Insulting? Hmm... you mean that if the "best RPG" doesn't have a lot of the things that most RPGs have, then the implication is that those typical RPG attributes aren't any good in the first place?

[hosch]

vader da slayer wrote...
/snip
Ok in all seriousness, at the IAA (just a few days ago) Mass Effect 2 took home the top prize (ie Game of the Year) and "In addition to game of the year, Mass Effect 2 also won for outstanding achievement in story and role playing/massively multiplayer game of the year."
/snip

Dude, keep cool. My post about bribing the author wasn't serious, so please guys don't get too emotional about it.
No one here said Mass Effect is a crappy game. Well, maybe one or two heretics but obviously we dont agree with each other's definition of rpg.
What is rpg for you? how you define it? character customization? freedom of choice? method of storytelling?
open world but with a optional main plot and full character customization (i.e. TES) or deep but straight story with well written characters and a movielike storytelling? (i.e. Mass Effect, Wing Commander 4)
My definition of rpg is: open world, character customization, freedom of choice -> main plot but optional, good and balanced action parts, well written and spoken dialogues. A story that makes sence, a believable story. All the other parts about mechanics, visuals etc are secondary.
Every game that don't meet my requirements are derivates or hybrids. ie: action-rpg (me2, wc4, deadspace), rts-rpg (wc3), etc. That is my definition of rpg.

fact is is that you cannot find another game out there that combines a TPS with an rpg succesfully, keeps the action at the right pace not just a fast pace, has this good of a story (as one of the accolades for this game says "its the Avatar of games but better written") and has the acting behind it to bring it all together.

It's not very hard to find a game or a movie that story and storytelling is better than Avatar's...
I guess you've never played Dead Space?
Even Tetris got its story and rpg elements if you want: www.youtube.com/watch
or SMB: the massmurderer and drug addict Mario on his stampede rescuing his "princess" but randomly killing everything that is in his way.
It's kind of ridiculous to compare avatar with movies and games with a story that makes sence.
www.youtube.com/watch <- Avatar and story lol
But thank you, you confirmed my point:

Maybe the definition of a rpg changed between the 80s and 2011.
Nowadays people need action and visual spectacles to like a game or a movie. Maybe thats the reason why bioware decided to cut the old school rpg part off Mass Effect 2.
Look at the movies and games that are produced today and compare them with movies and games between 1980-2000. The tendency is to more action & visual effects and away from deep stories and character development. Best candidate for the crappiest story and character development but outstanding visual effects: Avatar!

Fortunately, bioware managed to give their games a very good story with good to moderate developed characters but they made Mass Effect more mainstream. Well, i loved ME1 and what they did. Very good characters, deep story, good graphics (look at the E3 demos of ME1 with great light/shadow effects) and for me the most likeable part: no hardcore rpg elements as in DA:O or D&D-like games. No need for math to find out if i hit or not and for how much damage

My conclusion: Mass Effect is a great action rpg with an awesome story but in my opinion not the best pure rpg in decades. There are better than ME. Gothic 1+2, TES 3+4 for example.
Suggestions for ME3: Combine the best parts of ME1 and ME2, the rpg parts and storytelling (awesome plot missions) of ME1 and the graphics and parts of the combat system of ME2. (no need for inventory, but let the guns and armor be better customizable, Overlord/LotSB-dlc like sidemissions with the Hammerhead or Mako )

Modifié par hosch, 14 février 2011 - 02:33 .

[bandfred]

Pretty damn insulting considering Morrowind came out in the past 10 years.


I'm watching you....scum. >:|

Modifié par bandfred, 14 février 2011 - 12:52 .