244 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Oloos wrote...

In french, we, roleplayers, have a acronym for these "exagerations". It's "TGCM", for "Ta gueule ! C'est magique !". In English, it will be "Shut Up ! It's Magic !".

So, imagine these are magically altered swords to be lignter than they should, or in special lighters materials and you should be good.

Fantasy worlds are fantasty worlds, fields with magic, strange creatures, etc etc... You can imagine anything in them, that's the main interest in fact.

"Shut up, it's magic" is for those who don't like to work out their celebral cortex.
A finely crafted world works like a well-oiled machine. Everything has it's place.

Unnecessary explanations and things are avoided.

Lighter materials? We have iron. steel. Known materials. Or are they different in that world? If they are, why keep the same names?

And lastly, why use imparactical (shape/size) things?
"It's magic" doesn't work as an explanation there (unless you assume magic makes everyone stupid).

[Gabriel S.]

ALVIG824 wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Oloos wrote...

In french, we, roleplayers, have a acronym for these "exagerations". It's "TGCM", for "Ta gueule ! C'est magique !". In English, it will be "Shut Up ! It's Magic !".

So, imagine these are magically altered swords to be lignter than they should, or in special lighters materials and you should be good.

Fantasy worlds are fantasty worlds, fields with magic, strange creatures, etc etc... You can imagine anything in them, that's the main interest in fact.

Yeah, but the magically altered swords are specified. And none of those spcifics state something like 'magic makes this one lighter'. Or if it does state it was done to make it easier to handle in a fight, then it would simply be easier to handle; lighter and not bigger.

If it stated that magic made it light so it would be possible to make it bigger for the same weight as a regular one (to do higher damage or strike in a wider arc or whatnot), then obviously the only difference would be the size of the sword.

are we really arguing about magic?
you realize how dumb that is, yes?

No, I don't, because I'm not arguing about magic itself.

If magic wasn't applied then it's nothing magical about the object. Is it that hard to get into your skull? Okay, maybe that was uncalled for. Well actually it was, but I should have known better.

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 14 février 2011 - 03:16 .

[Jaduggar]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Jaduggar wrote...
 
Again, straw men and red herrings. Some bad logic.
You cannot constitute your attack on the gun as a logical refute against the sword in question.
 
---And yes, a gun is meant to launch projectiles. Consequentially, it’s also meant to not harm the user. Besides, there is no specific list “core” mechanics to a gun—just logical common properties. This argument is rather useless.---
 
I have never mentioned anything about super-light materials. I have no idea where you’re getting this from. In fact, I don’t quite understand your entire rebuttal in connection to my own—what about the exaggerated combat of Dragon Age 2? The backflips as a useful battle technique and DA2s factoring of weight—you do not attack these arguments and their conclusions. You’re only submitting a secondary argument that is exactly what my previous one only made an attempt to refute.

I can and I do. No bad logic. No red herrings.
The sword is alos meant not to harm the user..and if oyu get a herian or impale yourself on a redicolously hsaped crossguard, then it fails.

And B.t.w - I do not like DA2 over-the-top combat either.

...What does this have to do with anything I just argued? You didn't even attempt to justify how your statements weren't fallacious.

Why are you ignoring me?
Is it because I've put on weight?
(And skin's supposed to hang like that, you know! That's just nature!)

I'll keep this simple: Does the combat, or does it not, permit the dimensions of the sword in question? You don't even have to explain your answer. We can complete that process in different set of posts, if that's what you fancy.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Jaduggar wrote...
...What does this have to do with anything I just argued? You didn't even attempt to justify how your statements weren't fallacious.

Why are you ignoring me?
Is it because I've put on weight?
(And skin's supposed to hang like that, you know! That's just nature!)

I'll keep this simple: Does the combat, or does it not, permit the dimensions of the sword in question? You don't even have to explain your answer. We can complete that process in different set of posts, if that's what you fancy.

What do you mean by that?

It seems we have a communication faliure here. Why did I meantion not liking backflips and over-the-top combat? Because you claimed I'm not complaning about it, so I shouldn't complain about this.
Why should complain about combat animations in a thread dedicated to weapon scale?

And no, my statements weren't fallacious. If a design of a weapon is impractical and redicolous, then that design fails. And anyone with sufficient knowledge in the area knows what makes a design practical/functional. It's not a matter of oppinion, but simple physics and logic.
To somone who doesn't know or doesn't care, such obvious errors mean little.

But (for example) if you are watching a serious political thriller and then come to a scene where the main hacker protagonist shuts down the internet....
A layman who know little about internet will shrug and move on.
If you happen to work with newtworks/servers and know how internet functions, such a line in the move will be a moment of sheer narm. The whole serious atmosphere will be gone.

[Oloos]

You think to much guys... It's a game ! Just a f****** game !

And the fantasy worlds doesn't have to be tied to realistic physics. I mean, you assume that in Ferelden, steel bears the same weight as on Earth. Why don't you imagine that the gravity force is slightly reduce in the game ? This could explain why rogues can jump and flip like they do on the videos or why a warrior can swing such enormous swords like no one could do in reality.

Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

[Gabriel S.]

Oloos wrote...

You think to much guys... It's a game ! Just a f****** game !

And the fantasy worlds doesn't have to be tied to realistic physics. I mean, you assume that in Ferelden, steel bears the same weight as on Earth. Why don't you imagine that the gravity force is slightly reduce in the game ? This could explain why rogues can jump and flip like they do on the videos or why a warrior can swing such enormous swords like no one could do in reality.

Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

Do humans looks like humans? Do they walk like humans? Do they open their mouth when they speak?<_<

[Oloos]

The Terminator look like human, walk like human and open his mouth when he speak, but he is not human. I'm not telling you that Hawke is a Terminator (but well, maybe, who knows ?), just that a species called human and looking like human is'nt tied to the "real" human possibilities. Like is said, it's a game, not real life...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Oloos wrote...
Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

No. They add to it.

Things are assumed and expected to follow reality, unless shown or stated otherwise. It's a default modus operandi for us humans.
And again, if steel/iron is different form our steel/iron, then why call ti steel/iron??? The thing with names is that they have meaning...tehy have associations. If you don't want to follow them, you don't use them.

And weight is not the only problem with such swords.

[Oloos]

Well... Obviously, you suffer a certain lack of imagination and want things you can't get in a Bioware game. Sorry for you.

So i'll let you with your problems. Have fun !

[Grumpy young man]

@ Oloos



I remember that elven archer ( your avatar )from the video. Any more info on her or is she just that, an art concept ?

[Lotion Soronarr]

I don't suffer from a lack of imagination. I can imagine super-strong human and super-light materials. That doesn't make it good however, nor does it make it necessary.



Quite the opposite, I could say you suffer from a lack of scrutiny and critical thinking. But would that be very nice?

[Oloos]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Quite the opposite, I could say you suffer from a lack of scrutiny and critical thinking. But would that be very nice?

You could, and it's nice yes. Not that i don't have scrutiny or critical thinking, because i have these. Just less than you, meaning that i can enjoy things you can't. And i'm good with that.

@Grumpy young man
Just a concept art. A shame. Really.

[Yrkoon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...
Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

No. They add to it.

  What?   No, that would be reality based adventures, like shooters, flight sims, and sports games. 

Good god.  You really can't grasp the concept of Fantasy, can you.  lol

Please don't make us have to break out a dictionary.  I hate having to resort to such a thing in a debate.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 février 2011 - 02:24 .

[Gabriel S.]

Yrkoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...
Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

No. They add to it.

  What?   No, that would be reality based adventures, like shooters, flight sims, and sports games. 

Good god.  You really can't grasp the concept of Fantasy, can you.  lol

Please don't make us have to break out a dictionary.  I hate having to resort to such a thing in a debate.

How about you read the whole post and consider the context.

*But people, really, we were talking about the huge swords...

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 15 février 2011 - 02:44 .

[Yrkoon]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...
Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

No. They add to it.

  What?   No, that would be reality based adventures, like shooters, flight sims, and sports games. 

Good god.  You really can't grasp the concept of Fantasy, can you.  lol

Please don't make us have to break out a dictionary.  I hate having to resort to such a thing in a debate.

How about you read the whole post and consider the context.

I'm one the the posters who *began* this debate  several  pages ago  (page 1 to be exact).  Why don't YOU scroll back and read everything  before  making such  a feeble defense of Lotion's  unbelievably  retarded stance

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 février 2011 - 02:48 .

[Gabriel S.]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...
Fantasy worlds are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

No. They add to it.

  What?   No, that would be reality based adventures, like shooters, flight sims, and sports games. 

Good god.  You really can't grasp the concept of Fantasy, can you.  lol

Please don't make us have to break out a dictionary.  I hate having to resort to such a thing in a debate.

How about you read the whole post and consider the context.

I'm one the the posters who *began* this debate  several  pages ago  (page 1 to be exact).  Why don't YOU scroll back and read everything  before  making such  a feeble defense of a completely retarded stance

*sigh* What does that have to do with it... I think you still have not read the whole post.

*Which post are you referring to anyway?

This one, on the first page:

Yrkoon wrote...

Just checked. Overall size, yes, the greatswords in Origins are roughly the same as the one that lady hawke is wielding in the video. But the pommels were much shorter in Origins.

Or this one, on the fourth:

Yrkoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Saibh wrote...

MoogleNut wrote...

Or it could be so big and awesome because Varric is y'know, exagerating?
Just sayin'

Exaggeration is not the answer to everything. Swords appear to be the same size--or slightly larger than DAO two-handed swords.

That said.

You see this guy?



It's a bit taller than he is. I don't know his height. But there are other images a few pages back whether the swords are of comparable size.

The sword is taller than he is. Now compare this:



It's taller than she is by a tiny margin. Bearing in mind that she is both shorter than the male models and bending her knees.

Scale has 3 dimensions. Length is only one of them.

Width and Depth are the 2 others.

Spit out your argument now. is it your contention that the sword we're looking at could be fatter and wider than Lady Hawke, and therefore, the very CLEAR cut and paste scaling in the picture above is not accurate?

Yeah, whatever. Your argument fizzled and died the moment it was pointed out that Lady Hawkes sword is no bigger than any of the 2-h swords in Origins. So now you're trying to put up the 3d argument, while assuming that the rest of us wouldn't be able to understand the nature of 3 dimensional images... or be able to cite them in DA:O *and* DA:2. (yes, DA2. would you like to see video of Male Hawke wielding a 2 handed sword in DA2?).

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 15 février 2011 - 02:53 .

[Yrkoon]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...
Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

No. They add to it.

  What?   No, that would be reality based adventures, like shooters, flight sims, and sports games. 

Good god.  You really can't grasp the concept of Fantasy, can you.  lol

Please don't make us have to break out a dictionary.  I hate having to resort to such a thing in a debate.

How about you read the whole post and consider the context.

I'm one the the posters who *began* this debate  several  pages ago  (page 1 to be exact).  Why don't YOU scroll back and read everything  before  making such  a feeble defense of a completely retarded stance

*sigh* What does that have to do with it...

Well, for one thing, the Thread starter did this thread as a response to a debate we were having on another thread, which ALSO happened to spawn a "why does this fantasy game feature such unrealistic-sized swords"  [link to the thread], [ Link to where the debate began].

You entered this thread in the middle of that debate, the  nature of which hasn't changed at all, despite Lotion's attempts to  branch out and go off  on tangents in many of his posts  (not just that one).

So you ask if I've read his WHOLE post?  Yes, I did.   But  I simply decided to ignore the parts of it  that were intentionally irrelevant.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 février 2011 - 03:12 .

[Gabriel S.]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...
Fantasy worls are set to get rid of reality. It's the base of the genre. Live with that...

No. They add to it.

  What?   No, that would be reality based adventures, like shooters, flight sims, and sports games. 

Good god.  You really can't grasp the concept of Fantasy, can you.  lol

Please don't make us have to break out a dictionary.  I hate having to resort to such a thing in a debate.

How about you read the whole post and consider the context.

I'm one the the posters who *began* this debate  several  pages ago  (page 1 to be exact).  Why don't YOU scroll back and read everything  before  making such  a feeble defense of a completely retarded stance

*sigh* What does that have to do with it...

Well, for one thing, the Thread started did this thread as a response to a debate we were having on another thread, which ALSO happened to spawn a "why does this fantasy game feature such unrealistic-sized swords"

You entered this thread in the middle of that debate, the  nature of which hasn't changed at all, despite Lotion's attempts to  branch out and go off  on tangents in many of his posts  (not just that one).

So you ask if I've read his WHOLE post?  Yes, I did.   I but  simply decided to ignore the parts of it  that were intentionally irrelevant.

All I saw was this:

ALVIG824 wrote...

&nbsp;&lt;------- this sword&nbsp;

is it really that big?

OR

is femhawke really that short?
is this just part of varric's exadgerations?
is it going to look that big compared to male hawke?

My response to that is my opinion, which is grounded in reality and physics. What you don't want to acknowledge is that you and Oloos are of the same opinion regarding the matter of the big swords just as I am with Lotion Soronnar.

Thing is, there are certain truths and facts that can't simply be tossed into the magic bucket. Now I simply don't wish to continue this 'what's magic, what's fantasy' discussion 'cause it's beside the point really. The game has a lore, it has a setting, it has rules, explanations, descriptions. Anything that goes beyond that is fanfiction and/or speculation, and I already made a post earlier when I touched on this subject.

If you feel like you want to continue talking about fantasy, so be it.

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 15 février 2011 - 03:11 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Oloos wrote...

You could, and it's nice yes. Not that i don't have scrutiny or critical thinking, because i have these. Just less than you, meaning that i can enjoy things you can't. And i'm good with that.

I'm happy for you.
I have higer standards. That means I don't enjoy some stuff (like wrestling or realtiy shows). And I'm good with that.

[Yrkoon]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

My response to that is my opinion, which is grounded in reality and physics.

Opinions grounded in reality and physics really have no business in a discussion about a fantasy game, since neither one is  a required element in an epic fantasy.  It would be like me going to the GTA boards and bashing GTA because it has cars, and  everyone knows that there are no cars in Thedas.

But I digress, wasn't I responding to Lotion's post?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 15 février 2011 - 03:23 .

[Jaduggar]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What do you mean by that?

It seems we have a communication faliure here. Why did I meantion not liking backflips and over-the-top combat? Because you claimed I'm not complaning about it, so I shouldn't complain about this.
Why should complain about combat animations in a thread dedicated to weapon scale?

And no, my statements weren't fallacious. If a design of a weapon is impractical and redicolous, then that design fails. And anyone with sufficient knowledge in the area knows what makes a design practical/functional. It's not a matter of oppinion, but simple physics and logic.
To somone who doesn't know or doesn't care, such obvious errors mean little.

You ignore the question once more. Why?
Your responses all claim that you are unable to comprehend what I've been saying.

Whatever, I'll state again what I said in my first post in this thread:

"A sword of whatever dimensions would mostly be impractical in reality due to its weight (for all I know); in DA2, however, the combat is much more exaggerated than reality--just as backflips are now a tactical battle move, weight will factor into (most likely) very little.

Doesn't it stand to reason that the sword could still be efficient in this world?"

I understand the sword is impractical in this world.
But in a fantastical setting where combat permits backflips and weight means little, how are the dimensions of the sword in question too unbelievable?

--And again, your gun example exists the property of a straw man fallacy. You're exaggerating the situation and taking it out of context, but this is irrelevant to our argument in general. If you still refuse to believe this, then I won't care to make further arguments--

[Gabriel S.]

Regarding the intro, I seem to recall that in earlier builds they used the Qunari Sword (as it was known in Origins anyway), now they used The Summer Sword. I thought the other one fit better with the edgy, pointy style of Hawke's armor. Though I have to say, the way it is now it does have this ragged but regal vibe to it.

[JoePilot]

edit: wrong thread

Modifié par JoePilot, 15 février 2011 - 03:31 .

[kane442]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...

In french, we, roleplayers, have a acronym for these "exagerations". It's "TGCM", for "Ta gueule ! C'est magique !". In English, it will be "Shut Up ! It's Magic !".

So, imagine these are magically altered swords to be lignter than they should, or in special lighters materials and you should be good.

Fantasy worlds are fantasty worlds, fields with magic, strange creatures, etc etc... You can imagine anything in them, that's the main interest in fact.

"Shut up, it's magic" is for those who don't like to work out their celebral cortex.
A finely crafted world works like a well-oiled machine. Everything has it's place.

Unnecessary explanations and things are avoided.

Lighter materials? We have iron. steel. Known materials. Or are they different in that world? If they are, why keep the same names?

And lastly, why use imparactical (shape/size) things?
"It's magic" doesn't work as an explanation there (unless you assume magic makes everyone stupid).

that sword isnt much longer than a claymore ( 55inches to over 60 about 5.6 feet ) and thats a female hawk ...most female are from 5.3 to 5.9 tall

what most people view as a large(2h) sword are know as hand and a halfs ...they were very common with british and french knights but other places had far larger weapons like the scots and germans

Modifié par kane442, 15 février 2011 - 03:36 .

[Gabriel S.]

kane442 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Oloos wrote...

In french, we, roleplayers, have a acronym for these "exagerations". It's "TGCM", for "Ta gueule ! C'est magique !". In English, it will be "Shut Up ! It's Magic !".

So, imagine these are magically altered swords to be lignter than they should, or in special lighters materials and you should be good.

Fantasy worlds are fantasty worlds, fields with magic, strange creatures, etc etc... You can imagine anything in them, that's the main interest in fact.

"Shut up, it's magic" is for those who don't like to work out their celebral cortex.
A finely crafted world works like a well-oiled machine. Everything has it's place.

Unnecessary explanations and things are avoided.

Lighter materials? We have iron. steel. Known materials. Or are they different in that world? If they are, why keep the same names?

And lastly, why use imparactical (shape/size) things?
"It's magic" doesn't work as an explanation there (unless you assume magic makes everyone stupid).

that sword isnt much longer than a claymore ( 55inches to over 60 about 5.6 feet ) and thats a female hawk ...most female are from 5.3 to 5.9 tall

And how thick is a Scottish claymore again?

*Here's a nice greatsword:

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 15 février 2011 - 03:34 .