268 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

LordShrike wrote...

@ Sajuro:
Or we just introduce them to social.bioware, Now that S#its just plain addictive. =)

WHAT? IT'S GOOD STUFF. AND WHERE ELSE I'M GOING TO GET ALL THIS PROPAGANDA OUT? THIS SHELL IS SOMETIMES A PAIN I TELL YOU. HARBRINGER.
EDIT:
-Geth has a cookie, Geth are building Consensus... "Geth do not Cookie."
"Right, Where did the Cookie go then?"
"No data available... May this platform have another to confirm it's Consensus?"

Are you kidding ? Looking at these forums makes me think the Reapers might be right about wiping us out.

[LordShrike]

@ Sajuro:

Kidding about what? (English failure on my part?) I suppose the the fascination of ME is the suicidal odds. I'm up to proverbial "here" with too easy games and their lousy bosses. The larva? C'mon, two shot kill in Insanity. Meh.

And if that leaks little to the RL... That's like spices, little is always good. =P

Little hazy on what made you to draw that conclusion right now...

DOODS, THIS "YOUTUBE" THING IS LIKE THE BEST THING EVER! HARBRINGER.

[Thracecius]

LordShrike wrote...

I'm assuming Reapers are immune to radiation. Simply because there is a lot of radiation in open space, and reapers are old. (Shep must have radiation poisoning for even coming to contact with the derelict one.) So they either ignore it or somehow purge or nullify its effects.
Thracecius put together some good questions and points.
Physical shockwaves do not exist in space because there is no matter for it to transfer trough. tough other parts of that paragraf was quite accurate.
Swarming does not seem like a good idea, Reapers gonna know its a diversionary tactic and just FTL light sec away, do the math, slug a round to your ship, FTL to another location and laugh when the round hits you few secs later. And they must have superior anti light vessel weapons or their own swarmers to counter that.
Using solar system bodies sound like taking the underdog position before the fight even begins. Remember that the Reapers are the ones who are less affected by gravitational fields and somesuch. They could be waiting in the planetary surface for you to do an overpass; MAC round, you dead. Same with jovians, they wait for you to do core charge dump and, Surprise! Reaper! And on and on. Though it is an novel tactic that gives the advantage of not being predictable.
Hold the line against enemy with the superior firepower, manouverability, weapon multi directionality, resilience, combat endurance and tech? Thats like a assisted suicide. (Oh, yes and the relays are Reaper tech. Thats Reaper turf.) Manouverability comes in to play heavily especially in knife fight ranges. Out manouvering Op-For is half the victory.
Those points were good, but you gotta think outside the box that the reapers have put us. Somehow i seem to be incapable of doing so...
OH, GUESS THE INDOCTRINATION IS TAKING IT'S TOLL. TOO BAD. HARBRINGER.
Sorry for Thracecius for ripping that Sentients well built case to shreds. Not feeling all that "creative" at the moment.

A point of inquiry here: if there are no physical shockwaves in space then how do you explain a supernova? For those who don't want to click the link, here is the relevant passage:

"The explosion expels much or all of a star's material[2] at a velocity of up to 30,000 km/s (10% of the speed of light), driving a shock wave[3] into the surrounding interstellar medium."

As for the relays being "Reaper turf", while it is true that they can deactivate or reactive a relay (per Vigil's explanation), there is nothing to suggest they can use them in any other capacity (e.g. weaponize them), and they still have to use them to travel great distances quickly. The only thing you don't know for certain is when they are coming through the relay (though with FTL comm buoys even that might not be the case), so the solution to that is to mine the relays and or otherwise obstruct the entry flight path with substantial wreckage or debris to disrupt their initial manuervering, then hit them as hard and fast as possible.

The long and short of it is, I don't believe in an unbeatable enemy, I just may not know what the answer is because I am not trained for that purpose. Whatever is offered by the Bioware writers will likely at least be internally consistent, and that's all I really care about in the end. A good story and fun gameplay will earn my vote, and so far Bioware has a good track record of keeping those two elements at the top of their list.

-Thracecius

[Moiaussi]

LordShrike wrote...

@ Sajuro:
No, more Blasta! Definately more Shootier! And make it more red to go even Fasta! Backup plan would be: Waaagh!!! =)
I think i specified that was the case.(Shootier! Blastier! More Dakka! Was i unclear? My bad.)
Do i Geth a cookie for getting the ref?

Frankly I think "More cowbell" would be more effective.... We'll beat them with the power of music! 

[Moiaussi]

Actually on the theory that some stars are transforming into dark matter (whether as a Reaper ploy or as a natural phenomenon), I think the answer will be that some humans, asari, and other biotic races will end up 'ascending' to fight the Reapers, becoming as powerful as any given reaper themselves.



The Reapers 'reap' to prevent any race from ascending that far and/or to coopt them into reaper chow when they are nearly ready to do so.



That could tie the cycle into a natural pheonomenon (although why there wouldn't be any signs of the stellar transformations from the past, I am not sure), and thus help explain the timing.



It is also possible that the transformations are a result of increasing numbers of biotics and eezo based starships, and that this particular tech has side effects that we just don't know about (as in converting the universe to dark matter if allowed to reach critical mass).

[AkiKishi]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

This may sound weird, but I always thought of Sovereign as a giant biotic more than a warship.  He could maneuver in an atmosphere, burned the Eden Prime colony to ash just by landing, and plowed through other ships without taking damage.    The collectors also used biotics, even though most of their important bits had been replaced by cybernetics.  I can't recall him even using his guns until he was trapped on the Citadel Tower, more like a secondary defense.

It did have me wondering if an Ardat Yakshi would be useful.

Theres nothing there really that could not be done by a regular ship with heavy shields and retro's. Its a bit like the damage a rocket causes when it takes off, only in reverse (or some field with a similiar slowing effect) or you just smash into the planet.

Pro_Consul wrote...

But it also very unoriginal, so I hope they don't go that route.

Well we have ME1 which was totally Deus Ex. ME2's T-800 which was totally lame so it's fair to say my expectations of ME3's ending... Really not that high.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 13 février 2011 - 09:25 .

[LordShrike]

@ Thracecius: I was a little wrong on the shockwave thing, wasn't i? Should have read: "if no matter exists, there is no shockwave." Stars expend a lotta material when they go boom. If there is no or very little matter, like Fission device, then the physical shockwave is close to nothing. BUT! Me Wrong.

And we don't know what the relays are capable of. Reapers did build them, and they have penchant for booby traps. As for using scorched earth policy on relays... Those are the council races only way to move around. Reapers seem to be doing fine without them. Plus i think they can induce drift in their relay jumps. e.g. hitting light sec away from the actual relay, thus avoiding the debris field.(scetchy if they even care about the debris and what not, Nazara did plow trough a cruiser without a problem.)

@ Moiaussi:

Power of music? Vuvuzela! BRAAAAAAAAAAAB!!! They ain't getting up from that! XP Odd theories aplenty about there in your post. Thatiswhatidon'teven... Ascension? It is a new one. Tought that was Reapers own thing only, and that included Reaperification by the way of Smoothification. Care to expand on that? or linky? As to the Eezo effects being beneficial to the masses:

"Your civilization is based on the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it." -Nazara.

Mass effect fields, Eezo and MAC guns ARE part of Reaper plans. They are HOPING we increase our quantity of usage in Eezo tech.

[Sajuro]

Moiaussi wrote...

LordShrike wrote...

@ Sajuro:
No, more Blasta! Definately more Shootier! And make it more red to go even Fasta! Backup plan would be: Waaagh!!! =)
I think i specified that was the case.(Shootier! Blastier! More Dakka! Was i unclear? My bad.)
Do i Geth a cookie for getting the ref?

Frankly I think "More cowbell" would be more effective.... We'll beat them with the power of music! 

No, it is clear we must use the power of friendship to drive the Reapers away in disgust. That or build a giant cannon which runs off the power of love, every time you use it the divorce rate goes up 2%

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

LordShrike wrote...

Gyroscopic_Trout Said: (love the username.)
"This may sound weird, but I always thought of Sovereign as a giant biotic more than a warship. He could maneuver in an atmosphere, burned the Eden Prime colony to ash just by landing, and plowed through other ships without taking damage. The collectors also used biotics, even though most of their important bits had been replaced by cybernetics. I can't recall him even using his guns until he was trapped on the Citadel Tower, more like a secondary defense."
Manouvering in atmosphere is the result of MASSIVE eezo core on him. And that burning plant of earth (eden?) behind relay just came from his Thrusters. Eezo cores help movement, not create it. or it was just weapon fire. It is where he was landed tho...
Every warship in Me verse is basically a biotic. They just lack the capacity to project their mass effect field in to anything. (Never been done. nor is there any mention of such thing anywhere.) As to the using of guns... He did make bee-line to the Citadel, not even stopping for that cruiser that got in the way. Guns use power, he was in a hurry. And then the hacking of Citadel took his resources. Then the fleet got trough the Heretic blockade (and shield arms) and he got an actual reason to use his guns.
Didn't see it as biotic thing to do. Tough it IS an intresting idea. Nothing wrong with those.

Admittedly it's been a while, but I don't recall Sovereign having any kind of thrusters.  Maneuvering with a mass effect core seems to be beyond the science of the citadel races, who just use them to negate the force of gravity, then use chemical fuel to propel the ship and maneuver.  With the exception of biotics, mass effect fields seem pretty limited; they do one particular thing, and can't be delicately manipulated by machines.  There are, for example, no tractor beams in Mass Effect, like in Star Trek.  So it's definitely doing SOMETHING strange.

What I'm suggesting is that we haven't really seen one of these things FIGHT before, and that it might have other tricks up its sleeve beyond conventional weapons.

[LordShrike]

@Gyroscopic_Trout:

It sure leaves a lot of gaseous material behind it... Witch would suggest a some kind of thruster. (We need a transcript of ME1 Eden Prime events.) Altough; Accurate macro-scale manipulation of me-fields should act as a warp drive from ST.

Of course they have tricks beyond our understanding. They be Reapers, Yarrr!

[AkiKishi]

Cuttlefish can move short distances by pulsating the lateral fins along the sides of their body. Cuttlefish often appear to hover in the water with this method. Cuttlefish, however, can only travel about 4 mph with their fins. Cuttlefish use their ''siphon'' to quickly "shoot" around underwater. Cuttelfish bring water into their ''mantle'' through the siphon, then they quickly expel it outward, creating a quick, forward movement for the cuttlefish. This is one of the methods that Cuttlefish use to escape

Just insert whatever psuedo science terms fit.

Maybe they expel "space gas". Not something they would want to become common knowledge is it

Modifié par BobSmith101, 14 février 2011 - 04:35 .

[Dean_the_Young]

'Vacuum.'

[LordShrike]

Cuttlefishdrive... Somehow that's even scarier than Warpdrve... gonna steal that one for sure.

(Requires foreknowledge of "Caliban upon Setebos" poem by Robert Browning.)

[CARL_DF90]

The op really does bring up a good point. Hey Bioware! Hope you're paying attention!

[Pro_Consul]

CARL_DF90 wrote...

The op really does bring up a good point. Hey Bioware! Hope you're paying attention!

Yer kidding, right?

Err...right?

[LordShrike]

He's gotta be... Or, Prove it!!!

[AkiKishi]

LordShrike wrote...

He's gotta be... Or, Prove it!!!

I figured out the Reapers strategy. Just before they invade they announce they zip around by expelling gas, then everyone is too busy laughing to fight back.

[CARL_DF90]

lol oy. So much for serious conversation.

[LordShrike]

@ BobSmith101:

Sheesh, Keep in MEverse or in IRLverse, don't skip constantly between them. Oh, yes. PROVE IT!!!

@CARL_DF90:

If you got a serious point then by all means: Hit me! I want to hear it. All theories are valid until proven wrong.

[ZLurps]

Discussion has moved on but I just can't resist my urge to put some of my thoughts here.

I spent some time watching the Citadel battle scene, especially part where Sovereign one shots 3 Alliance cruisers.
Each is destroyed from fire of different Collector... err.. tentacle? It's also notable that Sovereign could destroy targets roughly in area 180 degrees left / right and 180 degrees up / down from it's "head". How it looked on video, I think it's likely that Reaper like Sovvy can pick targets from even larger area than that, even behind it.

For me it looked like tentacles weren't firing at the same time, but one fired right after another. I don't know if that can be  used as base for conclusion that Reaper like Sovvy can't fire simultaneously from several tentacles, that however may not matter.

Alliance, Asari, Turian whatever dreadnoughts can survive perhaps from one hit like that, so Sovvy like Reaper only needs to point two of it's tentacles to target and fire them in a row and it's good bye for dreadnought.
That kinda looks bad for galactic species... in battle against Reaper multi billion (trillion?) dreadnought lasts whole 0.3 seconds longer than a cruiser.

There is of course new defensive technology. Partial quotes from ME Codex.

Codex wrote...
Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT)
...while nanotubes and CVD-diamond construction have become cheaper in recent years, it remains prohibitively expensive to coat starships or aircraft larger than fighters in Silaris material. Second, the armor must be attached to the ship's superstructure, so shock waves from massive firepower can still destroy the metals beneath the armor itself.

Codex wrote...
Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT)
...Significant drawbacks to current CBT configuration prevent its use on anything other than frigates and fighters.

Hmm...
Even it would be possible to upgrade dreadnoughts to use those technologies, making them from multibillion (trillion) credits expensive to absolutely ****ing ridiculous expensive then Sovvy like Reaper would need to point four of it's tentacles to target and fire them in sequence.... So astronomically ridiculously expensive dreadnought lasted all 0.6 seconds longer than one without upgrades.
So estimated total life expectancy for fully upgraded dreadnought in combat against Reaper is 0.9 seconds.

Too bad that according to Codex

Codex wrote...
The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds...

On the positive side, is it just me or do Reapers look very beautiful in odd way? More I have spent wondering and studying them, the more fascinating beings they appear to be. I think it would be very sad if such enigmatic and powerful beings were annihilated... did I mention how beautiful they are?

Modifié par ZLurps, 14 février 2011 - 07:40 .

[LordShrike]

@Zlurps:

Thank YOU, just waiting for some one to finally get all that!

HEY! IS THAT YOU? IT'S ME! HARBRINGER! WE WENT TO ANNIHILATION 101 TOGETHER! HOW YOU BEEN? -HARBRINGER.

[Pro_Consul]

ZLurps wrote...

On the positive side, is it just me or do Reapers look very beautiful in odd way? More I have spent wondering and studying them, the more fascinating beings they appear to be. I think it would be very sad if such enigmatic and powerful beings were annihilated... did I mention how beautiful they are?

Beautiful? They look like the space version of bottom feeders. The aquatic version of cockroaches, uplifted to spacefaring demi-godhood. But maybe that's just me...

[ZLurps]

@LordShrike

EARTHLINGS TECHNOLOGY MORE RESISTANT THAN EXPECTED. ATTEMPT FAILED, FAILED .

ATTEMPTS TO GAIN DIRECT

CONTROL OF "SAFARI BROWSER" ONLY
PARTIALLY

SUCCESSFUL

TELL MOM TO SEND NEW EDIT BUTTON - SOVVY'S REMAINING TENTACLE

Modifié par ZLurps, 14 février 2011 - 07:47 .

[ZLurps]

Pro_Consul wrote...
Beautiful? They look like the space version of bottom feeders. The aquatic version of cockroaches, uplifted to spacefaring demi-godhood. But maybe that's just me...

MY KIND TRANSCENDS YOUR VERY UNDERSTANDING. YOU CANNOT HOPE TO UNDERSTAND TRUE BEAUTY UNLESS YOU ASCEND - SOVVY'S REMAINING TENTACLE

Modifié par ZLurps, 14 février 2011 - 07:51 .

[LordShrike]

@ Pro_Consul:
Hey, the beauty is in the lookers eye. No point in arguing that.
WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW FLESHLING? WE HAVE SEN MORE IN OUR EXISTENCE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE DURING YOUR BRIEF VISIT IN THE INFINITE COSMOS. THINGS SO GLORIOUS THAT GLIMPSE OF THEM WOULD BURN AWAY YOUR FEEBLE MIND. SUBMIT AND YOU MAY FEEL THEM TROUGH US. IS LITTLE PAIN SO MUCH OF A COST COMPARED TO ALL THAT YOU WILL EXPERIENCE. SUBMIT AND EMBRACE YOUR FATE. SUBMIT. ALL FOR JUST A MOMENT OF PAIN. JOIN US. JOIN THE CYCLE. SUBMIT.

DAMN SOV, WE REALLY NEED TO GET YOU HOME. JUST HANG TIGHT, OKAY? HELP IS COMING. -HARBRINGER.

Modifié par LordShrike, 14 février 2011 - 07:56 .