268 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

BobSmith101 wrote...

.

Why Bob, you're so...

eloquent.

[LordShrike]

Okay now i'm ###sed. or maybe not.

It's obvious that ships in ME are manouverable as ####, and Reapers one up them in manuverablity 10-0. (according to Joker)Also they can execute high g-turns better, no biologicals running around inside them. Add light lag from distance and you can't hit with massdrivers. (keep in mind that fights don't never start at knife-fight range) And that Eezo-probe thingy. Thats the exact thing picketers are for. (slow things in space? GARDIAN.) Formations in space? Thats just ridiculous! Only good formations ever did was to provide target practice to Op-For. As for the Psychological thing, they have allready taken losses, and that just made them pi###d. Computers? I think the Reapers have us out matched, so if it comes to numbers game...

BobSmith101: Yes, well, i did self-edit out all the exclamation marks i wanted to use... So. Again? Sorry. =) (it's easy to misinterpit the people based just on text, thats why i do this.)

[AkiKishi]

LordShrike wrote...

Okay now i'm ###sed. or maybe not.
It's obvious that ships in ME are manouverable as ####, and Reapers one up them in manuverablity 10-0. (according to Joker)Also they can execute high g-turns better, no biologicals running around inside them. Add light lag from distance and you can't hit with massdrivers. (keep in mind that fights don't never start at knife-fight range) And that Eezo-probe thingy. Thats the exact thing picketers are for. (slow things in space? GARDIAN.) Formations in space? Thats just ridiculous! Only good formations ever did was to provide target practice to Op-For. As for the Psychological thing, they have allready taken losses, and that just made them pi###d. Computers? I think the Reapers have us out matched, so if it comes to numbers game...
BobSmith101: Yes, well, i did self-edit out all the exclamation marks i wanted to use... So. Again? Sorry. =) (it's easy to misinterpit the people based just on text, thats why i do this.)

They are also very very large. Even if they can shift they are still a big target.
They have "heard" about loses, watching one of their "immortal" friends go boom whole different ballgame. Immortals things that chose to be immortal fear death(that's why they wanted to be immortal in the first place), immortal things that never chose it are suicidal. Both work against them.SR-2 is a huge step up over SR-1, which is what you see in the ME cutscene. Plus you got upgrades.

Things are only scary when they are unknown, Once you know what they are, they become puzzles to solve.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 10 février 2011 - 07:01 .

[Wulfram]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dreadnaughts were useless in the age of Dreadnaughts, even before aircraft. They were a consequence of the arms race, not military practicality. Your frame of reference was against any argument in favor of building a Sovereign (or even more Destiny Ascensions), as is the Council's experience in fighting it.

Dreadnoughts probably won WW1, by ensuring British control of the sea.

[LordShrike]

Very very large. True. at mass driver range? (possibly tens of thouseands of km.) Hitting a needle. In a haystack. That's made of needles. In complete darkness. While using temperemental technology to see it. Oh, and it's moving. Very very fast. That immortal thing, something in the game long time ago got me thinking that maybe they have Geth-esque upload thingy. would give something to fall back on. (Nazara for ME3!) Sr-2 is just one ship, and damn expensive one at that. didn't get your point to bring it up tho.

[Dean_the_Young]

Wulfram wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Dreadnaughts were useless in the age of Dreadnaughts, even before aircraft. They were a consequence of the arms race, not military practicality. Your frame of reference was against any argument in favor of building a Sovereign (or even more Destiny Ascensions), as is the Council's experience in fighting it.

Dreadnoughts probably won WW1, by ensuring British control of the sea.

...you actually think that?

[AkiKishi]

LordShrike wrote...

Very very large. True. at mass driver range? (possibly tens of thouseands of km.) Hitting a needle. In a haystack. That's made of needles. In complete darkness. While using temperemental technology to see it. Oh, and it's moving. Very very fast. That immortal thing, something in the game long time ago got me thinking that maybe they have Geth-esque upload thingy. would give something to fall back on. (Nazara for ME3!) Sr-2 is just one ship, and damn expensive one at that. didn't get your point to bring it up tho.

Why would you fight in a way that put you at a disadvantage? I'm starting to think you are indoctrinated ! 
SR-2's upgrades come from the main races, that means the main races have them too. Thats a lot more than one ship.

[LordShrike]

I don't think that you have much of a choice in choosing your battles, them Reapers can hack the Relays to be omni-directional. So you would be figYOU ARE NOTHING!hting as a disadvantage.(in addition to everything else that maWE ARE THE MEANING OF LIFE!kes you the underdog.) Yes, the Council races have those techs. But SR-2 was the only one to incorporate them all.(Expensive!) It would probaSUBMIT NOW FLESHLING!bly bankrupt the races to upgrade everything.

Where did you get the idea i was indoctrinated?

Ps. WE REALLY MEAN ALL THAT, YOU WILL LOSE!

[Ahriman]

BobSmith101 wrote...

SR-2's upgrades come from the main races, that means the main races have them too. Thats a lot more than one ship.

They are prototypes and there is a chance that they never will be in regular army. Do you really think asari use that diamond armor?

[Dean_the_Young]

They aren't prototypes, they're established technologies. They're new developments, but there's nothing implied or inherently unfeasible about them.

[Ahriman]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They aren't prototypes, they're established technologies. They're new developments, but there's nothing implied or inherently unfeasible about them.

Huh? One year old cannon based on Reaper technology is established technology?

[Wulfram]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Dreadnoughts probably won WW1, by ensuring British control of the sea.

...you actually think that?

What do you disagree with?  Obviously a lot of things played their part in winning the war, but the naval blockade of Germany was a major part, it wasn't achievable without maritime dominance and maritime dominance came from Dreadnoughts.

[Moiaussi]

BobSmith101 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

How about the motivation to not lose a war and get wiped out by the Systems Alliance? You're also presuming that the council knows Geth motivations about wanting to create their large Dyson sphere structure to live in, which is something that only Shepard knows.

That may not apply to how the Geth think.They may have concluded that an arms race is counterproductive.
"We" are Shepard (that's the people reading this) so we know. The council has nothing to do with it.

An arms race isn't counterproductive in the middle of a ruddy war. Sheesh, you aren't even trying.

[AkiKishi]

Moiaussi wrote...
An arms race isn't counterproductive in the middle of a ruddy war. Sheesh, you aren't even trying.

That's human thinking.

[Dean_the_Young]

Wulfram wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Dreadnoughts probably won WW1, by ensuring British control of the sea.

...you actually think that?

What do you disagree with?  Obviously a lot of things played their part in winning the war, but the naval blockade of Germany was a major part, it wasn't achievable without maritime dominance and maritime dominance came from Dreadnoughts.

Except maritime dominance didn't come from the Dreadnoughts. The Dreadnoughts sat in port for nearly the entire war, because everyone was afraid they'd be sunk. They got one battle, the Scapa Flow, which they were not necessary for making a draw. The Dreadnaughts didn't blockade, the Dreadnaughts didn't patrol, the Dreadnaughts didn't escort, the Dreadnaughts didn't carry men or material, the Dreadnaughts didn't provide naval bombardment.

Britain's naval dominance came despite the Dreadnaughts, not because of them: for 99% of the war the Dreadnaughts provided nothing nearly everything else couldn't do better (or, you know, actually did), while that 1% they were supposed to be good for (fighting), they weren't necessary in lieu of smaller, cheaper, more numerous craft. The one effective naval arm the Germans had, the Submarines, were the very reason the Dreadnaughts were kept behind torpedo nets at home, and the one branch the Dreadnaughts were never risked against.


Dreadnaughts in WW1 were like the Yamamoto in WW2: too important to risk in anything but the most important decisive showdowns, incapable of providing a decisive victory when deployed, and far eclipsed in combat by every other class of warship.

[LordShrike]

Whoops! you better edit those IRL refs out, Otherwise them moderators are going to hit us with the Banhammer and LockdownSword. jus' sayin mang. I'd rather not see that, me likes this thread.

Dean_The_Young: those techs might be established but damn expensive. i doubt the widescale usage of them in ME3.

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They aren't prototypes, they're established technologies. They're new developments, but there's nothing implied or inherently unfeasible about them.

Actually, considering they could  be refitted to the Normandy using spare parts in deep space, in negligible time, it is safe to say that the writers would almost have to retcon to make them unfeasable.

"Wow! How did you complete the mission with those installed? One more shot and your ship would have blown itself up!" lol

[LordShrike]

Hey! Jury rigging is perfectly acceptable way to save the galaxy!

[James2912]

The reason the Dreadnoughts sat in port is because the German fleet was trapped in port by the British fleet. Submarines could have very well won the war for the Germans. (by the way I am talking about WW1) And Aircraft Carriers are still very powerful and useful weapons especially now that US carrier groups have Aegis cruisers which can easily shoot down antiship missiles. I think Carriers are going to be very important in the reaper war. If you guys want to read about a hypothetical modern superpower war that includes excellent depictions on how a modern carrier battle group works read Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy.

[EternalPink]

I think everybody is missing the point about dreadnoughts (whether past or sci fi future ) and the point of them is there range.

If i can put a shell through your bridge (naval or space-craft) before you can get into weapons range, I win

It was the fact that the WWI dreadnoughts outranged any non-dreadnought and from the ME1/2 codex again Dreadnoughts can engage at extreme range (further away than non-dreadnoughts) so the only realistic way of defeating one would be to have another dreadnought for a extreme range duel or a way of getting your ships into range without taking fire ( tactics, ambushes etc )

Also I just did another playthrough ( suicide mission in a minute ) and did the mission for the reaper IFF yesterday, when you enter the reaper and the barriers go up, if you select the blast our way out option EDI will tell you that reapers barriers are immune to dreadnought scale weaponry so i'd say that if sovereign hadn't of been dicking around with the citadel and saren he most likely could have wiped the entire fleet and then come back, the death by paper cuts sounds rather optimistic

Modifié par EternalPink, 10 février 2011 - 11:12 .

[adam_grif]

Schneidend wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

The answer is because Sovereign wasn't Geth technology, and I'm saying that this should be fairly obvious to the Council, the Turians especially.

The Council is basing the whole "Sovereign was a geth dreadnought" idea on fear, not on logic. They can easily handwave the geth cruisers' lack of Thanix Cannons and say that Sovereign was a "proof of concept" ship implementing prototype technology in the same way the Normandy is the only ship with a stealth field.

That explains why there weren't any during the Battle of the Citadel, not why there haven't been any showing up in the 2 years of combat since then, despite the obvious advantage it would give them in fights. No rational actor could possibly behave this way assuming they had the technology to do it.

[LordShrike]

Range comes pretty much useless in space fight, unless you can direct the shot mid-flight. So the Dreadnoughts look pretty damn impressive on paper. But fall short in an actual fight when your opponent is a damn Reaper that scurries around the battlespace swatting your fellow combatants while your trying to sight the main gun on it. And if you actually get a lock on it, it most certainly knows it: It's not going to be where you shot the damn thing. Most likely it did the math and shot you five minutes ago, you just realized it when the round hit you.

[Inquisitor Recon]

I'm guessing that all of the major races are trying to build new ships out of whatever technology they salvaged from Sovereign. Yet I'm sure they are hiding these efforts from each other, while simultaneously dismissing how powerful Sovereign was.

[Pro_Consul]

ReconTeam wrote...

I'm guessing that all of the major races are trying to build new ships out of whatever technology they salvaged from Sovereign. Yet I'm sure they are hiding these efforts from each other, while simultaneously dismissing how powerful Sovereign was.

Self-deception and self-contradiction are  two staples of politics, after all.

[LordShrike]

Pro_Consul, do i detect voice of experience in that? Any relation to Udina? =)

I think ReconTeam might be right on that, i'ts going to be a one #3ll of a reality check to everyone in ME3.

Que Shep doing airquotes.