440 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaelducan]

Mesina2 wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

To be honest, as good as Mass Effect 2
is, it's kind of hard to know if it's the best RPG of it's decade,
since there are 8 more years left in it.

Hmh, you do realize 2011 is new decade while ME2( on PC and XBox 360) was released in 2009, previous decade?

January 2010, bro.

[Whatever42]

The Calendar starts on year 1, there is no year 0. So the first decade was year 1 to year 10. So the first decade of this new milenium (omg, its been a decade already) is 2001 to 2010.

[Fixers0]

I Don't get why everybody get's so angry.

I can understand that you don't agree with smudboy's analysis, but this guy is doing his best to make an honest analysis, he doesn't just make things up, He mentions several times that he doesn't need to have everything explained to him in every detail, but he does say that some things were poorly intergrated into the plot in terms of continuation.

It seems when people want to carfully make some critism about ME2 story they will immediately get pushed into a corner and accused of being biassed, nitpicking etc.

[Phaedon]

No, it's not honest, it's unprofessional. At some point, he dismisses ME2's story compared to other games. 

Plus, bias, bias everywhere. Things he doesn't understand 'Hurrt his braiiin' and stuff he doesn't agree with are poor writing.

Modifié par Phaedon, 10 février 2011 - 08:16 .

[AlanC9]

bjdbwea wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

There are plenty of people here who have played "real RPGs" and who like ME2 just fine.

RPG fans may like ME 2, but they can't call it the best RPG in ten years. That would be like saying that NWN was the best shooter in the last ten years. Or like seeing a cute cat and saying that it is the nicest dog that one has ever seen. It makes no sense. It might however be the nicest animal one has ever seen. Likewise, it's fine if people want to call ME 2 the best game in ten years. The best RPG however it can not be, that would be an insult to every good RPG that has been released throughout the years. So if someone insists on calling ME 2 the best RPG, they have either never played an actual RPG, which would render their opinion completely meaningless, or they seem to think that less RPG equals better RPG, which would be a valid opinion, but of course such a sentiment can not be the foundation for a discussion about which is the best real RPG.

Well, this post is at least worth talking about.

This depends on what makes something a "better RPG," or a "real RPG." I've been playing RPGs, pen and paper and computer both, since 1979 or thereabouts, and I don't see how ME2 lost anything that makes RPGs good, or makes a game an RPG. (I consider games that use a player's own reflexes rather than a character'sstats to be a subgenre of RPGs -- an action-RPG is still an RPG just like a Baptist is still a Christian.)

Sure, ME2 became less like D&D when inventory went away. I consider this a good thing for an RPG, because I don't think D&D is a very good RPG system. I've always regretted that CRPGs didn't descend from a better PnP system, like, say, Hero System.

There's nothing wrong with us disagreeing on what RPGs are and what they ought to be. But then neither one of us gets to declare that his personal answer to this is objectively correct.

[Ulzeraj]

kalle90 wrote...

It's lucky if it gets in my top 10...

Not
to mention that by that standard of RPG games like Borderlands and
Marvel Ultimate Alliance are very close to be countable too

Borderlands is a shooter with rpg elements. You got classes, skills and inventory. The rest just look like a cross between a shooter and Diablo.

Is fun and humorous as hell... but its too hack'n'slash to be on this list. Talking about story and all that.

Phaelducan wrote...

lol @ smudboy

Anyways... I'd like to just address something which irritates me about DnD comparisons (and the games they are based on).

I like table-top gaming... but lets be honest... DnD was NOT a deep system for character customization. Other than a very narrow set of criteria for what you wanted to be at character creation... you got very little in the way of customization as you leveled up. Leveling in DnD was a matter of getting hit points.... and occasionally assigning a proficiency. Same in Torment or Baldur's Gate. Great... I just went to level 5 as a fighter... and I get 3 hitpoints? Wtf? 3 Hitpoints? That's it?

Be fair.... in ME2 you get something every level... and it's something that YOU choose where to allocate.

Damn that takes back to the times I had to calculate the THAC0 for my characters. AD&D had this weird idea that you only received a fixed ammount of hit points past lvl 12 or something depending on class.

Aside from using the prehistoric AD&D2e system Baldur's Gate 2 had a great story and characters. It really created the best immersion on the Forgotten Realms scenario (R.I.P. Mystra, Tyr, Helm and Eilistraee QQ).

The whole point in deciding what is a good rpg (computer or not) is how the story is presented. IMO (and add common sense here) Its not some dumb inventory that makes a great computer rpg. If you had fun while playing, enjoyed the story and felt you had control over the character decisions... then its a good RPG.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 10 février 2011 - 08:34 .

[CroGamer002]

Phaelducan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

To be honest, as good as Mass Effect 2
is, it's kind of hard to know if it's the best RPG of it's decade,
since there are 8 more years left in it.

Hmh, you do realize 2011 is new decade while ME2( on PC and XBox 360) was released in 2009, previous decade?

January 2010, bro.

My bad( I got both ME1&2 in around April 2010).

Modifié par Mesina2, 10 février 2011 - 08:29 .

[Whatever42]

Fixers0 wrote...
It seems when people want to carfully make some critism about ME2 story they will immediately get pushed into a corner and accused of being biassed, nitpicking etc.

Not true! There is plenty of well-thought out, well presented criticism on these boards that don't get flamed. However, some people do nitpick and make sweeping statements based on elements most people find trivial or just simply make completely incorrect assertions.

Someone can start a thread saying they liked the ME1 inventory system and disliked the ME2 locker system. Someone will reply with the opposite opinion. Debate occurs. Neither side recognize the values or arguments of the other side so argument circles the drain until people tire out.

Sometimes everyone agrees: we all want more party banter.

In the case of this thread, someone linked to blog where the blogger loved ME2 as his decades top RPG, and then poster flamed him. Other haters joined in, asserting ME2's general crappiness or that it was a sell-out and could not be regarded as an RPG.

When naturally challenged by fans of the game, one of them linked to a bad, poorly thought out critique of the game. The fans debunk the bad critique and move on.  No flaming. We belittled the critique not because it was a critique but because it was a bad critique.

As far as Smudboy... I didn't mind his critiques, I minded him because any challenge to his logic was met with insults and then by him ignoring you.

[Phaelducan]

Actually I thought the best increase for 3.0 and NWN was the crit ranges and multipliers on different weapons. I always liked 1st and 2nd editions as well.... for what they were... but the systems were incredibly limited. 3e was better, absolutely, but there are very few CRPG games that use that system (KotoR, NWN). For the record.... KotoR is my favorite Bioware RPG by far, and the system has a lot to do with it, although not as much as the setting.



I only bring them up as a lot of posters unfairly critique ME2 and it's "lack of customization" based on the glory years of CRPG games that had buck all for options.



I did play a Fighter in Baldur's gate, but you got to level your party as well... and you just don't get to choose much. Even the spells are drops from the game, vs. ealy TES games where you can pretty much make any spell you want.



I think the real point is that variety is the spice of life, even in gaming, and if every RPG was like Torment... the genre would suck.

[Whatever42]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, this post is at least worth talking about.

This depends on what makes something a "better RPG," or a "real RPG." I've been playing RPGs, pen and paper and computer both, since 1979 or thereabouts, and I don't see how ME2 lost anything that makes RPGs good, or makes a game an RPG. (I consider games that use a player's own reflexes rather than a character'sstats to be a subgenre of RPGs -- an action-RPG is still an RPG just like a Baptist is still a Christian.)

Sure, ME2 became less like D&D when inventory went away. I consider this a good thing for an RPG, because I don't think D&D is a very good RPG system. I've always regretted that CRPGs didn't descend from a better PnP system, like, say, Hero System.

There's nothing wrong with us disagreeing on what RPGs are and what they ought to be. But then neither one of us gets to declare that his personal answer to this is objectively correct.

Very well said. Less RPG snobbery please.

[Ulzeraj]

Phaelducan wrote...

Actually I thought the best increase for 3.0 and NWN was the crit ranges and multipliers on different weapons. I always liked 1st and 2nd editions as well.... for what they were... but the systems were incredibly limited. 3e was better, absolutely, but there are very few CRPG games that use that system (KotoR, NWN). For the record.... KotoR is my favorite Bioware RPG by far, and the system has a lot to do with it, although not as much as the setting.

I only bring them up as a lot of posters unfairly critique ME2 and it's "lack of customization" based on the glory years of CRPG games that had buck all for options.

I did play a Fighter in Baldur's gate, but you got to level your party as well... and you just don't get to choose much. Even the spells are drops from the game, vs. ealy TES games where you can pretty much make any spell you want.

I think the real point is that variety is the spice of life, even in gaming, and if every RPG was like Torment... the genre would suck.

I am really liking 4e so far on my pen-and-paper games. I am the DM but I can see the ammount of work my players invest on their characters to do the perfect build, the perfect combination of powers... all that leaving into consideration other powers and skills the other players have.

Never seen that on DnD before. Everyone just tried to do the perfect bad mutha solo character that could survive everything without help. Fighters could stand damage forever because of their large hp pools and also had the best base attack of all classes. Mages were... how can I describe... they would the one class that could solo a reaper. Clerics were like mages with plate armor. Rogues were just trap disarmers and party faces.

It seems NWN2 backported some 4e concepts such as the Warlock class (its at-will spells like eldritch blast). I really hope a computer RPG game based on 4e comes out soon.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 10 février 2011 - 08:44 .

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

No, it's not honest, it's unprofessional. At some point, he dismisses ME2's story compared to other games. 

Plus, bias, bias everywhere. Things he doesn't understand 'Hurrt his braiiin' and stuff he doesn't agree with are poor writing.

You're also biasing here, you were thinking when reading the text that this is another attempt to bring Mass effect 2 plot down, but it isn't a review, it's an analysis, he points out good things and says the majority of the game is awesome, but he said that he would focus more on the bad things, which is just occupies a small part of the story, he isn't biased or anything he is just making an analysis with attention to the bad things.

I don't agree with everything he says, but 80% of his analysis sounds very reasonable to me, Such as
1.The part from'' the main plot'' to ''no good reason'' in  which he explains what happend to Mass effect.
2. The whole opening scene, and what follows doesn't make much sense from a trilogy perspective.
3.The Collectors in general and how the were almost retconned into the story.
4.The Collectors plan wasn't explained to us and thus didn't made much sense.
5. The wrapping up part.

Modifié par Fixers0, 10 février 2011 - 10:12 .

[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

There are plenty of people here who have played "real RPGs" and who like ME2 just fine.

RPG fans may like ME 2, but they can't call it the best RPG in ten years. That would be like saying that NWN was the best shooter in the last ten years. Or like seeing a cute cat and saying that it is the nicest dog that one has ever seen. It makes no sense. It might however be the nicest animal one has ever seen. Likewise, it's fine if people want to call ME 2 the best game in ten years. The best RPG however it can not be, that would be an insult to every good RPG that has been released throughout the years. So if someone insists on calling ME 2 the best RPG, they have either never played an actual RPG, which would render their opinion completely meaningless, or they seem to think that less RPG equals better RPG, which would be a valid opinion, but of course such a sentiment can not be the foundation for a discussion about which is the best real RPG.

Well, this post is at least worth talking about.

This depends on what makes something a "better RPG," or a "real RPG." I've been playing RPGs, pen and paper and computer both, since 1979 or thereabouts, and I don't see how ME2 lost anything that makes RPGs good, or makes a game an RPG. (I consider games that use a player's own reflexes rather than a character'sstats to be a subgenre of RPGs -- an action-RPG is still an RPG just like a Baptist is still a Christian.)

Sure, ME2 became less like D&D when inventory went away. I consider this a good thing for an RPG, because I don't think D&D is a very good RPG system. I've always regretted that CRPGs didn't descend from a better PnP system, like, say, Hero System.

There's nothing wrong with us disagreeing on what RPGs are and what they ought to be. But then neither one of us gets to declare that his personal answer to this is objectively correct.

I strongly disagree.

An RPG is about taking on the Role fo the Character and all of his skills and abilities.  Which requires that your personal skill is irrelevant,  your character's skill is relevant.  My "To hit" is determined,  not by my ability to punch my DM,  but by a reflection of my character's skill with his weapon as a die roll.

Mass Effect 2 disregards this.  Your Character's skill is irrelevant,  your "To hit" is determined solely by your ability to punch the DM so to speak.  This makes the representation on screen not a Role,  but an Avatar for the Player.  Which is a defining characteristic of a shooter.

This is further highlighted by the fact that Paragon/Villian decisions are factors of pure skill in pressing a sudden random button,  not by any representation of your character's personality.  "Press a button to do the right thing!". 

ME2 is not by any means an RPG,  it is all about your personal skill,  not about the Role you take on.  A little bit of dialogue doesn't change this,  especially since most of it is irrelevant,  as I'll touch on in a moment.

No, it's not honest, it's unprofessional. At some point, he dismisses ME2's story compared to other games. 

Plus, bias, bias everywhere. Things he doesn't understand 'Hurrt his braiiin' and stuff he doesn't agree with are poor writing.

Actually,  ME2's writing largely needs dismissed in comparison to just about anything...

I'm given a mission to go to the wreckage of the Fleet's premiere ship,  staffed by some of the most skilled members of the fleet to find missing crewmen.  I get there and proceed to discover...that some of the crewmen who were highly trained and skilled decided the best thing to do during a evacuation was to climb inside a random box.  Then,  the highly trained and skilled recovery team sent to locate missing crew members before me apparently could not figure out how to open said boxes and look inside for crew members whose IQ's apparently dropped to the level of a household pet in an emergency.

I'm wandering around a lawless quarantine zone,  looting every apartment I can.  I enter one,  find the owners still there,  tell them where to go for safety...and then I loot it...in front of them...without a word of protest.  A few apartments later,  I find looters stripping an apartment bare...where I proceed to lecture them about the evils of looting...after I'd been looting...in front of the apartments owners.

The writing has no consistency or logic.  My actions are irrelevant,  with no bearing on future interactions,  and often just outright doesn't make sense.  So yes,  the story does largely need dismissed.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Best RPG of the decade?  Nevermind that it isn't even an RPG,  it's characterized by myriad problems.  Bad writing,  90's era AI,  complete lack of character customization or development,  it's a trainwreck.

To be honest,  it's a poster-boy for how far the gaming media has fallen.  A decade ago it would've gotten panned by every review that came within 10 feet of it,  because it made every error that reviewers panned during that time.  Today?  "It's a 9.0!" 

It's a sad,  sad,  day for gaming when this was considered either quality or an award winner.  It goes to show our expectations for quality are pretty much "Oooohhh Shiny!",  and we don't even expect internally consistent writing,  nor apparently do we expect our RPG's to have RPG elements.  Apparently,  all you need to do is put the letters on the box and you'll win the award for "Greatest RPG ever!" even if what you released was actually a really bad shooter.

[Whatever42]

Gatt9 wrote...

Actually,  ME2's writing largely needs dismissed in comparison to just about anything...

I'm given a mission to go to the wreckage of the Fleet's premiere ship,  staffed by some of the most skilled members of the fleet to find missing crewmen.  I get there and proceed to discover...that some of the crewmen who were highly trained and skilled decided the best thing to do during a evacuation was to climb inside a random box.  Then,  the highly trained and skilled recovery team sent to locate missing crew members before me apparently could not figure out how to open said boxes and look inside for crew members whose IQ's apparently dropped to the level of a household pet in an emergency.

I'm wandering around a lawless quarantine zone,  looting every apartment I can.  I enter one,  find the owners still there,  tell them where to go for safety...and then I loot it...in front of them...without a word of protest.  A few apartments later,  I find looters stripping an apartment bare...where I proceed to lecture them about the evils of looting...after I'd been looting...in front of the apartments owners.

The writing has no consistency or logic.  My actions are irrelevant,  with no bearing on future interactions,  and often just outright doesn't make sense.  So yes,  the story does largely need dismissed.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Best RPG of the decade?  Nevermind that it isn't even an RPG,  it's characterized by myriad problems.  Bad writing,  90's era AI,  complete lack of character customization or development,  it's a trainwreck.

To be honest,  it's a poster-boy for how far the gaming media has fallen.  A decade ago it would've gotten panned by every review that came within 10 feet of it,  because it made every error that reviewers panned during that time.  Today?  "It's a 9.0!" 

It's a sad,  sad,  day for gaming when this was considered either quality or an award winner.  It goes to show our expectations for quality are pretty much "Oooohhh Shiny!",  and we don't even expect internally consistent writing,  nor apparently do we expect our RPG's to have RPG elements.  Apparently,  all you need to do is put the letters on the box and you'll win the award for "Greatest RPG ever!" even if what you released was actually a really bad shooter.

If I didn't think you were serious, I would say that was a brilliant satire of the guy who wrote that web review. Hey, I respect your right to focus on what 99% of people would regard as absolutely trivial detail, also inherent to many other great games, and declare almost all of humanity a failure for liking it.  You make many other unsubstantiated accusations. I'd ask you to justify them but you'd probably say that the story was inconsistant because you hated the paint color in one of the hallways.

But I won't bring any of that up.

All I'll say is that it must really burn you and some of the others that ME2 has won more GOTY awards than any other game in history, including pretty much every RPG game of  the year award. It must be hard to think the rest of the world is insane.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 10 février 2011 - 11:02 .

[Iwillbeback]

Mesina2 wrote...

Phaelducan wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

To be honest, as good as Mass Effect 2
is, it's kind of hard to know if it's the best RPG of it's decade,
since there are 8 more years left in it.

Hmh, you do realize 2011 is new decade while ME2( on PC and XBox 360) was released in 2009, previous decade?

January 2010, bro.

My bad( I got both ME1&2 in around April 2010).

I don't agree with this but anyway.
Technically the decade didn't start until 1st of January 2011.

[Jade Elf]

This discussion again...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

You know, all the other "AWESOME" RPGs you mentioned still made the list. Maybe ME2 won because the author liked it the most?

Or maybe a genre shouldn't be defined by mechanics alone.

MAYBE.

Aigyl wrote...

The definition of RPG is so subjective it
can mean nearly anything. Heck you could argue Super Mario is a RPG if
you roleplay Mario as a drug addict who just can't stop eating mushrooms
and mass murders goombas in his spare time.

I'm still laughing!


Seriously though, I haven't actually played enough RPGs in the past decade to really judge for myself. Basically it ends up as a "these are my favourites..." list anyway, so...

Modifié par Jade Elf, 10 février 2011 - 11:06 .

[Da_Lion_Man]

ApolloCloud wrote...

What would people list as their ten best out of curiosity?

Mine would be:

1. Xenosaga Episode III
2. Xenosaga Episode I
3. Chrono Cross
4. Vagrant Story
5. Baten Kaitos
6. Baten Kaitos Origins
7. Xenosaga Episode II
8. Final Fantasy X
9. Soma Bringer
10. Shadow Hearts: Covenant

Honourable Mentions: Mother 3, Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 2, Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3, Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria, Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy XII, Final Fantasy XIII

Does 2000 count in the decade? I guess it does?

I played many nice RPGs the past decade, this would probably be my top 10 for this decade.

1. Planescape: Torment (this game came out in 2000 for Europe I believe)
2. Demon's Souls
3. Deus Ex (1)
4. Morrowind
5. Xenoblade (Japanese import)
6. Fallout: New Vegas
7. Persona 3
8. Etrian Odyssey III
9. KOTOR
10. Final Fantasy IX

It's probably something like that. I'm a bit surprised by the combination of JRPGs and WRPGs. Yeah, I play both genres, 2 different worlds. =3
I know there is no Mass Effect in my list but believe me I still like the series a lot. Mass Effect 1 is probably 11-ish. ME2 is nice too but I like ME1 better.

Of course this is just my opinion.

[Zeus_Deus]

Mesina2 wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

To be honest, as good as Mass Effect 2
is, it's kind of hard to know if it's the best RPG of it's decade,
since there are 8 more years left in it.

Hmh, you do realize 2011 is new decade while ME2( on PC and XBox 360) was released in 2009, previous decade?

 Last decade was 00 - 09.

New decade is 2010-2019.

P.S. ME2 was released in 2010, not 2009.

[Zeus_Deus]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The Calendar starts on year 1, there is no year 0. So the first decade was year 1 to year 10. So the first decade of this new milenium (omg, its been a decade already) is 2001 to 2010.

No.

The new millenium started on 2000, not 2001.

Thus the last decade started on 2000, and finished at the end of '09.

And since Mass Effect 2 was released in 2010, that puts it in the new decade.

[Zeus_Deus]

Double post

Modifié par Zeus_Deus, 11 février 2011 - 12:42 .

[Angmir]

lol no new millenium strted on the first january of 2001, so therafter decade ended on 31 of december 2010. But this is minor thing.



What is more important i'd like to reffer to the main part of this Thread, ie. ME2 beeing the best RPG of the past decade.



In my opinion ME2 is hardly even RPG, I'd call it action-adventure game. So titling ME 2 the best RPG of the past decade is somewhat confusing.

It doesnt really change the fakt that ME2 was an awesome game, defietly one of the best EVER released. I cant with full responibility say that it is the Best game of all times, as it is dificult to compere difrent genres, and I played but a few titles on my own (compared to the overal number).

I can say however that ME2 was the game that made me enjoy the games anew, and was the one game I felt most appealing to my emotions.



It moved me the most of all conventional games I ever played, I can say it was the best gaming experience in my life !

[Whatever42]

Zeus_Deus wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The Calendar starts on year 1, there is no year 0. So the first decade was year 1 to year 10. So the first decade of this new milenium (omg, its been a decade already) is 2001 to 2010.

No.

The new millenium started on 2000, not 2001.

Thus the last decade started on 2000, and finished at the end of '09.

And since Mass Effect 2 was released in 2010, that puts it in the new decade.

Nope. Calendar starts at year 1. Now face the power of the google (ok, I won't spam you in links).

http://wiki.answers....illennium_start
http://www.astronomy...com/millennium/

Although, Wikipedia does describe the two different ways that people define it:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Millennium

So if you want to define your decades, centuries and mileniums by the fact that there is a 0 or a 1 in the tens, hundreds, or thousands digit, you can.

However, since the calendar started at year 1, that means your first decade only had 9 years.

I prefer to actually count my decades, centuries, and milinium by how many years have passed. Tomato Tamato. But if the guy wants to (correctly) define his decade from 2001-2010 (which is correct), its legit (and correct).

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 11 février 2011 - 01:04 .

[MJRick]

Gatt9 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

There are plenty of people here who have played "real RPGs" and who like ME2 just fine.

RPG fans may like ME 2, but they can't call it the best RPG in ten years. That would be like saying that NWN was the best shooter in the last ten years. Or like seeing a cute cat and saying that it is the nicest dog that one has ever seen. It makes no sense. It might however be the nicest animal one has ever seen. Likewise, it's fine if people want to call ME 2 the best game in ten years. The best RPG however it can not be, that would be an insult to every good RPG that has been released throughout the years. So if someone insists on calling ME 2 the best RPG, they have either never played an actual RPG, which would render their opinion completely meaningless, or they seem to think that less RPG equals better RPG, which would be a valid opinion, but of course such a sentiment can not be the foundation for a discussion about which is the best real RPG.

Well, this post is at least worth talking about.

This depends on what makes something a "better RPG," or a "real RPG." I've been playing RPGs, pen and paper and computer both, since 1979 or thereabouts, and I don't see how ME2 lost anything that makes RPGs good, or makes a game an RPG. (I consider games that use a player's own reflexes rather than a character'sstats to be a subgenre of RPGs -- an action-RPG is still an RPG just like a Baptist is still a Christian.)

Sure, ME2 became less like D&D when inventory went away. I consider this a good thing for an RPG, because I don't think D&D is a very good RPG system. I've always regretted that CRPGs didn't descend from a better PnP system, like, say, Hero System.

There's nothing wrong with us disagreeing on what RPGs are and what they ought to be. But then neither one of us gets to declare that his personal answer to this is objectively correct.

I strongly disagree.

An RPG is about taking on the Role fo the Character and all of his skills and abilities.  Which requires that your personal skill is irrelevant,  your character's skill is relevant.  My "To hit" is determined,  not by my ability to punch my DM,  but by a reflection of my character's skill with his weapon as a die roll.

Mass Effect 2 disregards this.  Your Character's skill is irrelevant,  your "To hit" is determined solely by your ability to punch the DM so to speak.  This makes the representation on screen not a Role,  but an Avatar for the Player.  Which is a defining characteristic of a shooter.

This is further highlighted by the fact that Paragon/Villian decisions are factors of pure skill in pressing a sudden random button,  not by any representation of your character's personality.  "Press a button to do the right thing!". 

ME2 is not by any means an RPG,  it is all about your personal skill,  not about the Role you take on.  A little bit of dialogue doesn't change this,  especially since most of it is irrelevant,  as I'll touch on in a moment.

No, it's not honest, it's unprofessional. At some point, he dismisses ME2's story compared to other games. 

Plus, bias, bias everywhere. Things he doesn't understand 'Hurrt his braiiin' and stuff he doesn't agree with are poor writing.

Actually,  ME2's writing largely needs dismissed in comparison to just about anything...

I'm given a mission to go to the wreckage of the Fleet's premiere ship,  staffed by some of the most skilled members of the fleet to find missing crewmen.  I get there and proceed to discover...that some of the crewmen who were highly trained and skilled decided the best thing to do during a evacuation was to climb inside a random box.  Then,  the highly trained and skilled recovery team sent to locate missing crew members before me apparently could not figure out how to open said boxes and look inside for crew members whose IQ's apparently dropped to the level of a household pet in an emergency.

I'm wandering around a lawless quarantine zone,  looting every apartment I can.  I enter one,  find the owners still there,  tell them where to go for safety...and then I loot it...in front of them...without a word of protest.  A few apartments later,  I find looters stripping an apartment bare...where I proceed to lecture them about the evils of looting...after I'd been looting...in front of the apartments owners.

The writing has no consistency or logic.  My actions are irrelevant,  with no bearing on future interactions,  and often just outright doesn't make sense.  So yes,  the story does largely need dismissed.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Best RPG of the decade?  Nevermind that it isn't even an RPG,  it's characterized by myriad problems.  Bad writing,  90's era AI,  complete lack of character customization or development,  it's a trainwreck.

To be honest,  it's a poster-boy for how far the gaming media has fallen.  A decade ago it would've gotten panned by every review that came within 10 feet of it,  because it made every error that reviewers panned during that time.  Today?  "It's a 9.0!" 

It's a sad,  sad,  day for gaming when this was considered either quality or an award winner.  It goes to show our expectations for quality are pretty much "Oooohhh Shiny!",  and we don't even expect internally consistent writing,  nor apparently do we expect our RPG's to have RPG elements.  Apparently,  all you need to do is put the letters on the box and you'll win the award for "Greatest RPG ever!" even if what you released was actually a really bad shooter.

Listen to this man his opinion is law!

[MJRick]

Seival wrote...


I think there will be one more soon enough: Star Wars: The Old Republic (wich will be the first true MMORPG).

sorry had to.

[Chaos Gate]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
All I'll say is that it must really burn you and some of the others that ME2 has won more GOTY awards than any other game in history, including pretty much every RPG game of  the year award. It must be hard to think the rest of the world is insane.

Considering that games journalism has not held a shred of credibility since, oh, 2002 or so, then no, it doesn't burn me at all.

ME2 was a very poor offering, and it's clear as punch.