268 réponses à ce sujet

[ZLurps]

NEGATIVE CONTINUING MISSION

FOUND
ON EARTH MY CURRENT

APPEARACE
MOVIE STAR NATIVES           IT "JAPAN"

STATUS
PLANNING INDOCTRINATION CENTER
JUST SEND ME MORE
"EDIT BUTTONS" - SOVVY'S REMAINING TENTACLE

Modifié par ZLurps, 14 février 2011 - 08:12 .

[LordShrike]

@ SOVVY'S REMAINING TENTACLE:
YOU GOT IT, MOM SAID HE DID NOT HAVE ANY, BUT I HAVE A FEW SPARES. GO TOWN.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. -HARBRINGER.
PS. I TOTALLY TROLLED THAT "SHEPARD" FLESHLING, SHE TOUGHT THAT THOSE COLLECTORS ACTUALLY SERVED SOME PURPOSE. HAHA.

Modifié par LordShrike, 15 février 2011 - 03:08 .

[ZLurps]

@HARBRINGER.
SERVES HIM RIGHT AND CONGRATULATIONS ONE MORE PROOF OF OUR INFINITE LO
WISDOM OP

ON MISSION WARNIN
G
WARNING DO NOT
REPE T D NOT INDOCTRINATE FLESLINGS FROM CUPERTINO CA FORNIA
TECH NOT COMPATIB E R PER WARNING                      INFINITE LOOP
NOT USABLE MATERIAL       INDOCTRINATION CAN YOU DO ME A FAVOUR AND BOMBARD
TH SE B  TARDS FROM ORBIT!
MUT CONSERVE ENERGY ENTERING HIBERNATION GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU - SOVVY'S REMAINING TENTACLE

Modifié par ZLurps, 14 février 2011 - 09:01 .

[LordShrike]

@SOVVY'S REMAINING TENTACLE:

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP. WILL DO. STAY SAFE. -HARBRINGER

Now, where were we... Oh, i think we killed the thread. Until someone comes up with some new points to argue. Anyone?

UNTIL THAT HAPPENS: "ASSUMING CONTROL OF THIS THREAD FOR THE REAPERS!"-HARBRINGER.

PS. THAT MEANS WE WIN YO.

[ZLurps]

Argh! Don't let a good thread die!

I wrote about Sovvy like Reaper firepower earlier. I have been thinking other things regarding Reaper combat abilities too.
In ME2 we get to see how Reaper looks from the inside. Even I think it's quite small area that is covered on that mission, there are few things we see to that can be used as base to speculate about Reapers combat abilities a bit further.

Derelict Reaper has very much room inside of it. While it raises interesting question, why would Reapers waste space like that? it still gives them certain benefits in warfare.
First - That empty space can be put to use and so Reaper dreadnought doubles as troop transporter. They don't need to salvage ships or indoctrinate other species to build troop transporting capacity. They have it right from the start.
Then - IMO it's also notable that a Reaper can also function as indoctrination center by itself and / or a Husk production plant and huge one, though I don't think we know if a Reaper can indoctrinate something like 1000 - 5000 individuals simultaneously.

Imagine a scenario -
Few Reaper dreads land on some planet populated by non space faring civilisation. They don't do anything else but just land there and start emitting indoctrination signals. Sooner or later locals try some sort of first contact and that's the opportunity for Reapers.
Say Reapers successfully indoctrinate entire small town, locals start to think that it would be very good idea to take a sight seeing tour around galaxy inside of Reaper.
So Reaper starts it's journey with these willing slaves and on route starts producing Husks from them. Then lands on... let's say Earth and unloads the shock troops... thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of them.

Quite a war machine.

Edit: Non space faring civisation can't warn any other civilisation from Reaper threat, that's why start with them, even Reapers usually annihilate only space faring races.

Modifié par ZLurps, 16 février 2011 - 06:45 .

[LordShrike]

Hmm. good points all. Sentient Zlurps. Very good ones.
One additional use is to fill interior with some form of non-newtonian fluid with heat absorbing capabilities. Talk about combat endurance. Multitasking FTW!
I think there is no upper limit to the indoctrination fields. why would it? With out going to the details of it... When you can get "inside" peoples head like that, brainwashing becomes a breeze. just shock them out of their minds, make them insane. And them just start wishpering in to their heads that you are the god and that your commands must be obeyed. keep doing that for too long and Voila. Indoctrination.
Tho i think that reapers might leave non space faring races alone. gotta have something for the next cycle. Tho Sovvy makes a ref to "pruning the field", as it were: "We impose order to the chaos of organic evolution." So there is a very good probability of that, well spotted.
Gonna do something similiar like you did... Standby for a big post...

Modifié par LordShrike, 16 février 2011 - 02:41 .

[LordShrike]

 Okay, a Scenarios were nice. Here's a mine. (+Propaganda)

Armada  (5DN 17CR +25FRI) is waiting for Reapers to exit the relay to Sol.
SECS:EVENT
0000:Three Reapers slip in, two light sec away from projected area of presence, third in plain sight.
0010:Armada opens fire.
0012:Reaper1 paints all targets in range and calculates speed vectors, relays this to R2 and R3. Engages FTL by the          most beneficient escape vector (least projectiles in way.) Projected loss of R1=15% +/-5%
0020:R2 and R3 open fire on all High value targets. Projected Armada losses: All DNs.
0025:R1 disengages from FTL and opens fire to projected target locations. Total losses to Armada projected in +30%
0030:Armada begins reorganizating, and begins tracking Reapers. Armada still in comms FUBAR.
0060:First rounds from R2 and R3 hit with 75% accuracy, All DNs lost or incapacitated. 90% CCC lost
0120:Last effective rounds from initial Reaper barrage hit. Projected CR losses at 8.
0130:Armada: all targets lost on tracking, no hits on enemy confirmed. No Command structure to reorganize.
0135:Reapers disengage FTL in Armada remains.
Estimateted0250:Armada Eliminated, remnants FTL and no threat to Reapers.

Armada (Double fleet Comp.) engages in search and destroy in Sol system after Relay defeat.
SECS:EVENT
0000:FRI reports Sighting, Fleet begins organising a engagement plan.
0010:Two more Sightings, Fleet gives the fallback command to FRIs.
0015:Reapers triangulate fallback command point of origin.
0030:Massdriver round guts the main comms ship.
0035:CnC Ship gives general distress call thinking something is close.
0055:CnC Ship gutted by Massdriver round.
0060:Launch site calculated, Armada Engages FTL as a countermeasure.
0062:Armada Stragglers killed by surprise FTL from R1.
0065:Armada Disengages FTL finds R2. R2 paints and triangulates and fires.
0067:R2 FTLs out. R2 loss estimated at 15%
0070:R3 FTLs in, fires by R2 data in to the flank of Armada. paints and triangulates.
0075:R3 FTLs out, R1 FTLs in, fires to flank by R3 data.
0085:R1 FTLs out. Estimated Armada losses at +60% No sight, No kill on enemy.
0095:Reapers Brofist and open a Cold one.

Warmachine, Says you.
Something with experience in these things, Says me. Something utterly unknown by human standards and methods. Something that has been doing this since time immemorial with out failure or defeat. Something that has nothing but time to plan about these things, while you manage to walk on your two feet and learn using sticks and stones.
Something that will kill you.
Reaper.

Modifié par LordShrike, 16 février 2011 - 02:07 .

[Moiaussi]

LordShrike wrote...

@ Moiaussi:
Power of music? Vuvuzela! BRAAAAAAAAAAAB!!! They ain't getting up from that!

I hope you realize that was entirely tongue-in-cheek, lol.

XP Odd theories aplenty about there in your post. Thatiswhatidon'teven... Ascension? It is a new one. Tought that was Reapers own thing only, and that included Reaperification by the way of Smoothification. Care to expand on that? or linky? As to the Eezo effects being beneficial to the masses:
"Your civilization is based on the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it." -Nazara.
Mass effect fields, Eezo and MAC guns ARE part of Reaper plans. They are HOPING we increase our quantity of usage in Eezo tech.

Yes, the reapers tell us all sorts of things, including that we haven't got a chance and we should all just make Saren's choice and give in on promises of 'salvation.'

My understanding is that Eezo facilitates biotics as well as mass effect phenomenon. If the amount is steadily increasing that could be having a proportionately greater effect on our physiologies. Simultaneously, if the reaper 'plan' is to guide us into tech that causes us to create such a steadily increasing mass.....'

Using Eezo to power starships, etc, rather than ascending and essentially becoming starships could be the reaper deception. How it could tie in with smoothies is that the side effect is cells which are more and more adept at processing eezo over the course of later generations. That could in turn make such cells ideal starship material for ships maximizing the technology.

If left on our own, we could ascend, or at least discover how to build their ships. However if they wait til the right momment we become ideal construction material, and are distracted from ascending by the more expedient path they put before us. With convenient lesser designs for eezo based drive and weapons systems stuck in conventional hulls, we are much less likely to consider building ships where the entire ship is eezo powered.

We are likewise distracted from the degree to which we are becoming more and more powerful in terms of personal biotics and thus the extent to which we are ascending, becoming more than we are. In the long term that would of course be noticed, but the Reapers plan to harvest before that happens, while we are great shipbuilding material yet not yet a threat..... That could easily be a window of a few thousand years... or it might be much smaller.

Of course this is all idle speculation, and I keep feeling like I am doing the writers' work for them......

[LordShrike]

@Moiaussi:
My understanding of the Sov/Shep confrontation was that Sov did not keep Shep a threat, and therefore indulged the little mortal before it's eventual demise and told the truth.
So, that was your theory... LOGGED: COUNTERED AN ANOMALY; EXTERMINATE. -HARBRINGER. I like the some of it, notably the ship building material part. Makes sense. tho the ascencion part smells a bit magic... Too high concentrations of Eezo are toxic. And for our biology to adapt in to more powerful system of Eezo manipulation could take tens of thousands of years. Of course you COULD mimic it with extensive implants (years) and large scale genetic rewrite.(few generations) witch both seem a bit iffy to be accepted by general public. PLAUSIBLE. SCHEDULE ACCELERATED -HARBRINGER

EDIT:
I know this is not constructive or whatnot. BUT i still think it IS a point worth mentioning. Earlier i made statement that ME fields do not affect inertia. I was corrected and assumed to be wrong. And i was not. 
Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to a change in its state of motion or rest.It is represented numerically by an object's mass.(Mass is not Inertia.) On the surface of the Earth inertia is often masked by the effects of friction and gravity, both of which tend to decrease the speed of moving objects. Now the thing is... Mass. Even IF you manage to change it it does not change the inertia of the object. Wich the ME fields do not do. They only change the mass of the object, not inertia wich is another quantity in it self. Core gamemechanics fault found. I win, bad taste...

Modifié par LordShrike, 16 février 2011 - 02:03 .

[ZLurps]

@LordShrike

Good point about using non newtonian fluids!

About Reaper indoctrination:

ME Codex wrote...
Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.

Yep... I think it's unlikely that there would be a limit for how many targets a Reaper can indoctrinate at the same time, once victims are in the area of influence.

What comes to using non space faring civilisation to build initial mass of shock troops. I got that idea when I was scanning one planet in ME2.
http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Aphras

ME2 Planetary description wrote...
Fossil evidence shows abundant vertebrates and evidence of a sapient terrestrial avian species in its Bronze Age. However, the only trace of contemporary life on the planet is that of single-celled organisms in its seas. All else has suffered from an extinction event - a series of massive impacts that vaporized vast quantities of water and lofted dust into its atmosphere. Early theories that this event was a collision with a fragmenting asteroid have now been discounted - the impact craters were aimed directly at habitation centers.

There's no point of destroying civilisation like that unless Reapers were using it to gather material for their Husks. Perhaps whoever was fighting Reapers back then decided to make sure they won't get more troops from there. Could be something else too, but what's the point annihilating the population and ecosystem? Kind of counter productive...

Something else I dig up from planetary descriptions. There is interesting mention about dreadnought mass accelerator weapon bombardment.

ME2 Planetary description wrote...
Some para-historical theorists insist that the outer rings represent debris from a moon or moons destroyed by mass accelerator bombardment. This has been rejected by every reputable xenoarchaeologist; while it is theoretically possible to destroy a small moon utterly with dreadnought bombardment, no species sees a compelling reason to do so.

So Reaper dreadnought may be capable for orbital bombardment. Hmm... I thought that initial lack of that kind of strike capacity could one weak point Reapers could have. Now it seems they can take care of manufacturing plants on planets from orbit right from the start.

Must stop, I have this funny feeling I want to hum "Don't nerf the Reapers" out loud.

Modifié par ZLurps, 16 février 2011 - 07:42 .

[ZLurps]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
This ... is ... poetry!

Oh, I see you are beginning to understand what we see... 

And quoted for the truth.

Modifié par ZLurps, 16 février 2011 - 07:56 .

[LordShrike]

Well thank you, Neofelis Nebulosa. Thank you. Could do more... Tried to keep it as "real" as possible. with out handicapping either side. IF the reapers go all out, that would be the outcome.

@Zlurps: You actually managed to dig out all the little things with reference (or the ones i tought had.) to Reapers in ME2, i'm impressed. There is one more, its in one the systems you purchase from Ilium if memory serves. And there are others but those are ambiguous. You cant blame ALL on the Reapers. One more reason to play ME2 again. Find all those refs. I always tought the reapers would have orbital bombardment capability. i.e. the infamous ME1 codex entry wich states that Sovvy would have the spinal gun, thats all you need for it. Also, not having it would be nerfing yourself in space warfare. Seeing as it is mostly about reach, speed and math. (<Would need book to explain what it is in my mind, thats just the basics.)
EDIT:
"Ooh, dont nerf the reapers, dont dont nerf the reapers, nerf dont nerf the reapers, reapers dont nerf the reapers..."
Been humming it all a long. Everyone together now!
"Ohh, Dont nerf the reapers, dont....":whistle:

Modifié par LordShrike, 17 février 2011 - 09:06 .

[ZLurps]

There is one more thing I have been thinking regarding Reaper combat capabilities.

Boarding.
On old boards people wondered if small tentacles, or rather Reaper "legs" underneath it would have any purpose, or if they were there just to make Reapers look more organic.

Then In ME2 we see in derelict Reaper mission, that there are cylindrical (or perhaps ball) joints in those legs inside of Reaper. Also "leg" IMO crane like structure indicates that they are build to do something

I recall there were speculation if Reapers would use those legs to dock with something in dark space on old boards. We can't know about that, but I think those could be used to board other space ship.

Being able to board and take over enemy ship can be useful for espionage, infiltration and sabotage. Reaper boards say.. SSV Coral Sea. Takes it over with Husks or whatever minions and gets captain or other staff alive after indoctrination they know everything they know about Alliance defense plans. Or even better. There is Turian admiral on board of a ship, Reaper boards the ship and get him alive. Then use slow method of indoctrination to get their own man/woman inside of Turian command structure.

Are these beings awesome...
"...take my hand... (indoctrination) We'll be able to fly... (don't nerf the reapers)"  

Modifié par ZLurps, 17 février 2011 - 08:09 .

[Moiaussi]

There is a problem with the whole boarding concept.... you have to get aboard, lol. That means you need a hole in the hull, and if you already have a hole in the hull, why are you boarding instead of firing weapons into it?

[LordShrike]

Afore mentioned post already mentioned the reasons for it, Moiaussi.

Mainly i did this post just to show my super cool new sig.

BASK IN MY SIG-GIFIED GLORY! -HARBRINGER.

Points still valid tho.

[Moiaussi]

LordShrike wrote...

Afore mentioned post already mentioned the reasons for it, Moiaussi.
Mainly i did this post just to show my super cool new sig.
BASK IN MY SIG-GIFIED GLORY! -HARBRINGER.
Points still valid tho.

The reapers don't have ships per se, though. Sovereign wasn't Saren's 'ship' with Saren or Geth manning the helm, engines, etc.

Sovereign for all intents and purposes was the ship.... not exactly something that you can capture other than maybe by hacking/mind control, and if you can do that, again, why do you need to board?

Similarly Reapers don't need boarding actions. They have indoctrination fields and can write viruses like the one that affected the heretics.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 17 février 2011 - 08:51 .

[ZLurps]

Moiaussi wrote...

There is a problem with the whole boarding concept.... you have to get aboard, lol. That means you need a hole in the hull, and if you already have a hole in the hull, why are you boarding instead of firing weapons into it?

Because that leaves you without plan B if galactic races happen to have firepower that can challenge yours. But send one of their own ships there, close to their orbital defense platforms. Ship that sends valid security clearance and which captains identity can be confirmed with visual and/or radio contact can get where a Reaper can't.

[ZLurps]

Moiaussi wrote...
Similarly Reapers don't need boarding actions. They have indoctrination fields and can write viruses like the one that affected the heretics.

Good luck sending ultra- or infrasonic waves in vacuum.

[LordShrike]

@ Moiaussi: Umm, what? Reaper boarding a Human ship for a insider. Not the other way around.
Indoctrination is apparently very short ranged and time consuming.
Feel like showering my praise on that Zlurps post some more, Maybe do something of my own.
It did land on Citadel, why not just do the same with some hapless DN? Prolly would require some modding if it isn't standard already, not such a big thing considering Sheps crew did same on their own.
Bit surprised about the recivement to the earlier "Loong" post. I just stated the obvious?
Can't think of anything obvious or constructive at this time. sooo...
Bumb, for great justice. and for Reaper dominance.
EDIT: Oh, Ninja'd. is "FTL'd" accepable substitute? Cause that would be coo.

Modifié par LordShrike, 17 février 2011 - 09:01 .

[ZLurps]

@LordShrike
There were cool thread on old forums how to defeat Reapers by hurling planets at them. If my memory serves me right it could be possible by using technologies that are established in ME. Folks on the forum don't seem to think outside of the box like that anymore, but what can you do... (but of course indoctrinate).

Modifié par ZLurps, 17 février 2011 - 09:22 .

[Moiaussi]

LordShrike wrote...

@ Moiaussi: Umm, what? Reaper boarding a Human ship for a insider. Not the other way around.
Indoctrination is apparently very short ranged and time consuming.
Feel like showering my praise on that Zlurps post some more, Maybe do something of my own.
It did land on Citadel, why not just do the same with some hapless DN? Prolly would require some modding if it isn't standard already, not such a big thing considering Sheps crew did same on their own.
Bit surprised about the recivement to the earlier "Loong" post. I just stated the obvious?
Can't think of anything obvious or constructive at this time. sooo...
Bumb, for great justice. and for Reaper dominance.
EDIT: Oh, Ninja'd. is "FTL'd" accepable substitute? Cause that would be coo.

Indoctrination is long term if the reaper wants the prey to think independantly as it did with Saren. The captives on Vermire sounded like they were ready to break over a few days, and one had, and that was without Sovereign trying.

The smugglers on Eden referred to the effect as a 'pounding constant drumming in their head making it impossible for them to think' or somesuch, so even if it isn't immediate full control, there is a significant level of debilitation. If they want to capture a ship for espionage purposes, they could just debilitate the crew that way, then indoctrinate them over time as needed.

They obviously have some practical way to remotely indoctrinate anyway, or the Protheans wouldn't have had such troubles with sleeper agents.

Also, the only reason it had to dock with the citadel was that the citadel itself had been hacked with specific anti-reaper countermeasures.

[LordShrike]

What we (Sorry for presuming Zlurps.) are suggesting that Protheans had problems with Sleeper agents is just because of this "Boarding" thing. Problem with indoctrination is it "precision" or lack there of. Indoc. is not remote control, it's brainwash.(EDIT: You stated that yourself. Eh?)

"Also, the only reason it had to dock with the citadel was that the citadel itself had been hacked with specific anti-reaper countermeasures."

Where does it say that?

Modifié par LordShrike, 17 février 2011 - 09:27 .

[ZLurps]

Moiaussi wrote...
They obviously have some practical way to remotely indoctrinate anyway, or the Protheans wouldn't have had such troubles with sleeper agents.

Obviously Protheans lost their communications when Reapers took control of the mass relays making it impossible for one Prothean world to warn others. So Protheans welcomed indoctrinated "refugees" with open arms. Vigil explains all this IMO very well in ME1.

[Moiaussi]

ZLurps wrote...

Obviously Protheans lost their communications when Reapers took control of the mass relays making it impossible for one Prothean world to warn others. So Protheans welcomed indoctrinated "refugees" with open arms. Vigil explains all this IMO very well in ME1.

And yet they knew that without communications.... Vigil explained relatively little. It is the kind of thing that in RL entire books could be written around (or in this case, potentially ME3)