998 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Does this thread really have to descend into a really negative Clint Mansell Vs. Jack Wall fight? I think it's best if we just focus on the positives of the situation.

I see nothing postive about this.

Good for you. But I'm just curious.... what would you have Bioware do if the Jack Wall and Co. wanted to move onto something else?

PS: Didn't I kill you in that stasis chamber?

You killed my clone, I am much deeper and you will never find me

Anyways if you have problems to get someone back, you work harder. It's called buisnes, I have seen this happen before in video games and moives. SOmeone or a team did not want to return but did for either fans or they got a good deal.

[AdmiralCheez]

James_975 wrote...

What is it, in your mind, that makes me a hipster? The fact that I don't like ME2 as much as I like ME1? Or is it the fact that I'm familar with Clint Mansell? Seriously, I've simply never understood the term or how you classify it.

There's nothing wrong with being familiar with Clint Mansell.  However, I am somewhat annoyed by the fact that people these days label everything they don't like as "generic" or "mainstream" to try to make themselves sound cool.  Why can't you say, "I didn't like ME2 that much because it didn't seem quite as fresh and unique as ME1?"  Much less combative, and people will be more likely to agree with you.

Instead of, you know, "ZOMG ME2 HAD ORCHESTRAL MUSIC AND ROUGHER COMBAT IT IS SO MAINSTREAM AND NOT WORTH PLAYING BAAWWWW!!!11!"

Mass Effect 2, was, by majority accounts, a much more generic game, as was it's soundtrack. That's fact. The entire experience felt very streamlined when compared to ME1.

As yes, "facts."  Do you happen to know Elite Midget?

Frankly, I found the premise behind the game--especially the way so many variables could affect the final outcome--to be pretty damn sweet (albeit implemented poorly in some cases).  And I'm glad they got rid of the piddly stuff, though I wish they would have tried to improve it instead of just cutting it.  Hopefully, ME3 will get it right.

As for the music, most of it, like ME1's soundtrack, was just meh, but a few tracks really stood out.  The metallic pounding of the Collector theme, the thunder of the Suicide Mission--that stuff stands out.

Oh yeah, and this.

Anyyyyyway, the point is, Mansell has been hired and even if you question the decision now, I have full confidence he's going to erase those doubts when the game is released. He's going to own this.

Like I said, I'm cool with this.  I like Mansell, and I'm sure he'll do a good job.

[Silmane]

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

OK, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Jack Wall's decision to leave?

He said it was complicated and wouldn't discuss it right now. His post is..somewhere in here. quite a few people reposted it, too.

[CroGamer002]

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Does this thread really have to descend into a really negative Clint Mansell Vs. Jack Wall fight? I think it's best if we just focus on the positives of the situation.

I see nothing postive about this.

Good for you. But I'm just curious.... what would you have Bioware do if the Jack Wall and Co. wanted to move onto something else?

PS: Didn't I kill you in that stasis chamber?

I let him to take over New Vegas.

[cambailey]

News like this just makes me worried and unhappy. I'll just try not to think about ME3 until we get some teasers with the new music.



Don't really have my hopes up for it to be good though.

[Therefore_I_Am]

cambailey wrote...

News like this just makes me worried and unhappy. I'll just try not to think about ME3 until we get some teasers with the new music.

Don't really have my hopes up for it to be good though.

Here's a song dedicated to all you silly people out there. You can sing along if you like!


Here is a little song I wrote
You might want to sing it note for note
Don't worry be happy
In every life we have some trouble
When you worry you make it double
Don't worry, be happy......

Ain't got no place to lay your head
Somebody came and took your bed
Don't worry, be happy
The land lord say your rent is late
He may have to litigate
Don't worry, be happy
Look at me I am happy
Don't worry, be happy
Here I give you my phone number
When you worry call me
I make you happy
Don't worry, be happy
Ain't got no cash, ain't got no style
Ain't got not girl to make you smile
But don't worry be happy
Cause when you worry
Your face will frown
And that will bring everybody down
So don't worry, be happy (now).....

There is this little song I wrote
I hope you learn it note for note
Like good little children
Don't worry, be happy
Listen to what I say
In your life expect some trouble
But when you worry
You make it double
Don't worry, be happy......
Don't worry don't do it, be happy
Put a smile on your face
Don't bring everybody down like this
Don't worry, it will soon past
Whatever it is
Don't worry, be happy

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 10 février 2011 - 11:26 .

[phimseto]

AwesomeName wrote...

phimseto wrote...
/snip

I take it you despised the work for ME that wasn't done by Jack Wall?

There's zero reason to think Clint Mansell will make his own job harder by ignoring 2 games worth of music.  As has been mentioned before, Mansell has proven that he's experienced across a wide range of genres; can respect and seamlessly add his own style to a pre-existing body of work; and can do utterly breath-taking scores for films which are on indie budgets.  Not only do I think he'll respect the original music, I'll think he'll add a great deal to it and even top what's been done so far, provided the story facilitates that.  Given that Wall of Sound decided not to come back*, I think most people ought to be, and indeed are, relieved that of all the composers out there, they picked this guy.

*I highly doubt they were "kicked off," given the success of their work for ME2.

Yeah, I'm sorry - the "decided not to come back" is Lie #1 of the entertainment industry.  It's the polite face on an impolite behind the scenes story we're not meant to hear about.  Wall's post earlier, too, is part of that hustle, too.  He references still having a great relationship with Bioware?  Guess what?  Bet you anything his "play nice" post was all about just that - not burning bridges, probably an agreed-upon part of the deal.

Look, again, I have *nothing* against Mansell.  NOTHING.  I discovered him because the music for the Two Towers trailer led me to Requiem for a Dream.  So I get the dude's talent, appeal, and mutability.  Good for him.  But nothing about his talent or coming on board makes me feel good about this very, very poor creative decision.  *EVERYTHING* should have been done to make sure Wall and crew scored ME3.  The fact that it wasn't, and we really don't know to what degree why this was, leaves me with a terrible lack of faith in Bioware's ME3 decision-making processes.

I would hope he doesn't ignore the previous films' work, but it doesn't matter.  Referencing the themes isn't the same as being informed by them.  There was a narrative in the music that came about because of the continuity and particular talents of Wall.  It doesn't matter how often you reference the theme or not.  The vast majority of the score will be atonal to the previous games, and that is a bad thing.  I don't care how good the ME3 score is.  Richard Wagner could rise from the grave and compose the most amazing score of all-time, but you know what?  I'm playing Mass Effect 3.  I want to hear music that makes sense to where I've been.  To invoke Wagner again, it would be like hearing the first three parts of the Ring Cycle, and then they switched in Georges Bizet for the final part.  Bizet is great, but he's not Wagner.  Mansell is great, but he's not Wall and the Mass Effect trilogy isn't really the Mass Effect trilogy anymore.  It's a Bioware (published by EA) product, with heavy emphasis on the word "product."

[Capeo]

Mesina2 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Mansell is far from mainstream in his choices.  On the other hand the ME soundtracks are as generic as you can get.  I really don't get how all you folks are so high on this guy Wall.  I've been listening to particular songs on youtube and I don't even remember hearing them in the game.  There just typical, meh.  Mansell on the other hand is amazing and brings power and mood and emotion to his work.  How anyone can compare the two is beyond me.  This should be stunningly awesome news for everybody.

And PS, you don't hire Clint Mansell to write "filler stuff". 

Seriously?!
Suicide Mission?!
Vigil?!
Romance theme from both MEs?!
Tali OST?!
Overlord?!
LotSB?!
Illusive Man theme?!
Specter Induction?!
From the wreckage?!
Victory?!
ME1 theme?!

Quite serious.  I've listened to Vigil, Suicide Mission, Tali and Victory and none of them come close to even touching the power and emotion of, say, Death is the Road to Awe.  I'm sorry, Mansell's work is on a whole different level.

[James_975]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

James_975 wrote...

What is it, in your mind, that makes me a hipster? The fact that I don't like ME2 as much as I like ME1? Or is it the fact that I'm familar with Clint Mansell? Seriously, I've simply never understood the term or how you classify it.

There's nothing wrong with being familiar with Clint Mansell.  However, I am somewhat annoyed by the fact that people these days label everything they don't like as "generic" or "mainstream" to try to make themselves sound cool.  Why can't you say, "I didn't like ME2 that much because it didn't seem quite as fresh and unique as ME1?"  Much less combative, and people will be more likely to agree with you.

Instead of, you know, "ZOMG ME2 HAD ORCHESTRAL MUSIC AND ROUGHER COMBAT IT IS SO MAINSTREAM AND NOT WORTH PLAYING BAAWWWW!!!11!"

Mass Effect 2, was, by majority accounts, a much more generic game, as was it's soundtrack. That's fact. The entire experience felt very streamlined when compared to ME1.

As yes, "facts."  Do you happen to know Elite Midget?

Frankly, I found the premise behind the game--especially the way so many variables could affect the final outcome--to be pretty damn sweet (albeit implemented poorly in some cases).  And I'm glad they got rid of the piddly stuff, though I wish they would have tried to improve it instead of just cutting it.  Hopefully, ME3 will get it right.

As for the music, most of it, like ME1's soundtrack, was just meh, but a few tracks really stood out.  The metallic pounding of the Collector theme, the thunder of the Suicide Mission--that stuff stands out.

Oh yeah, and this.

Anyyyyyway, the point is, Mansell has been hired and even if you question the decision now, I have full confidence he's going to erase those doubts when the game is released. He's going to own this.

Like I said, I'm cool with this.  I like Mansell, and I'm sure he'll do a good job.

I totally agree with everything you said,  but I never in any of my posts told people to stop playing ME2, or stated it was not worth playing, I simply stated my opinions on the game and it's soundtrack.

[AdmiralCheez]

James_975 wrote...

I totally agree with everything you said,  but I never in any of my posts told people to stop playing ME2, or stated it was not worth playing, I simply stated my opinions on the game and it's soundtrack.

Those little modifiers like "I think" and "I feel" make all the difference.

And yeah, sorry for the all-caps straw man.

[Silmane]

Capeo wrote...
snip

Serious question. Did you play Mass Effect 1? 

[Amyntas]

I didn't read the whole thread, but if anything did not need improvement it was ME's soundtrack. It was near perfect imo. I still listen to it from time to time outside of the game. I don't really care about Mansell's "pedigree". He may very well be a great composer, but I don't want ME3's soundtrack to have a different style. 

Modifié par Amyntas, 10 février 2011 - 11:48 .

[Obvakhi]

I hope Clint gives it that Ambient vibe like he did with Requiem. www.youtube.com/watch
ME3 needs to have some tragic scenes.

Modifié par Obvakhi, 11 février 2011 - 12:11 .

[phimseto]

AwesomeName wrote...

A lot of what you're saying is just supposition and hyperbole.  What proof do you have to back any of this up?  Have you heard much of Clint Mansell's work beyond Lux Aeterna?  Do you know what his range is, from his days from Pop Will Eat Itself, to Pi, to The Fountain, to Moon, to Black Swan?  Are you aware of the work he did with Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake for Black Swan?  Furthermore, given that you haven't even heard the score for ME3, how can you make any judgement on Mansell's approach to ME's existing themes?

You're right, a lot of what I said about this parting of ways is supposition, but informed by my experience and observation.  And that experience is telling me that this thing stinks.  And yes, I know Mansell's work: his Aronofsky work, Moon, etc.  Good stuff.  But again, his talent or how he came onto the project have nothing to do with my fundamental complaint.  My argument is that removing the series' composers for the final game is a very, very poor creative decision.  Mansell is talented and I don't know what he will do with old themes or new works for ME3, but what I do know is that what he does will not be precisely what Wall and company would have done were they working on the game.  And that's my problem - the loss of narrative continuity in a critical part of the game.  It doesn't matter who you get to replace them, it's a poor creative decision for a series based on continuity of narrative and theme. 

Modifié par phimseto, 10 février 2011 - 11:58 .

[sinewav]

After reading page after page and soaking in the pros and cons of today's news I am not as worried about the new Composer and am more hopeful that Clint will deliver a great soundtrack. I remain torn and saddened however that Jack Wall is out of a gig and it's never good when someone's out of a job especially 2 chapters in.



I can only hope that the change was for the best and will say that for all its flaws and improvements I would make to ME3 the soundtrack was not one of them. I saw no need to change the composer and as long as this is one of several improvements then ok.



And thanks Jack for the music.

[Abstract]

 

I would love for something like the above to be the new theme of the Afterlife club^

Modifié par Abstract, 11 février 2011 - 12:05 .

[Voods07]

Just heard some compositions from Moon...



...all I have to say now is: forget Jack wall and Sam Hulick!

[omgodzilla]

People treating Jack Wall like hes a god. Sure hes done great work but Clint has a superior resume.

[Haristo]

omgodzilla wrote...

People treating Jack Wall like hes a god. Sure hes done great work but Clint has a superior resume.

Depends... Clint is awesome but will he make the job to fit with the Jack's compositions ?!? Lets hope so.

And as I already said, I'm happy of the change : new persons, new ideas, refresh is always somehow positive. <3

[phimseto]

Supposition being informed by experience and observation hardly justifies it.  You can't be sure that this thing will stink, because of an entirely seperate event that you've experienced in the past.  Would you hate all purple people because of one bad experience with a purple person?  That would be stupid.  And for all you know, it could actually have been Jack Wall* who decided not to come back, not EA, as you're assuming.  And Mansell working on this is not a guarantee of loss of narrative continuity - again, another blind assumption you're making.

*And his team.  Given that more than one person has been scoring this thing, I don't see how it can possibly be bad to add another to the list, especially when it's Mansell.

I find my supposition no more disagreeable than buying what we're told as dogmatic truth.  Nor did I say it would stink.  And again that's smoke and mirrors to what I have been saying.   And yes, I know Wall had a team, but I'm not going to keep specifying that and you're beginning to sound like that scene in "Life of Brian" where one guy is reading the rules and Eric Idle keeps interjecting "...or her."   I have said from my original post:

1. Narrative continuity in music is as important as plot, character, and other creative contributions in the ME trilogy.

2. Replacing the composer for the first two games with another (no matter how talented) for the third is a poor creative decision because you lose that narrative continuity. 

And I can reasonably state it because Mansell is not Wall.  There's no getting around that.  Mansell will be informed by his own creative processes, and those are different from Wall's.  No matter the kind of job he does tying in the previous two games, it is like backwards compatibility more than Wall's original score representing an ongoing forward process. 

As great a job as Brandon Sanderson is doing finishing off The Wheel of Time, he is not Robert Jordan.  No matter how good a job he does, we will never have that full series of Jordan's vision that fans of the Wheel of Time would like to have had.  Musically, this is the same case.  Wall started something that he will not be able to finish, for whatever reason.  Mansell may do a fine job, but the trilogy is a lesser experience for Wall's (*cough* and his team's) absence. 

[HamsterExAstris]

I liked the ME1 soundtrack so much I bought it twice (first as a digital download, then I upgraded to a CD). Then I bought the ME2 soundtrack without having played the game.



But between the new composer and the loss of Drew Karpyshyn's pen, I'm really thinking that ME3 is going to continue the downward slide started by ME2.

[LagAdder]

omgodzilla wrote...

People treating Jack Wall like hes a god. Sure hes done great work but Clint has a superior resume.

Good thing to keep in mind, if he doesn't live up to the hype: "Woah, he sure screwed up big time on ME3 - but hey, at least he has a superior resume!"