61 réponses à ce sujet

[Morgora]

I've played through the human noble female (HNF) twice.The first passthrough was not very satisfying as I was trying to learn game mechanics and made some bad choices, so I quit shortly after the Landsmeet. The second passthrough, I played all the way to the end. I just want to know if there is a happy ending for the Grey Warden and Alistair without some dubious way of achieving it. In my travels, I've found two disturbing options (1) If my HNF romances Alistair, Morrigan wants to conduct a ritual before the final battle. (2) If my HNF does not romance Alistair, Morrigan wants to bed Alistair. I did not select either option but, from what I understand, both lead to having the Archdemon's soul transferred into the unborn child because Morrigan wants an untainted Old God to be reborn. Is there truly no other way for Alistair and the Grey Warden to be together in the end?


Btw, I only have Origins; Warden's Peak and the Stone Prisoner DLC.

Modifié par Morgora, 10 février 2011 - 04:44 .

[bergklintmichael007]

...Nope

[mousestalker]

I'm afraid not.



You could always romance Zevran. He is not a Gray Warden, so Morrigan will never sleep with him.

[LobselVith8]

Alistair and the HNF can marry at the Landsmeet, and the Dark Ritual with Morrigan is the only way to save either of you from dying. I never saw the DR as evil, personally, but then again I did trust Morrigan. She wants to preserve the Old Gods from extinction, and the Archdemons are Old Gods who have been corrupted by darkspawn.

[M-Taylor]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Alistair and the HNF can marry at the Landsmeet, and the Dark Ritual with Morrigan is the only way to save either of you from dying. I never saw the DR as evil, personally, but then again I did trust Morrigan. She wants to preserve the Old Gods from extinction, and the Archdemons are Old Gods who have been corrupted by darkspawn.

The OP hasn't mentioned the morality of the Dark Ritual. By the sounds of it, s/he has a problem with Alistair having to sleep with Morrigan to achieve the God Baby. (I think anywho xD)

I just try and ignore it. I mean, you can gather that Alistair can't stand Morrigan, so it's not like he desired it. If he does it, he does it because he wants you both to survive.. so it's not too bad, I guess. >.>

[ejoslin]

I like comparing the endings of the game regarding the romances and just dealing with the tradeoffs.



If you're going to spend the rest of your life with Alistair, the tradeoff is, ritual with morrigan (whether he's king and you jump through those hoops, or if he's a gray warden).



Before Witch Hunt, I think the male warden in love with Morrigan doing the ritual was a hell of a lot worse. You either make a child with the woman you love, knowing you'll never see her or your child again, or you don't, and you never see her again. Witch Hunt softens the blow a lot, but it's still, at the time, without metagaming, a horrible decision.

[ejoslin]

kya169 wrote...

Morgora wrote...

I've played through the human noble female (HNF) twice.The first passthrough was not very satisfying as I was trying to learn game mechanics and made some bad choices, so I quit shortly after the Landsmeet. The second passthrough, I played all the way to the end. I just want to know if there is a happy ending for the Grey Warden and Alistair without some dubious way of achieving it. In my travels, I've found two disturbing options (1) If my HNF romances Alistair, Morrigan wants to conduct a ritual before the final battle. (2) If my HNF does not romance Alistair, Morrigan wants to bed Alistair. I did not select either option but, from what I understand, both lead to having the Archdemon's soul transferred into the unborn child because Morrigan wants an untainted Old God to be reborn. Is there truly no other way for Alistair and the Grey Warden to be together in the end?


Btw, I only have Origins; Warden's Peak and the Stone Prisoner DLC.

Nope... sorry.  Unfortunately, Bioware hasnt yet really made a happy ending for the females....  We can only hope they rectify this in DA2

Well, I disagree with this!  My warden was very very happy with Zevran.  She ended Origins engaged to him, and as far as I know, travelled with him for awhile, then perhaps they went and took over the crows

I still don't think the dark ritual precludes a happy ending with Alistair.  That's not the ending of the romance -- it's what enables the romance to continue.  honestly, if me or my husband was going to die unless he had string free sex with a woman he didn't like (since we dont' have old gods, we just have to pretend here), I'd give him a bottle of wine and push him into the bedroom with her

[Morgora]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Alistair and the HNF can marry at the Landsmeet, and the Dark Ritual with Morrigan is the only way to save either of you from dying. I never saw the DR as evil, personally, but then again I did trust Morrigan. She wants to preserve the Old Gods from extinction, and the Archdemons are Old Gods who have been corrupted by darkspawn.

My problem is definitely with the Dark Ritual. I don't know if it's "good" or "evil". I've been trying to figure out the lore but, it's very confusing.

[sylvanaerie]

I don't think it's either, it simply is. But I gathered from my convos with her both as male and female wardens, as a romance and as just a BFF, that she means Ferelden and the warden (and even Alistair or Loghain depending on who is with you at the time) no ill will from this. While I don't think she is being 100% honest I do believe that much at least. If you want your happy ending, you have to give Alistair up for one night, so you can have the rest of those tomorrows together. The Ritual is performed and both wardens make it to the end for the big party.

No one ever said love was easy but Bioware takes it to whole new levels of angst

[shatteredstar56]

sylvanaerie wrote...
No one ever said love was easy but Bioware takes it to whole new levels of angst

This. 
Loving Morrigan means she'll leave you, either with child or not. There goes your new family.
Loving Zevran is pretty happy, if you can convince Alister to do the DR. It'll be sad when he outlives the Warden though.
Loving Leliana and persuading Alister is happy, until she outlives you.
Loving Alister is happy if you consider the DR only a ritual with no consequences, which is what I did.  It's ironic how Alister hated being a bastard and tried to hide it, but to be with his love and happy, he has to create one.

[LobselVith8]

Morgora wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Alistair and the HNF can marry at the Landsmeet, and the Dark Ritual with Morrigan is the only way to save either of you from dying. I never saw the DR as evil, personally, but then again I did trust Morrigan. She wants to preserve the Old Gods from extinction, and the Archdemons are Old Gods who have been corrupted by darkspawn.

My problem is definitely with the Dark Ritual. I don't know if it's "good" or "evil". I've been trying to figure out the lore but, it's very confusing.

There's a lot we're not told about it, and I think we're supposed to figure out for ourselves how we view it. The Chantry basically labels magic as a curse, so it's a biased opinion. I never saw the dark ritual as evil since my character romanced Morrigan and it was about saving his life, as well as preserving one of the last mysteries of the world from oblivion. There's nothing in Origins or Witch Hunt that leads me to believe that there's any dark purpose behind the Old God Baby. I figure it's a "dark ritual" because it involves old magic that some might see as blood magic and it's performed at night.

There's a scene that was never done (but was written by Gaider and drawn by Aimo) that dealt with the fact that Morrigan is making this offer because she cares about the Warden - either as a friend or a love interest (if you're on good terms with her, I'd assume). I believe Gaider even mentioned that Morrigan thought the other Orlesian Wardens would arrive and didn't think she'd have to do the ritual in the first place. You can see the "missing scene" that Gaider planned for the DR here.

[Shinobu]

Morgora wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Alistair and the HNF can marry at the Landsmeet, and the Dark Ritual with Morrigan is the only way to save either of you from dying. I never saw the DR as evil, personally, but then again I did trust Morrigan. She wants to preserve the Old Gods from extinction, and the Archdemons are Old Gods who have been corrupted by darkspawn.

My problem is definitely with the Dark Ritual. I don't know if it's "good" or "evil". I've been trying to figure out the lore but, it's very confusing.

I think the point is that we're not supposed to know until it's too late. All of us had to make the decision without knowing what the ramifications would be. The Old God Baby will be a very powerful entity whether good or evil. Do whatever your character thinks is best. Probably most Lawful Good-style characters would choose to forgo the ritual. It sucks to be good, sometimes. My canon character did trust Morrigan and went through with the ritual, but could wind up regretting that, for sure. I'm quite disturbed by the "omitted scene," (that I saw after my playthrough) because if Morri isn't as on board with the ritual as I thought it must actually be pretty bad. (I believe by "something terrible" she is not referring to "sleeping with her friend's lover" because I don't think that would bother her. So it either must be that the ritual itself results in something bad or "best case scenario" she has reservations because Maric is her father. )

Edit: Crosspost with LobselVith8

Modifié par Shinobu, 10 février 2011 - 07:28 .

[Morgora]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Morgora wrote...
My problem is definitely with the Dark Ritual. I don't know if it's "good" or "evil". I've been trying to figure out the lore but, it's very confusing.

There's a lot we're not told about it, and I think we're supposed to figure out for ourselves how we view it. The Chantry basically labels magic as a curse, so it's a biased opinion. I never saw the dark ritual as evil since my character romanced Morrigan and it was about saving his life, as well as preserving one of the last mysteries of the world from oblivion. There's nothing in Origins or Witch Hunt that leads me to believe that there's any dark purpose behind the Old God Baby. I figure it's a "dark ritual" because it involves old magic that some might see as blood magic and it's performed at night.

There's a scene that was never done (but was written by Gaider and drawn by Aimo) that dealt with the fact that Morrigan is making this offer because she cares about the Warden - either as a friend or a love interest (if you're on good terms with her, I'd assume). I believe Gaider even mentioned that Morrigan thought the other Orlesian Wardens would arrive and didn't think she'd have to do the ritual in the first place. You can see the "missing scene" that Gaider planned for the DR here.

Gah! "If asking a friend to do something terrible might help, would you do it?" This opens up more questions than it answers! But, it does seem like Morrigan had second thoughts about performing the ritual. Thanks for the link.

Modifié par Morgora, 10 février 2011 - 07:38 .

[Morgora]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I don't think it's either, it simply is. But I gathered from my convos with her both as male and female wardens, as a romance and as just a BFF, that she means Ferelden and the warden (and even Alistair or Loghain depending on who is with you at the time) no ill will from this. While I don't think she is being 100% honest I do believe that much at least. If you want your happy ending, you have to give Alistair up for one night, so you can have the rest of those tomorrows together. The Ritual is performed and both wardens make it to the end for the big party.
No one ever said love was easy but Bioware takes it to whole new levels of angst

My character (HNF) did trust Morrigan (or at least gave her the benefit of the doubt). When I asked Morrigan about the ritual, I had the choice of sleeping with Alistair or having Morrigan sleep with Alistair. I did not take either option. However, the one thing that I found curious when questioning Morrigan is that she told my character that performing the ritual is the reason why Flemeth had sent Morrigan with my character.

[ejoslin]

Morgora wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I don't think it's either, it simply is. But I gathered from my convos with her both as male and female wardens, as a romance and as just a BFF, that she means Ferelden and the warden (and even Alistair or Loghain depending on who is with you at the time) no ill will from this. While I don't think she is being 100% honest I do believe that much at least. If you want your happy ending, you have to give Alistair up for one night, so you can have the rest of those tomorrows together. The Ritual is performed and both wardens make it to the end for the big party.
No one ever said love was easy but Bioware takes it to whole new levels of angst

My character (HNF) did trust Morrigan (or at least gave her the benefit of the doubt). When I asked Morrigan about the ritual, I had the choice of sleeping with Alistair or having Morrigan sleep with Alistair. I did not take either option. However, the one thing that I found curious when questioning Morrigan is that she told my character that performing the ritual is the reason why Flemeth had sent Morrigan with my character.

no, the femwarden cannot perform the dark ritual with Alistair.  You have the choice of one of you dying, or talking Alistair (or Loghain as the case may be) into having sex with Morrigan.

I found it interesting as well, that from the start, this was what was wanted.  I really do wonder why.

[Morgora]

ejoslin wrote...

Morgora wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I don't think it's either, it simply is. But I gathered from my convos with her both as male and female wardens, as a romance and as just a BFF, that she means Ferelden and the warden (and even Alistair or Loghain depending on who is with you at the time) no ill will from this. While I don't think she is being 100% honest I do believe that much at least. If you want your happy ending, you have to give Alistair up for one night, so you can have the rest of those tomorrows together. The Ritual is performed and both wardens make it to the end for the big party.
No one ever said love was easy but Bioware takes it to whole new levels of angst

My character (HNF) did trust Morrigan (or at least gave her the benefit of the doubt). When I asked Morrigan about the ritual, I had the choice of sleeping with Alistair or having Morrigan sleep with Alistair. I did not take either option. However, the one thing that I found curious when questioning Morrigan is that she told my character that performing the ritual is the reason why Flemeth had sent Morrigan with my character.

no, the femwarden cannot perform the dark ritual with Alistair.  You have the choice of one of you dying, or talking Alistair (or Loghain as the case may be) into having sex with Morrigan.

I found it interesting as well, that from the start, this was what was wanted.  I really do wonder why.

Hmm. I remember Morrigan wanting to perform the ritual with me, which I thought was strange as I had not slept with Alistair and we (meaning Alistair and my character) were not in a relationship. And, Morrigan and I were on Friendly terms. Of course, I could be misremembering events.

Modifié par Morgora, 10 février 2011 - 08:21 .

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

kya169 wrote...

Morgora wrote...

I've played through the human noble female (HNF) twice.The first passthrough was not very satisfying as I was trying to learn game mechanics and made some bad choices, so I quit shortly after the Landsmeet. The second passthrough, I played all the way to the end. I just want to know if there is a happy ending for the Grey Warden and Alistair without some dubious way of achieving it. In my travels, I've found two disturbing options (1) If my HNF romances Alistair, Morrigan wants to conduct a ritual before the final battle. (2) If my HNF does not romance Alistair, Morrigan wants to bed Alistair. I did not select either option but, from what I understand, both lead to having the Archdemon's soul transferred into the unborn child because Morrigan wants an untainted Old God to be reborn. Is there truly no other way for Alistair and the Grey Warden to be together in the end?


Btw, I only have Origins; Warden's Peak and the Stone Prisoner DLC.

Nope... sorry.  Unfortunately, Bioware hasnt yet really made a happy ending for the females....  We can only hope they rectify this in DA2

Well, I disagree with this!  My warden was very very happy with Zevran.  She ended Origins engaged to him, and as far as I know, travelled with him for awhile, then perhaps they went and took over the crows

I still don't think the dark ritual precludes a happy ending with Alistair.  That's not the ending of the romance -- it's what enables the romance to continue.  honestly, if me or my husband was going to die unless he had string free sex with a woman he didn't like (since we dont' have old gods, we just have to pretend here), I'd give him a bottle of wine and push him into the bedroom with her

I disagree, too. I thought the ending for Alistair and the HNF (when she marries him) was very happy. If I'd had to use coercion to get Alistair to agree to the ritual, I wouldn't have done it, and I actually care a lot more about the fact that he would prefer not to do it a lot more of a worry than that he's sleeping with Morrigan. If that's what it takes to keep him alive, then that's what it take. Thank you, Morrigan! I'm not the least bit sure that the god baby is a bad thing. And damn, it's going to be pretty.

Modifié par errant_knight, 10 février 2011 - 09:32 .

[Morgora]

I just had a thought. What if I played a Dalish Female? The throne goes to Anora. Alistair and the Dalish Female remain as Grey Wardens only. Is it too much to assume that the Dalish would not object to the Dark Ritual (since they do worship the Old Gods)?

[frostajulie]

Don't the Dalish worship the creators not the old Gods who are actually dragons worshiped by the Tevinter imperium? or are they the same

[Morgora]

frostajulie wrote...

Don't the Dalish worship the creators not the old Gods who are actually dragons worshiped by the Tevinter imperium? or are they the same

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Are the "old elven gods" the same as the "Old Gods"? I'm so confused.

[ejoslin]

Morgora wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Morgora wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I don't think it's either, it simply is. But I gathered from my convos with her both as male and female wardens, as a romance and as just a BFF, that she means Ferelden and the warden (and even Alistair or Loghain depending on who is with you at the time) no ill will from this. While I don't think she is being 100% honest I do believe that much at least. If you want your happy ending, you have to give Alistair up for one night, so you can have the rest of those tomorrows together. The Ritual is performed and both wardens make it to the end for the big party.
No one ever said love was easy but Bioware takes it to whole new levels of angst

My character (HNF) did trust Morrigan (or at least gave her the benefit of the doubt). When I asked Morrigan about the ritual, I had the choice of sleeping with Alistair or having Morrigan sleep with Alistair. I did not take either option. However, the one thing that I found curious when questioning Morrigan is that she told my character that performing the ritual is the reason why Flemeth had sent Morrigan with my character.

no, the femwarden cannot perform the dark ritual with Alistair.  You have the choice of one of you dying, or talking Alistair (or Loghain as the case may be) into having sex with Morrigan.

I found it interesting as well, that from the start, this was what was wanted.  I really do wonder why.

Hmm. I remember Morrigan wanting to perform the ritual with me, which I thought was strange as I had not slept with Alistair and we (meaning Alistair and my character) were not in a relationship. And, Morrigan and I were on Friendly terms. Of course, I could be misremembering events.

Male wardens can do the ritual with Morrigan.  Female wardens have to talk Alistair or Loghain into it.  Morrigan will NOT perform the ritual so the femwarden will get pregnant.  That's never an option.

[sylvanaerie]

Morgora wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

Don't the Dalish worship the creators not the old Gods who are actually dragons worshiped by the Tevinter imperium? or are they the same

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Are the "old elven gods" the same as the "Old Gods"? I'm so confused.

Dalish worship "the Creators". Not sure the game has ever said exactly what they are supposed to be but I could be wrong.  Tevinters worshiped the dragons and called them "the Old Gods".  I don't know if the dragon soul Morrigan wants to preserve is good or bad but i think Urthemiel was the Tevinter god of (was it Beauty?)  She doesn't want a corrupted baby, she wants the old soul as it was. 
Personally I think Flemeth sent her out to do this because Flemeth is an "old god" herself and might be trying to save her mate maybe? Yea just tossing that in from left field... Esp since the OGB turns out to be a boy, it adds more weight in my head to that hypothesis.

[Xilizhra]

Nope... sorry. Unfortunately, Bioware hasnt yet really made a happy ending for the females.... We can only hope they rectify this in DA2

A female Warden can have a happy ending by romancing Leliana or Zevran.

[sylvanaerie]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nope... sorry. Unfortunately, Bioware hasnt yet really made a happy ending for the females.... We can only hope they rectify this in DA2

A female Warden can have a happy ending by romancing Leliana or Zevran.

I consider my endings with Alistair to be mostly happy as mistress, Queen with him or as wandering GW's.  My canon breaks up with him after the Landsmeet but since she defeats the Blight and they all live I consider that a happy ending too.  Who says you have to have a romance anyway?  Heck I like to pretend he and my dalish ran off to Orlais to eat cake and live in sin  since she tells Eamon to stuff it, puts Anora solo on the throne and gets to be happy with Alistair and her 'new clan' of GW's.  My canon ends up with Teagan in my fic but she and Al stay friends.