440 réponses à ce sujet

[Gleym]

The biggest spit in the face is the fact that Planescape: Torment was released in December of 1999 and that game is 100% raw roleplaying game above any other game out there. If there ever was a 'greatest RPG of all time', then it'd be Torment.

Modifié par Gleym, 10 février 2011 - 04:14 .

[Zeus_Deus]

Cadaver19 wrote...

Morrowind was way better than oblivion. And fallout three was like a very toned down version of either of those games. Also no final fatasy tactics advanced, or The world ends with you.

Oblivion is better than Morrowind in 3 areas:

Audio i.e. voiced dialog vs text, and even overhearing NPC-NPC conversations
Graphics
but most important of all combat mechanics:

Morrowind tries to blend free combat with dice-throwing. Personally, I don't like this type of approach. I like the fact that if my weapon polygon intersects the enemy polygon it will always register a hit.

There is a long list of reasons as to why Oblivion's combat mechanics is vastly superior to Morrowind.

[Zeus_Deus]

Soul Reaver wrote...

The only RPG that's better is KOTOR. ME2 very easily beats any of Bethesda's games

Only KotOR is better, seriously?!

What about Dragon Age? - that basically has a similar system to KoTOR, but much more evolved/improved.

As for ME2 very easily beating Fallout 3, I kinda disagree.
Maybe the ME story is better, but the action/combat in Fallout 3 is much more varied and better.

I mean in ME you taking cover then pop out to shoot/use powers - this is kind of repetitive and gets old, fast.
At least with Fallout 3, you have a variety of tactics to use, ranging from stealth kills, sneak attacks, sniping from range, close combat, melee, tanking with heavy armour and weapons, laying mine traps and VATS kills are always hilarious.

Modifié par Zeus_Deus, 10 février 2011 - 04:51 .

[diskoh]

Hilarious that people outside of Bioware forums like the game more than some of you goons. Why are you here if you aren't that big of a fan?

[Phaelducan]

Gleym wrote...

The biggest spit in the face is the fact that Planescape: Torment was released in December of 1999 and that game is 100% raw roleplaying game above any other game out there. If there ever was a 'greatest RPG of all time', then it'd be Torment.

Again, no such beast. To you, Torment. Great. Ever play Daggerfall? Elder Scrolls 2 is literally an order of magnitude larger in scope of everything you talk about as being key in an RPG. Does it make it better? No, some people don't want to walk across England to solve a game.

It's all subjective... and no matter how much you want to quantify what makes a "true" RPG an RPG... you will never be able to do so. Hell, Pokemon is the greatest RPG to some people. There is no such thing as the greatest RPG. It all comes down to what you like.

By the way I agree that Torment was a great game... but maybe some people don't like Planescape, shrug. If you hate the setting... you won't like the game. 

[MrDizazta]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You know, all the other "AWESOME" RPGs you mentioned still made the list. Maybe ME2 won because the author liked it the most?

Or maybe a genre shouldn't be defined by mechanics alone.

Oh Snap!  Oh no you didn't!  I approve

[spernus]

Zeus_Deus wrote...

What are you talking about. Fallout 3 had a fantastic levelling system - vastly improved over Oblivion.

Nope,Fallout:New Vegas does it much better than Fallout 3.

The fact that you gain 1 perk every level make it so your character is overpowered when he's around 14-15.VATS is a bad replacement for the dice rolling combat of Fallout 1 & 2.It's completely brainless,devoided of any depth whatsoever and there's no skill involved as well.

Now,the Elder scroll V might finally have a decent leveling system along with good gameplay.When I played Bioshock,the first thing that came to my mind is that using a plasmid=how spells should be casted in the Elder's scroll.Bethesda saw the same thing so being a caster might finally be fun to play.   It's also good to see that jumping around like an idiot won't allow you to quickly powerlevel.It also seems that Bethesda was inspired by Demon's soul when it come to melee combat,so we might have something that actually take skill since we must properly time when to block an attack.

Modifié par spernus, 10 février 2011 - 07:06 .

[Chaos Gate]

Don't make me laugh. Mass Effect 2 isn't an RPG. It's not even a good sequel.

[bjdbwea]

Chaos Gate wrote...

Don't make me laugh. Mass Effect 2 isn't an RPG. It's not even a good sequel.

This. It might be a good shooter, but even there many better games exist. At least as far as the shooting aspect is concerned. I think that the people who rate ME 2 so highly are people who usually only play shooters. Because a shooter, or any game, with a real story and some nonlinearity is something completely new to them. But people who have played real RPGs before, especially previous BioWare games, can not ignore the numerous steps back in ME 2. A good RPG, let alone an evolution of the RPG genre, it is most certainly not.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 10 février 2011 - 09:44 .

[AlanC9]

bjdbwea wrote...
. I think that the people who rate ME 2 so highly are people who usually only play shooters. Because a shooter, or any game, with a real story and some nonlinearity is something completely new to them.  But people who have played real RPGs before, especially previous BioWare games, can not ignore the numerous steps back in ME 2. 

This is not only nonsense, it's obvious nonsense.  There are plenty of people here who have played "real RPGs" and who like ME2 just fine. You should know better. In fact, you do know better. 

Modifié par AlanC9, 10 février 2011 - 10:01 .

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Shotokanguy wrote...

This topic is just an excuse to start the "ME2 isn't an RPG why do people like it WAAAHHHH" crap again.

No, it's an "I'm baffled as to how they decided this" thread.

To put it in context - in KotOR you can do so much differently. You can kill people or help them, take differences sides in a conflict, kill your allies even if you want to. In the first planet of the game you can support one of two biker gangs, which leads to significantly different paths including character development for one of your companions.

In ME2 though you only do one thing though. Okay you can do it nicely or be a bastard, but you're still doing exactly the same thing. I get that it's that way because it's part of a trilogy, but seriously go and play KotOR and tell me that ME2 is a better RPG. Remember we're not talking about which is a better game only which is a better RPG.

[bjdbwea]

AlanC9 wrote...

There are plenty of people here who have played "real RPGs" and who like ME2 just fine.

RPG fans may like ME 2, but they can't call it the best RPG in ten years. That would be like saying that NWN was the best shooter in the last ten years. Or like seeing a cute cat and saying that it is the nicest dog that one has ever seen. It makes no sense. It might however be the nicest animal one has ever seen. Likewise, it's fine if people want to call ME 2 the best game in ten years. The best RPG however it can not be, that would be an insult to every good RPG that has been released throughout the years. So if someone insists on calling ME 2 the best RPG, they have either never played an actual RPG, which would render their opinion completely meaningless, or they seem to think that less RPG equals better RPG, which would be a valid opinion, but of course such a sentiment can not be the foundation for a discussion about which is the best real RPG.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 10 février 2011 - 11:07 .

[Terror_K]

Saying that Mass Effect 2 is the best RPG of the last decade is an insult to all the proper RPGs of the last decade. Hell... it's an insult to RPGs in general. Even most of BioWare's other ones.

[Whereto]

What its a RPG exactly? If its collecting random items and grinding at something for 3 hours, mass effect shouldn't win.If its about placing you in the boots of someone, on their journey and allowing you control over their choices and decisions, mass effect has a fairly good chance.

[Terror_K]

Whereto wrote...

What its a RPG exactly? If its collecting random items and grinding at something for 3 hours, mass effect shouldn't win.If its about placing you in the boots of someone, on their journey and allowing you control over their choices and decisions, mass effect has a fairly good chance.

No, because even then Mass Effect doesn't give you the full freedom to roleplay that games like Fallout, Dragon Age, NWN, KotOR, etc. do. All you do it get to nudge Shepard. And that's not even going into how the way the Paragon/Renegade system in ME2 restricted roleplaying immensely with its self-feeding system that basically forces players into two extreme roles in order to succeed.

[Reclusiarch]

Best RPG of the last decade? Definately!

[Fraevar]

I definitely would not call Mass Effect 2 the best RPG of the decade. As much as I like the game the lack of depth in character interaction and the protagonist will always keep it down on the list for me. Personally I'd say my RPG of the decade would be Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. BioWare did a great job there, managing a game that was more epic in scope but at the same time a lot more personal than what they managed in Mass Effect 2.

[Remus Artega]

The lack of Deus Ex, The Witcher makes the list pretty biased towards masses for me...heck by the swift look only I could add even Stalker to that list ...

[Funkcase]

As a overall game, it is one of the best games I have played in a long time, but as a rpg, it isn't. I would say Fallout: New Vegas, vampire the masquerade bloodlines, Mass effect 1, Dragon age origins, Kotor 1 and 2, Morrowind, Oblivion, Jade empire, neverwinter nights, The Witcher and even Fallout 3 are all better rpgs, as overall games they might not be better, as rpgs they are.

[CroGamer002]

Shotokanguy wrote...

Who cares what that one site says?

This topic is just an excuse to start the "ME2 isn't an RPG why do people like it WAAAHHHH" crap again.

That.

[Nachituy]

A role-playing game (RPG) is a game, in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.



so yeah , ME2 is an rpg , a pure rpg , as you take control of a character and shape its personality and decicions the way you want it

[Roseking]

I don't get some people. How is ME2 not a role playing game? To me a role-playing game is a game with a engaging story and your choices effect that story. Would I say a game like Call of duty is a role playing game? No. But saying ME2 is not an RPG because it is different and more stream lined is ignorant. Do I love "traditional" RPGs? Hell ya, probably would not be playing games without them. Dragon Age (considered to be a throw back to "traditional" RPGs such as BG) is one of my favorite games of all time, because of it's story, not because I looted 50 billion crap items. I have Diablo for that.

Also saying "X" is better then "y" because it has better story and characters is opinion; the best part of games are having a choice what to play, don't like new RPGs because they are shallow and short? Play older games such as BG. It is not cost effective to make a 200 hour + game with todays cinematics and graphic engines.



To each there own.

[Kusy]

That list is a compleate joke.

I'm not saying that ME2 was a bad game or anything close to it - I enjoyed it very much. But please don't jump at me with those raddichio comments with RPG definitions in it. This is not friggin tabletop, not to mention that tabletop is a lot more complicated and complex with rules than vidya games. Nachituy, acording to your very much amusing post - The Sims would be a perfect representant of the RPG genre. And it is not.

Mass Effect 2 is defenetly not an RPG acording to what an averge fan of the genre expects and for christ's sake, just becaue BioWare makes a game it doesn't mean it has to be a RPG - and it's the case with this game, It has many aspects of it, but it's not a clean RPG - it's closer to a regular shooter gameplay wise. Just like Diablo 2 is not an RPG acording to such definition - it's a dumbforward hack'n'slash, what is it doing on that list anyways?

Mass Effect 2 is a great game. Great RPG? Not so much. I think it's about time people stop using those clasifications, there's too much from diffrent genres to clearly state what is and what is not something.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 10 février 2011 - 12:53 .

[DRSH]

Mass Effect 2, best RPG of the last 10 years? IDK, but it's the best Action-RPG I've ever played.