268 réponses à ce sujet

[LordShrike]

@Zlurps:

Erm, you are not my good cloned twin. Are you? Just asking. 'Cause that's like far out mang...

"This thread is pretty much (at least now) about how awesome the Reapers are. We hope that those who do not understand these magnificent beings and wish to destroy them would instead join us who understand and ascend towards better, brighter future Reapers offer for the humanity."

Tought about joking about this a few posts back....

"Also, I find it fun to collect information about Reapers and perhaps later compare what was discovered in this topic and other similar topics and compare that against what kind of Reapers we actually see in ME3. I'm not, and I guess LordShrike isn't either, trying to establish some sort of "canon" Reaper or try to tell developers what kind of Reapers there should be in ME3 but just study the lore."

Wholeheartedly agree. i get gringes when some one states that this is how Reapers MUST be in ME3.

"English and ability to understand information in it's context... Doesn't help that one reason I started writing in these forums is that my English needs practice..."

Just said the same thing to a friend... Pretty much word to word. (Barring translation.)

Totally Tripping.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Indoctrination! Our weapon is suprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our three weapons are fear, and surprise, and the ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Reapers.... Amongst our weapons...are fear, surprise, ruth... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear... I'm sorry. Harbringer - you'll have to say it.. -Harby@sub/tentacle/3.

MULTITASKING FAILS AGAIN, ROOTFAIL... NOBODY EXPECTS THE INDOCTRINATION! -HARBRINGER.

I think, there may however, be a limit to the actual useful indoctrinees. As in Saren-esque; capable of independent tought. Those would require more "Tentacles on" approach than general Shock&Indoc used for the masses of the victims. Certainly less than handfull, considering all the variables associated with organics.

I'm going to quote this one more time..."Infrasound has been known to cause feelings of awe or fear in humans. Since it is not consciously perceived, it can make people feel vaguely that supernatural events are taking place." If, and why not; the Reapers can control this effect to it's potential, it would form a solid base for any Indoc. type device.

Lot more ctrl+v/ctrl+c than original text. Sorry about that, arms still acting up. Reason found: Speeedrun on Insanity. =)

[LegacyOfTheAsh]

[quote]Zacarius2 wrote...

One thing that struck me as odd is that the Council, new or old, does not seem to be acting on its on beliefs. No matter what happens at the end of Mass Effect 1, the Council in Mass Effect 2 says that Sovereign was a geth warship, built by the geth. Now from a military-industrial point of view this means that the geth have both the design and ability to create more. Yet the Council seems to take the construction of Sovereign as a fluk. A one off, never to happen again event. Even though they admit to having no idea what is happening behind the Persius Veil and have not done anything to reduce the geth's production abiities.

Our own history has show that when a new or dadically redesigned weapon is created that massive effort is put into recreating that weapon for your side. When the HMS Dreadnought was unveiled in 1906 all production of non-big gun battleships stopped. All previous designs were thrown out and all ships that were currecntly being build were redesigned to the Dreadnought pattern. Now mind you HMS Dreadnought was one ship that had never fired a shot at that time. Simply by existing it changed navel warfare. This Dreadnought Effect is missing form the ME universe. Every race's military should be trying to construct Sovereign class warships because their precieved enemies also have the supposed ability to construct them.

 Now there are a few easily explained answers for this ommision.
1. Shepard is an operative. Most operatives are not informed of their militaries navel build strategies.
2. The destruction of Sovereign gave the militaries of the galaxy the false belief that they can "paper-cut" to death these new geth warships.
3. The higher-ups in the political-military organizations of the galaxy actually beileve part of what Shepard was saying, but not the rest of it. That Sovereign was a Reaper, but that he was the only one.
4. The construction of Sovereign class warships takes time. Organics unlike geth can not work nonstop, so only the basic construction has begun. (possibly what was shown in Kaji's greybox)[quote]
Or #5: It is a transparent plot device by the writers to give you more of a sense of autonomy to stress the importance of self reliance of Shepard and allow you to become immersed in Shepard's own frustrations with the council.

Modifié par LegacyOfTheAsh, 22 février 2011 - 09:03 .

[LordShrike]

@LegacyOfTheAsh:

Adressing the OP? We (The Reapers) have dismissed that claim.

Now it's:

"This thread is pretty much (at least now) about how awesome the Reapers are. We hope that those who do not understand these magnificent beings and wish to destroy them would instead join us who understand and ascend towards better, brighter future Reapers offer for the humanity."

[ZLurps]

@LordShrike
Well, the Reapers look much the same...

Side note: I sometimes wonder how the OP feels about how his(?) topic turned out to be, but discussion about dread fleets seemed to has run their course. Now Reapers are essentially living, sentient dreadnoughts and have more abilities than just shooting stuff, so I think this thread will still do for now.

LordShrike wrote...
I think, there may however, be a limit to the actual useful indoctrinees. As in Saren-esque; capable of independent tought. Those would require more "Tentacles on" approach than general Shock&Indoc used for the masses of the victims. Certainly less than handfull, considering all the variables associated with organics.

That is one weakness I have been wondering a lot. Basically they have all the means to indoctrinate few sleeper agents, infiltrators and such but creating lot's of foot soldiers and Husk etc. they need masses.
If there is resistance, even information broadcasts and masses are even partially aware of threat Reapers posses, then they need exceptional individuals to carry tasks like gathering masses for them. Paradox is that exceptional individuals may also has exceptionally strong will and Reapers can't just go and rapid indoctrinate them.

ME2 Codex wrote..
Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable, Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.

I have one theory in mind how things could get complicated for Reapers but I need to get back to it later, but it involves using QEC.
Reapers rely on taking over the mass relays, trapping fleets and cutting intergalactic communications. With QEC (which physics seems to be a can of worms we don't want to open BTW), even there would be just one for every cluster that could change things what comes to Reapers harvesting plan.

Modifié par ZLurps, 22 février 2011 - 10:46 .

[huntrrz]

Saren100 wrote...

I think thanix guns are a plothole

Why would sovereign not have given that tech to the Heretic geth before moving on the citadel.

Because you don't give GOOD equipment to the patsies you're going to wipe out once they've served their purpose.

[Moiaussi]

huntrrz wrote...

Saren100 wrote...

I think thanix guns are a plothole

Why would sovereign not have given that tech to the Heretic geth before moving on the citadel.

Because you don't give GOOD equipment to the patsies you're going to wipe out once they've served their purpose.

Especially not when your control is indirect and they may still turn on you.

[Zacarius2]

Side note: I sometimes wonder how the OP feels about how his(?) topic turned out to be, but discussion about dread fleets seemed to has run their course. Now Reapers are essentially living, sentient dreadnoughts and have more abilities than just shooting stuff, so I think this thread will still do for now.


I feel much like a centerist does in current American politics. That the discusion has been coopted by the lunatic fringe and that real debate can not happen. But I also know that just in the political analogy that the fringe does not decide what is going to happen. So I say go ahead and play your little games, those of us that want honest back and forth discussions will find them elsewhere.

[ZLurps]

Zacarius2 wrote...
I feel much like a centerist does in current American politics. That the discusion has been coopted by the lunatic fringe and that real debate can not happen. But I also know that just in the political analogy that the fringe does not decide what is going to happen. So I say go ahead and play your little games, those of us that want honest back and forth discussions will find them elsewhere.

The problem is that I don't know if there is much left to discuss.

Zacarius2 wrote...
Now ignoring those, since I made that argument for you. Why would the Council ignore its own retoric ( that Sovereign was geth built) when it comes to their own military plans? Where is the Dreadnought Effect? Shouldn't they all be hurriedly building their own? Because if the geth can destoy the number of ships they did with one Sovereign class ship what happens when they show up next time with two or three?

Geth activity almost stopped after the Citadel battle, and how was the situation after that battle explained in the game again? There were few isolated Geth groups left that needed to be removed but everything indicated that main Geth threat was over. They were beaten.

Every politician wants to look good. When there is a threat people are likely to cheer if president/prime minister announces that they have begun construction of say 3 new aircraft carries. When there isn't a threat people in general won't be so happy about similar kind of announcement because they know those things are damn expensive and constructing (and equipping) them means higher taxes.
Working public don't like to be taxed, entrepreneur sector outside of military contracts won't like it because also they need to pay more taxes and public has less to spend, so less revenue for them and so on.

Dreadnought class ships are no doubt very expensive to construct and in addition to that there can be logistical problem as well.
Not every shipyard has capacity to construct dreadnought class ships for similar reasons as not every shipyard has capacity to build giant oil tankers or huge luxury liners IRL. There isn't enough demand. Most ships are small or mid size passenger ships, car ferries, cargo ships, fishing boats, etc.
So when, lets say the Alliance chooses to order 3 dreadnought class ships from shipyards, those shipyards probably won't be able to construct huge helium-3 transports, or huge cargo ships at the same time. Or could but then construction time would take 5 years instead of 3. I think it's likely that they won't be able to construct much anything else but perhaps frigates at the same time and even that in case that same kind of materials and equipment, say navigation and com systems can be used in both, dreads and frigates.

Other shipyards can of course build replacement capacity but in the end larger transporters are more cost effective than fleet of small transporters over long distances. So party that chooses not to build dreadnoughts gains logistical and economical gain in comparison to party that chooses to tie their constructing capacity for dreadnought construction.

But many others has earlier brought up the point that IRL dreadnoughts weren't very cost effective.
I actually think that it can be said that dreadnoughts changed naval warfare, not directly on the sea, but outside of battlefield and that in turn led to ship classes used today.

If there is anything else, I promise I try to answer and leave Sovvy's tentacle to admire his own reflection from a mirror for a while.

Modifié par ZLurps, 23 février 2011 - 11:06 .

[Zacarius2]

I know this thread went way off on a tangent about how to defeat a reaper, and that was never my intention. I simply wanted to ask if the Citadel races, or even just humanity, was at war with the Geth, then why are they not responding to the new Geth super weapon?

The loses the Alliance and the Citadel fleets sustained in that one attack, even if they destoyed all the supporting Geth ships, is unacceptable in military circles. Every race would be studying the Battle of the Citadel to see what happened and how to prevent it in the future. This is appearently not happening (at least form the Shepard point of view we are given).

Even if we accept that most major actions against the Geth have stopped, that still leave them in a cold war state. Production and inovation do not stop during intrawar periods. You must build the warships you will need to fight the next war before that war starts or else the war will be over before your fleet is ready. Just ask the French.
Outside of Shepard and about the one hundred other people in universe that know and accept that Sovereign was a reaper and not Geth, everyone else must opperate under the assuption that the Geth have the capability to produce more Sovereign class warships. {tangent here: even if Sovereign was a prototype and failed, the production facilities and the knowledge gained form it in combat would only produce a far stronger and better version} Yet none of the races take the Geth threat seriously enough to put forth the effert to match a Sovereign class warship on equal terms.

Bioware seams to model the militaries of the Mass Effect races on the military doctrines of the early 20th century. Which is fine, it provides a good frame of reference. But the blue water navies of that time were always trying to atleast match, if not one up each other in strength and capability. So once again I ask the question. Gethland has produced a new secret weapon. They used it in an attack on the Allied Nations Joint Command Capital. It was defeated at great cost to the Allies. Where is the response? Gethland has not been invaded. Gethland's production capacity has not been destroyed. The Allies have no spies in Gethland, how do we not know that they are not building more of these super weapons and the next attack there will be three or five or a dozen of them? Where is our response to this change in military power?

This is what I noticed was missing, The Citadel races are not on a war footing. They are acting like everything is lollipops and rainbows.

Edited for spacing, wallof text bad

Modifié par Zacarius2, 23 février 2011 - 11:37 .

[ZLurps]

There is nothing wrong in expanding the topic.
EDIT: Especially because building a fleet is not purely a military matter, it requires political will too.

I'm sure military leaders of galactic leaders are demanding more "rockets and guns" but time isn't right. The public saw victory at Citadel and doesn't see there is a threat anymore and public gets what public wants because they get to vote and ATM public doesn't want more dreadnoughts.

You try to see things like constructing military capacity is only a military matter, but it's not. Assuming you are a citizen of USA, think about it. Army doesn't decide how much funding they get, United States Secretary of Defense doesn't decide it. It's your politicians that decide and they don't increase the funding if that's going to result their defeat in the next elections.

What you wrote about France can be spot on regarding your question. If you think about why they chose the path they did you get the answer to your question. Thing is, people never learn.

Edit: Also think of economical strain. When it comes to things like building very special kind of ship, say dreadnoughts, it's building military might in the expense of your trading capacity. So you move up on a galactic ladder on military side but lose position on economical side.

Modifié par ZLurps, 23 février 2011 - 12:15 .

[Wulfram]

There is a fairly high degree of military spending going on. The upgrades you put on the Normandy seems to have been new research, the Alliance has built itself some Normandy class vessels and if the Council is dead it seems like there's an arms race with the Turians heating up.



The Mass Effect universe seems to be pretty unmilitarized so even if they have ramped up spending considerably it's not going to have a dramatic effect on every day life

[ZLurps]

There is always military spending going on, US has huge military budget. Maintaining army creates part of the costs, research creates part of the costs and then there are operative cost from missions and so on. It can be said, especially when there are operative costs now from missions, tax payers understand high amount of spending and need for taxes.

However, if current party in power would go and order 3 aircraft carriers atm that would add on top of other military spending, how do you think the public would react?

Turians build cruisers, humans build cruisers or fighter carriers, but only fully equipped carriers comes anywhere close to costs of dreadnought.

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zacarius2 wrote...

One thing that struck me as odd is that the Council, new or old, does not seem to be acting on its on beliefs. No matter what happens at the end of Mass Effect 1, the Council in Mass Effect 2 says that Sovereign was a geth warship, built by the geth. Now from a military-industrial point of view this means that the geth have both the design and ability to create more. Yet the Council seems to take the construction of Sovereign as a fluk. A one off, never to happen again event. Even though they admit to having no idea what is happening behind the Persius Veil and have not done anything to reduce the geth's production abiities.

Our own history has show that when a new or dadically redesigned weapon is created that massive effort is put into recreating that weapon for your side. When the HMS Dreadnought was unveiled in 1906 all production of non-big gun battleships stopped. All previous designs were thrown out and all ships that were currecntly being build were redesigned to the Dreadnought pattern. Now mind you HMS Dreadnought was one ship that had never fired a shot at that time. Simply by existing it changed navel warfare. This Dreadnought Effect is missing form the ME universe. Every race's military should be trying to construct Sovereign class warships because their precieved enemies also have the supposed ability to construct them.

 Now there are a few easily explained answers for this ommision.
1. Shepard is an operative. Most operatives are not informed of their militaries navel build strategies.
2. The destruction of Sovereign gave the militaries of the galaxy the false belief that they can "paper-cut" to death these new geth warships.
3. The higher-ups in the political-military organizations of the galaxy actually beileve part of what Shepard was saying, but not the rest of it. That Sovereign was a Reaper, but that he was the only one.
4. The construction of Sovereign class warships takes time. Organics unlike geth can not work nonstop, so only the basic construction has begun. (possibly what was shown in Kaji's greybox)

Now ignoring those, since I made that argument for you. Why would the Council ignore its own retoric ( that Sovereign was geth built) when it comes to their own military plans? Where is the Dreadnought Effect? Shouldn't they all be hurriedly building their own? Because if the geth can destoy the number of ships they did with one Sovereign class ship what happens when they show up next time with two or three?

Three words: white elephant project. You bring up the HMS Dreadnaught, but the thing about the Dreadnaughts is that they were never really used: they were too costly to risk, which undermined the entire point. Dreadnaughts sat in ports, far from danger, while cruisers and destroyers waged the real war.

Kind of like the Destiny Ascension: 'the pride of the Citadel Fleet' was stationed at the least dangerous location in the entire galaxy (the Citadel itself, not out blocking the relays), at the first wave of the Geth invasion it almost immediatly got put into service as an escape pod for the Council before trying to flee from the battle, and simply the loss of it will drive the Asari from the galactic defense stage.

History's lesson about the Dreadnaught isn't that they made all other ships obsolete. It's that they were the biggest, most useless, least effective money sinks of military history.

Simply because Sovereign was big and powerful doesn't mean it was effective: it was being 'paper-cut to death', hence why it had to possess Saren's corpse to activate the Citadel Relay more quickly.

You make a point here about the cost.  The way to fight a Reaper might not be with heavy guns on warships, shooting it out at close range.  Maybe the key is fighters and carriers.  Losses among fighters striking Sovereign type reapers would likely be bad, but if you lose a thousand fighters for every Reaper you destroy, you're winning the war, given the likely cost differentials involved.

[LordShrike]

Wierd thread. I keep thinking it's dead and go on to do something else for a while, i come back and there's a whole discussion that happened. WITHOUT ME! *sob*

Zacarius2 said:

"I feel much like a centerist does in current American politics. That the discusion has been coopted by the lunatic fringe and that real debate can not happen. But I also know that just in the political analogy that the fringe does not decide what is going to happen. So I say go ahead and play your little games, those of us that want honest back and forth discussions will find them elsewhere."

Lunatic fringe? =) Okay. Though, i oppose the last sentence. It naturally evolved to such, and there was no one to guide us back to to the "true path" when it began to happen. Furthermore, discussion has always been above board, reasonable and Back and forth; with all posts noted as part of it. I think none had intentionally guided discussion off topic, when it comes down to it. If you want that "honest back and forth discussions" all you gotta do is take part, Eh? Sorry if you feel cheated by last few pages, things just rolled that way. But now that you are "back"...

[ZLurps]

@LordShrike
I don't know myself what is happening in this thread half the time.

Edit: Uups, post slipped prematurely. 

Modifié par ZLurps, 23 février 2011 - 05:39 .

[KenKenpachi]

You know reading through this I have a sollution. Frigates are good fast attack ships but no armor. Dreds are huge ass battleships, but slow and vulnerable. While cruisers are dreds on the cheap.



Why don't they make....oh I don't know a ship thats an esscort for larger ships, moderately Armed and armored, with an anti frigate capability, and a torpedo/missile stand off capability to keep cruisers at bay? Wait there is a real life ship like that, its called a DESTROYER. way to drop the ball humanity.



Honestly if we lose the SR2 I would like the SR3 to be a new destroyer class ship. Better armor and weapons than the frigate. Smaller and faster than a cruiser.

[ZLurps]

KenKenpachi wrote...

You know reading through this I have a sollution. Frigates are good fast attack ships but no armor. Dreds are huge ass battleships, but slow and vulnerable. While cruisers are dreds on the cheap.

Actually Reapers are faster and more manouverable than SR-1. Confirmed by Joker in ME1.

[KenKenpachi]

ZLurps wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

You know reading through this I have a sollution. Frigates are good fast attack ships but no armor. Dreds are huge ass battleships, but slow and vulnerable. While cruisers are dreds on the cheap.

Actually Reapers are faster and more manouverable than SR-1. Confirmed by Joker in ME1.

I was speaking of the non-reaper kind.

[ZLurps]

I see. Then you need to take in account that dreadnoughts are never alone. They have fleet with them. Stealth frigate though might be the answer, as submarine equivalent from naval warfare.

[KenKenpachi]

ZLurps wrote...

I see. Then you need to take in account that dreadnoughts are never alone. They have fleet with them. Stealth frigate though might be the answer, as submarine equivalent from naval warfare.

Aware of that, was pointing out that the Destroyer class of ship is a good robust platform that can fill up many of the gaps in current battle tactics in the ME universe. Its like a game of R/P/S in current form also keep in mind in the First World war a screen of Destroyers and Torpedo boats did MORE damage than the big gun ships in the battle that resulted when the Germany Navy attempted a breakout and engagement against the Royal Navy. While frigates tended to not stand up well in those exchanges. By the Very fact normal frigates work together in packs to me says that TRADOC assumes heavy losses in those ships.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 février 2011 - 07:32 .

[ZLurps]

@LordShrike
Be warned, this is long and to make it even worse, my thoughts about your 404 scenario are in part II under QEC and Fleet Combat. Much better scenarios can be made but perhaps this will do for now.

ZLurps wrote...
I have one theory in mind how things could get complicated for Reapers but I need to get back to it later, but it involves using QEC.
Reapers rely on taking over the mass relays, trapping fleets and cutting intergalactic communications. With QEC (which physics seems to be a can of worms we don't want to open BTW), even there would be just one for every cluster that could change things what comes to Reapers harvesting plan.

Well, time to get back to this.

So for the Reapers destroying is easy. Few hundred Reapers blow galactic fleets to pieces faster than one can say "****ing disgrace". That is if galactic races try to fight them by using traditional fleet tactics.
Also taking control, or eliminating strategic points, like enemy shipyards and manufacturing plants on planets is also easy for them, they can blown them from the orbit with mass accelerator weapon. If there is anything they want to spare for some reason, storm those places with the Husks, Scions etc. so things looks pretty grim for people on planets too.

However if Reapers lose surprise momentum things can change a bit. Outcome would still be much the same, Reapers would win, but perhaps not without losses and perhaps they wouldn't be able to harvest.


PART I: QEC and Research

By using QEC cluster that is under Reaper attack can warn other clusters about the nature of Reaper threat. Firepower, indoctrination, Husks, Scions etc. If QEC technology spreads that is an advantage current galactic civilisations have compared to Protheans. In Protheans case once Reapers took over the Citadel there were no comms between clusters.

I don't know if Protheans in colonies knew what exactly was happening and if similar messages we heard on Ilos ("Invading fleets... No escape... ...Cannot be stopped...") were sent to other clusters as well, but as Vigil confirms, there was no knowledge of Reapers actual firepower, indoctrination, Husks, etc. Just that Citadel was lost to hostile fleets.

I guess Protheans started constructing their own fleets for their defense. One cluster with several systems could easily construct fighters, cruisers, destroyers, carriers, etc. even dreadnoughts, but they didn't knew what kind of weapon systems would be effective against Reapers, what kind of barriers would be effective against Reaper weapons and so on. Last nail in their coffin was that they didn't knew about indoctrination, like Vigil explains on Ilos.

QEC even it has it's limitations can change that for current galactic races. Even suicide mission against Reaper fleet can be useful as long as at least one ship with QEC lasts long enough to send information from that battle. Video, data from onboard systems, etc. As long as there is someone receiving that information in star cluster then effective tactics, weapons and shields could be developed.

I think it's also very important that via QEC research and technology can be shared. Humans and Turians have Thanix technology, Asari, Salarians and Quarians doesn't. Then maybe Asari have a shield technology that may help against Reapers.
Protheans had no way to share their findings because star clusters were severed from each others, even if something useful was invented in one cluster, there was no way to inform other cluster about that.
This time QEC can change that. It however requires that there is QEC network between star clusters. For example in addition to have QEC line for fleet that fought against Reapers Alliance also needs to have QEC line to Asari, Turians, Salarians and Quarians that this could work.

Being able to share experience and research data could lead to overall stronger defenses and maybe Salarians could live a  minute longer because Reapers would lose like 30 seconds while eliminating upgraded Asari fleets and planetary defenses before moving into their cluster. For Salarian that's like whole two human minutes, who knows what kind of awesome things they can invent in a minute. >


PART II: QEC and Fleet Combat

Even Reapers would take control over the mass relay network, fleet combat is still an option in star clusters. To have any hope of success, defensive fleet needs to know where Reaper fleet is located, where defensive fleets supply and repair fleet is located.

Say there were two fleets, supply and maintenance fleet and battle fleet. Fleets need to have QEC line between them and in addition to that other needs to act as a QEC hub managing communication with other systems, perhaps even clusters. (Side note: a mobile QEC hub might be a good idea, as planets can't escape from Reapers). 

Scenario:
in this scenario battle fleet is also a QEC hub.
Fleet with QEC hub is informed that planet X1 in system X is safe for supply fleet to arrive and fill their tankers(?) / load other supplies. Fleet send scout ships to system ahead. Scouts report that X1 is indeed safe. Supply fleet then moves into system. 

Meanwhile battle fleet has received information that single Reaper has been seen near planet Z2 in system Z. Battle fleet QEC:s other systems and planets in cluster and receives confirmation that there is only one Reaper detected. Battle fleet informs supply fleet that they are about to engage Reaper near Z2. Supply starts preparing for repairing damaged ships etc. but it doesn't reveal it's location to battle fleet because outcome of battle is not known and if Reaper wins, it may be able to salvage information from battle fleets systems.
Battle fleet engages Reaper on Z2's orbit. Battle fleet losses are awful as Reaper one shots fleets ships but with the aid from planets surface to orbit missile defenses Reaper is defeated and as it explodes remaining 10% of battle fleet QEC:s supply fleet, they need repairs, they need to relocate some of the ships crew into ships that has their hull intact, get wounded treated somewhere and so on.
Supply fleet informs battle fleet that they are currently located in X system near planet X1. Battle fleet starts to limping towards X1 before more Reapers appear. People on planet that helped defeating Reaper are doomed, but what remains of battle fleet lives to see another day.

Above scenario may not feel like it's much, but it's better than what Protheans had and something like this might be part that would make 404 scenario possible.

Edit: QEC and propaganda, maybe I post about that too on one day...

Modifié par ZLurps, 23 février 2011 - 10:28 .

[LordShrike]

@KenKenpachi:
So what you are getting is that you know better than BW writers? Maybe you do. Achievement unlocked.
You said you have a solution. To what? Condensed down all that comes to: "i know better, use destroyers." Use destroyers to what? I know that DEs are superior from DNs(IRL), So, What?
I fail to see how this reflects any way to current topic or the OP. If you were just laying down the work for your point, then please, continue.
Or, was this just argument for the arguments sake? Little clarification could help.
EDIT: Did not see the freight train there. Nice Ninja work Zlurps.

Modifié par LordShrike, 23 février 2011 - 10:31 .

[ZLurps]

I was about the post it but then I started reading about Quicksilver Express Couriers and uups... :-|

Modifié par ZLurps, 23 février 2011 - 10:41 .

[LordShrike]

@Zlurps:

That is indeed a fine strategical expansion to any fleet engagement. Few things to keep in mind: QECs both components must be constructed in single place. It is also noteworthy that such a thing violates rules of Space Time continuum(witch i'm guessing you pointed at before.)(It get nightmarish, don't ask.) And that it could be expensive in the extreme.(also requiring a VERY high tech lab.)

[ZLurps]

@LordShrike
Yes of course, but then, it's a matter of survival of all spacefaring life in the galaxy. If/when news about the Reapers spread around in galaxy public probably won't complain about the costs or QEC communications and even dreadnoughts.
What comes to sci-fi, yeah, it looks like QEC belongs in the realm of fiction.

Modifié par ZLurps, 23 février 2011 - 10:57 .