440 réponses à ce sujet

[habitat 67]

Lumikki wrote...

Kotor had excelent story and characters what did make it great game, but gameplay wasn't really that good. I ques it was good enough when it was new game. Even DAO has better gameplay..

I think KOTOR was really really important to Star Wars fans appalled by the horrors that were the prequels.
The game's timing couldn't have been more perfect.

[spernus]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I'd say for me, a good RPG has to have a good amount of good content (like side quests, varying enemies, weapons, etc.), a story that doesn't suck TOO much (and has a bit of originality), likeable characters, characters you hate to love but love to hate, good gameplay (I hate turn-based RPGs), A decent amount of exploration, and above all, NOT A JRPG.

JRPGs are all the same nowadays with cookie cutter characters and story.

In that case,don't mention any Bethesda game. They can't write and they are easily the sloppiest AAA developer out there.I would say that: Morrowind,Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the best bad games ever made.Incoherent worlds,stories,lifeless npcs and some of the dumbest ideas make it into their games (level scaling in Oblivion,leveling system of the Elder scroll might be the silliest I have seen).

Mass effect 3 will easily block The elder's scroll 5 from both the game of the year or best rpg award (as will dark soul and the Witcher 2 imo).

By the way,you should try out Dark soul when it's released.It's an jrpg inspired by the west and it will have plenty of exploration,great implementation of online and a high level of difficulty.It's also an action rpg that will be better than what Bethesda might ever be able to come out with (just based on Demon's soul which should be played as well).

[vader da slayer]

hosch wrote...
/Big snip

Dude, keep cool. My post about bribing the author wasn't serious, so please guys don't get too emotional about it.
No one here said Mass Effect is a crappy game. Well, maybe one or two heretics but obviously we dont agree with each other's definition of rpg.
What is rpg for you? how you define it? character customization? freedom of choice? method of storytelling?
open world but with a optional main plot and full character customization (i.e. TES) or deep but straight story with well written characters and a movielike storytelling? (i.e. Mass Effect, Wing Commander 4)
My definition of rpg is: open world, character customization, freedom of choice -> main plot but optional, good and balanced action parts, well written and spoken dialogues. A story that makes sence, a believable story. All the other parts about mechanics, visuals etc are secondary.
Every game that don't meet my requirements are derivates or hybrids. ie: action-rpg (me2, wc4, deadspace), rts-rpg (wc3), etc. That is my definition of rpg.

an RPG is just that, a role playing game, a game in which you assume, take control of, and plot the path of a story for a character. and even though the end may be a predetermined thing (in most movies you can already take a guess at the ending and be nearly spot on but you can't even begin to predict what goes on in the middle, ie the story) the END is not the STORY. Most people get so caught up in the outcome that they didn't pay any attention to the story. an rpg isn't catagorized as an rpg because of some mandatory game mechanic (be it turned based combat or something similar). an rpg is an rpg because it lets you decide how things persist and how the story unfolds. other things that should be in there are customization and some kind of leveling/character building system. 

for me the reason TES is an rpg is thanks to its customization of classes, the fact it has a leveling process that makes more sense than most and the combat (in morrowind after a point) is fun. the open world aspect has nothing to do with it. like for instance, that big cliff over looking that lake in the NE of Cyrodil in Oblivion, never been there but it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game, they could completely remove it and I'd still have had teh same experience. for the most part I don't look at an game to see if its open world or not and make some kind of decision based off of it. while TES games have much more realesate than ME games, the ME games are more fun and more immersive than any of the TES games so far.open worlds have no bearing (for me and tons of other people) on an rpgs status of fun or no fun (or insert any aspect of gaming in there such as imersiveness). like GTA has an open world, spoken dialogue, and a story that can make sense yet its not really an rpg nor do I find it fun to say the least.

as far as ME2 goes, is it an RPG? yes, pure and simple. it sets you in the role of Comander Shepard and you have to make the story happen by playing the role you want him to play. you have a selection on classes and even the ability to give that class some flare (customization) with a unique power. it has a logical leveling system. fluid and fun combat with great story telling and acting. the one (litterally one) aspect that ME2 dosen't meet your requirement as an rpg is open world. and one big thing that could make ME seem more like action adventure than an RPG is that any rpg that involves shooting a gun is a turned based game (KotOR was turned based) and the few that tried to do what ME does in the past have more or less failed or barely scraped out a meeger exsitance. Most view ME as some kind of "hybrid" just because it feels a lot like, say, Rainbow Six Vegas when it comes to combat as opposed to the more traditional combat that 90+% of all rpgs share (swords/axes/magic etc).

also my comments on the bribe thing wasn't aimed at you but the group of people that say that goes on (and there are people out there that do believe that happens) and I wasn't mad or anything like that either.

[habitat 67]

It seems that Gametrailers is having a poll too, giving 36 RPG choices to select from including runaway blockbusters such as Titan Quest and Mount & Blade.

 http://forums.gametr...00-2010/1051936

Modifié par habitat 67, 14 février 2011 - 10:05 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

spernus wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I'd say for me, a good RPG has to have a good amount of good content (like side quests, varying enemies, weapons, etc.), a story that doesn't suck TOO much (and has a bit of originality), likeable characters, characters you hate to love but love to hate, good gameplay (I hate turn-based RPGs), A decent amount of exploration, and above all, NOT A JRPG.

JRPGs are all the same nowadays with cookie cutter characters and story.

In that case,don't mention any Bethesda game. They can't write and they are easily the sloppiest AAA developer out there.I would say that: Morrowind,Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the best bad games ever made.Incoherent worlds,stories,lifeless npcs and some of the dumbest ideas make it into their games (level scaling in Oblivion,leveling system of the Elder scroll might be the silliest I have seen).

Mass effect 3 will easily block The elder's scroll 5 from both the game of the year or best rpg award (as will dark soul and the Witcher 2 imo).

By the way,you should try out Dark soul when it's released.It's an jrpg inspired by the west and it will have plenty of exploration,great implementation of online and a high level of difficulty.It's also an action rpg that will be better than what Bethesda might ever be able to come out with (just based on Demon's soul which should be played as well).

Sure the stories aren't the greatest, but at least it's something we haven't seen a MILLION times.

[spernus]

Oblivion main storyline definitively was a case of being seen a million time over,especially the cliche fire and brimstone setting.Those sidequests saved the game for me,especially the dark brotherhood.

Although I will admit jrpgs are beyond stale at this point,except for Demon's soul.Most of them are nearly unplayable or marred with perplexing design decisions.

Modifié par spernus, 14 février 2011 - 10:17 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

What I think has been done to death (stories wise) is the typical soldier fighting the typical aliens that are typically bent on typically destroying all life/humans.

[vader da slayer]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

What I think has been done to death (stories wise) is the typical soldier fighting the typical aliens that are typically bent on typically destroying all life/humans.

damn and here I thought I had a good idea for a story.

[Gleym]

habitat 67 wrote...

It seems that Gametrailers is having a poll too, giving 36 RPG choices to select from including runaway blockbusters such as Titan Quest and Mount & Blade.

 http://forums.gametr...00-2010/1051936

I'm pleased to see Baldur's Gate 2 in the lead. And the Witcher's in third or fourth place, too. Both games deserving of 'The Best', at least.

Modifié par Gleym, 14 février 2011 - 11:05 .

[PaulSX]

if including 2000, the best RPG has to be baldur's gate 2, it's just so huge and versatile....2nd for me would be FONV, 3rd is DAO. I'd rather say mass effect 2 is the best game in last decade, but it's really lack of the core rpg elements, so best RPG? definitely not

[hosch]

vader da slayer wrote...

as far as ME2 goes, is it an RPG? yes, pure and simple. it sets you in the role of Comander Shepard and you have to make the story happen by playing the role you want him to play.

Where in ME you take control of your character's actions? The collector harbinger does more roleplay assuming control of a collector drone than the player in ME.
There is no freedom of choice in ME. Taking control of a character alone doesn't make a game a rpg. Few customization options alone don't make a game a rpg. Good storytelling alone doesn't make a game a rpg. Even an open world alone doesn't make a game a rpg. Those are rpg elements which many genres use nowadays.
Action-rpg, rts-rpg, fps-rpg, carracing-rpg etc.
Your actions have no effect on the world.

By your definition CoD is a rpg too, because you play a character, got a story, you don't bother running a predefined path to the goal, you got character customization with perks and weapon upgrades, different clothes, got vehicles etc. No leveling system, but hey who cares. In ME2 the leveling system is a joke. How the story unfolds? Both in CoD and in ME your actions have no effect on the outcome. You win or die. Thats all.
i.e Tali's loyaltymission on the Alarei: I plundered the Alarei, robbed every wallsafe with Tali standing by me and nothing happened. In every other rpg you had your problems, if you broke into someones house and stole a spoon.

ME1 was so likeable for me because it has less rpg elements than other games around. I'm sick and tired of swinging swords and throwing magic fireballs at trolls, orcs and elve and speak like a medieval idiot on dope.
I like the way Bioware went in ME1.
Why the hell they had to remove the already few rpg elements in ME2? Thats what i criticize. If they continue, ME3 will be just another CoD copy.
Is ME2 a rpg? yes, an action-adventure-rpg. Is it a game of the year? hell yeah.
Is it the best rpg (per definition) in decades? www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par hosch, 14 février 2011 - 01:00 .

[Slayer299]

Mass Effect 2 was a good game, even a really good game. It was a shooter with RPG elements, but as far as being the best RPG in the last 10 years? Not. Even. Close. Especially when it leaves out a game like Deus Ex which doesn't even make the list at all.



I know it's supposed to be an opinion list but its still wrong nonetheless (to me that is).

[Phaedon]

Uuuhhh, why is this thread still alive? I thought that we reached the consensus that ME2 is their favourite RPG because it was their favourite game and is considered a hybrid RPG at some point?

[Cra5y Pineapple]

 Let's face it, everyone loves Mass Effect 2 (including me) except Bioware fans.

[hosch]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

 Let's face it, everyone loves Mass Effect 2 (including me) except Bioware fans.

Then you didn't get the point of our discussion.

[Chromie]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Yep...right. *looks at the calender* hmm it's not even the first of April, I'm baffled.

Yes sports fans, according to The Bottom Line, ME2 is the BEST RPG of the past decade, beating out games like KotOR, Oblivion, and Fallout 3. Don't get me wrong, I love ME2, but best RPG of the decade? You're joking, right?

EDIT: fixed title spelling

Well i don't think Fallout 3 and Oblivion are anywhere near Koor's level.

[Zeus_Deus]

spernus wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

I'd say for me, a good RPG has to have a good amount of good content (like side quests, varying enemies, weapons, etc.), a story that doesn't suck TOO much (and has a bit of originality), likeable characters, characters you hate to love but love to hate, good gameplay (I hate turn-based RPGs), A decent amount of exploration, and above all, NOT A JRPG.

JRPGs are all the same nowadays with cookie cutter characters and story.

In that case,don't mention any Bethesda game. They can't write and they are easily the sloppiest AAA developer out there.I would say that: Morrowind,Oblivion and Fallout 3 are the best bad games ever made.Incoherent worlds,stories,lifeless npcs and some of the dumbest ideas make it into their games (level scaling in Oblivion,leveling system of the Elder scroll might be the silliest I have seen).

Mass effect 3 will easily block The elder's scroll 5 from both the game of the year or best rpg award (as will dark soul and the Witcher 2 imo).

By the way,you should try out Dark soul when it's released.It's an jrpg inspired by the west and it will have plenty of exploration,great implementation of online and a high level of difficulty.It's also an action rpg that will be better than what Bethesda might ever be able to come out with (just based on Demon's soul which should be played as well).

Bethesda sloppy? - Hardly.

Sure the stories are shallow, but the game worlds of Oblivion and Fallout 3 are some of the largest, detailed, beautiful and most atmospheric of any game period!

Ironic that you should mention lifeless NPCs. Most developers (including Bioware) just put in characters as part of the background - you can't even interact with them. At least in Fallout 3 and Oblivion the NPC's have daily routines and you can interact with them.

These aren't the mark of a "sloppy" developer.

[Zeus_Deus]

suntzuxi wrote...

if including 2000, the best RPG has to be baldur's gate 2, it's just so huge and versatile....2nd for me would be FONV, 3rd is DAO. I'd rather say mass effect 2 is the best game in last decade, but it's really lack of the core rpg elements, so best RPG? definitely not

Best game in last decade?! That would be going too far, although it'd be up there near the top.

The trouble is I can't really see any area which it excels in, except for cinematic storytelling - but even then, it doesn't really do anything that ME1 didn't.

Also, the story isn't a good as ME1.
As a shooter, it's good, but nothing special.
Graphics are good, but I've seen better.
As an RPG it just scrapes by.

Perhaps it's because it does good in most areas, excell in one and doesn't really fail in any that makes it an excellent all-round game.

[Zeus_Deus]

Ringo12 wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Yep...right. *looks at the calender* hmm it's not even the first of April, I'm baffled.

Yes sports fans, according to The Bottom Line, ME2 is the BEST RPG of the past decade, beating out games like KotOR, Oblivion, and Fallout 3. Don't get me wrong, I love ME2, but best RPG of the decade? You're joking, right?

EDIT: fixed title spelling

Well i don't think Fallout 3 and Oblivion are anywhere near Koor's level.

What's with all the retro-love?

I played KoTOR and while it was good, I didn't think it was anything special.

To be fair though this was after I played DA:O.

The only reason I tried KoTOR was because I liked other Bioware games like DAO and ME, and hearing people say how brilliant KoTOR was.

Maybe if I played it at the time of it's release when it was considered cutting edge, then maybe I would have liked it even more but having played more modern games like DAO, Oblivion etc it just seems so badly dated now.

[Gatt9]

vader da slayer wrote...
for me the reason TES is an rpg is thanks to its customization of classes, the fact it has a leveling process that makes more sense than most and the combat (in morrowind after a point) is fun. the open world aspect has nothing to do with it. like for instance, that big cliff over looking that lake in the NE of Cyrodil in Oblivion, never been there but it didn't affect my enjoyment of the game, they could completely remove it and I'd still have had teh same experience. for the most part I don't look at an game to see if its open world or not and make some kind of decision based off of it. while TES games have much more realesate than ME games, the ME games are more fun and more immersive than any of the TES games so far.open worlds have no bearing (for me and tons of other people) on an rpgs status of fun or no fun (or insert any aspect of gaming in there such as imersiveness). like GTA has an open world, spoken dialogue, and a story that can make sense yet its not really an rpg nor do I find it fun to say the least.

as far as ME2 goes, is it an RPG? yes, pure and simple. it sets you in the role of Comander Shepard and you have to make the story happen by playing the role you want him to play. you have a selection on classes and even the ability to give that class some flare (customization) with a unique power. it has a logical leveling system. fluid and fun combat with great story telling and acting. the one (litterally one) aspect that ME2 dosen't meet your requirement as an rpg is open world. and one big thing that could make ME seem more like action adventure than an RPG is that any rpg that involves shooting a gun is a turned based game (KotOR was turned based) and the few that tried to do what ME does in the past have more or less failed or barely scraped out a meeger exsitance. Most view ME as some kind of "hybrid" just because it feels a lot like, say, Rainbow Six Vegas when it comes to combat as opposed to the more traditional combat that 90+% of all rpgs share (swords/axes/magic etc).

also my comments on the bribe thing wasn't aimed at you but the group of people that say that goes on (and there are people out there that do believe that happens) and I wasn't mad or anything like that either.

Two points to make...

1.  You don't level in Oblivion,  the world is static around you.  A level 1 character can be the greatest arena warrior and defeat the end boss.  It's all illusionary.

2.  ME2 isn't an RPG.  You never take on the Role of commander shephard,  he's an avatar for you.  He has no inherent skills,  they're all your skills.  Even in ME,  he had his own skills that overrode yours making it an RPG.  In ME2,  he's nothing more than placeholder art for you.  Which fails the RPG test.

Bethesda sloppy? - Hardly.

Sure the stories are shallow, but the game worlds of Oblivion and Fallout 3 are some of the largest, detailed, beautiful and most atmospheric of any game period!

Ironic that you should mention lifeless NPCs. Most developers (including Bioware) just put in characters as part of the background - you can't even interact with them. At least in Fallout 3 and Oblivion the NPC's have daily routines and you can interact with them.

These aren't the mark of a "sloppy" developer

They're not sloppy,  they're single minded,  and what they really want to make are Shooters not RPGs.  They neither like nor understand the fundamental basis of RPGs,  such as Role vs Avatar,  and Character Progression.  Heck,  one of them decried Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 for not using First-person perspective.  FPP in a RTS,  I mean honestly,  how could anyone say that outloud and not immediately see the problem with it?

[hosch]

98' Battlezone 1+2, great games.

[Capeo]

Zeus_Deus wrote...

Bethesda sloppy? - Hardly.

Sure the stories are shallow, but the game worlds of Oblivion and Fallout 3 are some of the largest, detailed, beautiful and most atmospheric of any game period!

Ironic that you should mention lifeless NPCs. Most developers (including Bioware) just put in characters as part of the background - you can't even interact with them. At least in Fallout 3 and Oblivion the NPC's have daily routines and you can interact with them.

These aren't the mark of a "sloppy" developer.

THIS.  You people decrying Bethesda are crazy.  There are no other RPGs out there that actually let you craft a character as completely as the Bethesda RPGs.  No other games that allow as much freedom in how to deal with situations and no other worlds that feel as big or alive.  I'm not real sure what folks want out of RPGs if freedom isn't at the top of the list.  In the last decade no games have sucked more of my life away than Oblivion and Fallout 3.  I'm quite sure Skyrim is going to do the same.

[Chromie]

Zeus_Deus wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Yep...right. *looks at the calender* hmm it's not even the first of April, I'm baffled.

Yes sports fans, according to The Bottom Line, ME2 is the BEST RPG of the past decade, beating out games like KotOR, Oblivion, and Fallout 3. Don't get me wrong, I love ME2, but best RPG of the decade? You're joking, right?

EDIT: fixed title spelling

Well i don't think Fallout 3 and Oblivion are anywhere near Kotor's level.

What's with all the retro-love?

I played KoTOR and while it was good, I didn't think it was anything special.

To be fair though this was after I played DA:O.

The only reason I tried KoTOR was because I liked other Bioware games like DAO and ME, and hearing people say how brilliant KoTOR was.

Maybe if I played it at the time of it's release when it was considered cutting edge, then maybe I would have liked it even more but having played more modern games like DAO, Oblivion etc it just seems so badly dated now.

Well yea playing it when it was first out it was probably the best game out that year imo. But Fallout 3 is nothing like 1 or 2. Oblivion is not as good as Morrowind. Kotor was new game not a sequel or prequel to any game. It was refreshing and well Star Wars!

[Gleym]

Capeo wrote...

Zeus_Deus wrote...

Bethesda sloppy? - Hardly.

Sure the stories are shallow, but the game worlds of Oblivion and Fallout 3 are some of the largest, detailed, beautiful and most atmospheric of any game period!

Ironic that you should mention lifeless NPCs. Most developers (including Bioware) just put in characters as part of the background - you can't even interact with them. At least in Fallout 3 and Oblivion the NPC's have daily routines and you can interact with them.

These aren't the mark of a "sloppy" developer.

THIS.  You people decrying Bethesda are crazy.  There are no other RPGs out there that actually let you craft a character as completely as the Bethesda RPGs.  No other games that allow as much freedom in how to deal with situations and no other worlds that feel as big or alive.  I'm not real sure what folks want out of RPGs if freedom isn't at the top of the list.  In the last decade no games have sucked more of my life away than Oblivion and Fallout 3.  I'm quite sure Skyrim is going to do the same.

Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 (do character freedom and exploratory freedom far better than Bethesda's RPGs), Planescape: Torment (character development beyond any other RPG out there), The Witcher, soon The Witcher 2.

Modifié par Gleym, 16 février 2011 - 02:23 .

[Lunatic LK47]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

By the same token, what make a game an RPG to you is slow, clunky combat, looting 6 copper, and arcane inventory.

:kissing:

Ding ding ding. You earned a year's supply of free beer.