243 réponses à ce sujet

[spernus]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

The morality in The Witcher seemed pretty black and white to me. It offered a gray path, but few decisions struck me as muddled in ethical questions as they oft imply.

Still a good game, and I'm still looking forward to both.

The generic fantasy world comment seems like an unneccessary swipe at Bioware's artists, though.  A few of the comments from CD Projekt give me the impression they could use a lesson in professional courtesy.  But it's not really my place to call them out for such things.

I'm gonna side with CD Projekt when it come to Bioware artists.Nowhere good enough for an AAA developer,especially the Dragon age artists.ME team is more talented overall and the art is really good in ME2. DA on the other hand is the perfect example of bland and uninspired.It's not good when the artists are struggling so hard to come up with an unique style.Just a proof that they lack the natural talent/instinct to generate their own style on their own.

[MerinTB]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

TW2 is probably objectively the better with the graphics, sure.

I don't like how it looks, though.

Granted, I'm not a big fan of the art style for DA2 either, so this is just kind of a funny argument to me.

On the technical side, yeah, The Witcher's graphics are more advanced. But DAII is artistically better, I think. Kirkwall looks maginificent to me.

I'm pretty much with you.  Artistically I prefer how DA2 looks to TW2.  I'm not enthusiastic about DA2's art, though.

Who knows - once I'm playing it may well grow on me.

I'm so far outside of the whole "The Witcher" phenomenom that I sometimes feel like Witcher fans speak a different language.

[Drizzt ORierdan]

I dont know why people take so "defensive" stans... CDProject Devs are entitled to have an opinion. Its not that they are talkiing **** about Bioware ALL THE TIME. You certainly can see also that PC GAMER was pushing for a "controversial" quote out of context.

One thing I really cherish is CDPs relationship with their community. They are a vey small company, yet they have released FREE OF CHARGE an enhanced version of their previous game (The Witcher1) and DLC (two minor Witcher adventures). 

At the same time, we are still waiting that our friends at Bioware fix the many bugs of Origins, while they sell us crap (Witchhunt) for good money... Yeah... thats R-E-S-P-E-C-T 101.  Hey, but its OK, 'cause they ar polite while doing it.

Modifié par Drizzt ORierdan, 10 février 2011 - 09:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I really wish they had improved DA2's graphics a bit more.

[Cuthlan]

Zunger wrote...

That part about Chapter 4 of The Witcher is quite true. What I really enjoyed about The Witcher is how much the choices matter and that you can't just reload to make another choice. 

That is what really cheapened Dragon Age for me. I side with Templars to get the achievement, then I reload and side with Mages. The worst thing is that it takes me five minutes, while in Witcher it would be at least 2-3 hours.

...so your style of deliberately immersion-breaking play cheapened Dragon Age?

And that is a fault of Dragon Age?

[Amyntas]

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...
And the "push a button and something awesome happens" super fast, blow up everyone you hit, "man, he's so BAD ASS" action is appealing to the mature player base how? Don't fool yourself. DA2 is directed at that same teen/X-Bro player base.

That's my biggest fear about DA2. DA:O had horrible advertising as well, but it turned out alright. So I'm giving Bioware the benefit of the doubt.

[Nerevar-as]

Zunger wrote...

Captain Sassy Pants wrote...


And, DA:O was pretty black and white. It's already been spelled out here (kill the boy, kill his mom, or, wait while I go clear a tower and come back to save the day). What was black and white about siding with either genocidal humans, or women and children murdering elven/dwarven rebels, or try to stay out of it and letting the world consume itself? Seriously, play the game, or at least do a modicum of research before spewing ignorant filth about something you know nothing about.

That part about Chapter 4 of The Witcher is quite true. What I really enjoyed about The Witcher is how much the choices matter and that you can't just reload to make another choice. 

That is what really cheapened Dragon Age for me. I side with Templars to get the achievement, then I reload and side with Mages. The worst thing is that it takes me five minutes, while in Witcher it would be at least 2-3 hours.

I thought that was the point with the framed narrative, you see the consequences later than the usual 5 minutes margin games usually have. Something I hope not to see again is something like Jade Empire: the choice for the main ending was about 30 minutes before endgame. So much for alignment

[Haristo]

spernus wrote...

DA on the other hand is the perfect example of bland and uninspired.It's not good when the artists are struggling so hard to come up with an unique style.Just a proof that they lack the natural talent/instinct to generate their own style on their own.

Uh... nah... very not. When I'm watching at the Witcher I feel like looking at a mixed The Elder's Scrolls and D&D ripoff... while Dragon Age is very Tolkien inspired, it has great original colours, feel very destroyed, very sad... the armours and the weapons are uninspired, fixed issue on DA2 and even on Awakening, the locations feel very cool, the world is complete, original...

[Catsith]

Saibh wrote...
He claims he's influenced a major triple A title with the use of sex scenes in his game. Patently false. Not just because BioWare has had sex in their games for a long time, but especially if you just look at the timeline.

Did he really say that? Wow. Didn't Mass Effect come out before the Witcher? And they used those godawful "sex cards" while ME used light romance scenes. 

They really need to put a muzzle on that guy.

[Dave of Canada]

Catsith wrote...

Did he really say that? Wow. Didn't Mass Effect come out before the Witcher? And they used those godawful "sex cards" while ME used light romance scenes. 

They really need to put a muzzle on that guy.

Saibh linked it a few pages back.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 10 février 2011 - 09:06 .

[John Epler]

I do admit to some curiosity as to why someone has to be on one side or the other of the 'lines in the sand' that many people seem to have drawn. Though I obviously won't get as much out of DA2 at launch as the rest of you folks, I'm still going to play it! And then, I'll probably pick up all the other RPGs that are coming out this year, and likely play the heck out of them, enjoying them all the way through.



As Mike said, it's a good year for people who like RPGs. Why anyone feels the need to deny themselves one of the games because they happen to be fans of another is beyond me. Obviously, this isn't the only reason why you wouldn't pick up a game - it may be that the game isn't to your taste, and that's fine. Ah well. Maybe I'm too close to everything to get it.

[mesmerizedish]

Catsith wrote...

Saibh wrote...
He claims he's influenced a major triple A title with the use of sex scenes in his game. Patently false. Not just because BioWare has had sex in their games for a long time, but especially if you just look at the timeline.

Did he really say that? Wow. Didn't Mass Effect come out before the Witcher? And they used those godawful "sex cards" while ME used light romance scenes. 

They really need to put a muzzle on that guy.

From what I've read about The Witcher, it's a lot of sex for the sake of sex, which is really kind of infantile. The sex cards are a huge indicator of that.

[Saibh]

Catsith wrote...

Saibh wrote...
He claims he's influenced a major triple A title with the use of sex scenes in his game. Patently false. Not just because BioWare has had sex in their games for a long time, but especially if you just look at the timeline.

Did he really say that? Wow. Didn't Mass Effect come out before the Witcher? And they used those godawful "sex cards" while ME used light romance scenes. 

They really need to put a muzzle on that guy.

Eurogamer: A lot of RPG games these days deal in choice and consequence. What do you think are the best examples in the genre at the moment and how does The Witcher 2 improve upon what's come before?

Jan Bartkowicz: I like how BioWare approaches the subject sometimes. I was a fan of Knights of the Old Republic - I loved the way there were just a few choices but they had really big consequences. I think it's impossible to create a game that has tons of choices and great consequences because at the time you're basically creating five games at the same time, and there's no point doing that.

I think we're not really that much influenced by other games if we're talking about just telling the story. I think it's hard to compare The Witcher with specific other games. But I think The Witcher 1 made some really big steps in this department, and there are some games out there right now that are pretty much influenced by The Witcher, so we're hoping to head down that road further.

Eurogamer: Which games do you think are influenced by The Witcher?

Jan Bartkowicz: Okay, er... [laughs]

Eurogamer: You said it!

Jan Bartkowicz: This is going to be bold, right, but I think Mass Effect was and Dragon Age was for sure, because we made some things that weren't really that popular in RPGs at the time. For example, erotic themes in RPG games - it's still really difficult to handle. You see games running into clichéd areas when doing erotic content. It's hard to do them as a believable thing because the player's always trying to find the hidden mechanism behind it so it will be easy to show. Mass Effect has its way to do this and I think Dragon Age was bolder than that too. So I think Witcher was an important factor in this department.

Also in the choice-and-consequence department. Dragon Age really was influenced by us and that's great, because it's a genre that doesn't have that many games and it's not like that serious a competition, because at the end of the day if you're an RPG player you're not going to get that many games, so you're not considering, "Is it going to be Fallout 3 for me or The Witcher?" You're probably going to play both. It's not like Bad Company or Modern Warfare where you're playing through the whole year. That's why I think our little RPG genre family is more tight, because we're not looking at each other thinking, "Argh, they're going to steal our gamers!"

Feel the arrogance.

[NinjaRogue]

scyphozoa wrote...

XX55XX wrote...
The Witcher is far more unique in terms of setting because it draws heavily from Eastern European mythology, and not from Western conventions of epic fantasy (Lord of the Rings, etc.). Okay, so it was based on a series of books, but the source material is quite original in that respect.

See, this I don't understand or at the least, agree with. I only played the first 3-4 hours of TW1 because, like Yahtzee, I wasn't having fun. What I did see of the game's lore, I thought was just as classical and traditional as DAO/LOTRO/D&D lore. I didn't know why he made that comment about the lore, I don't think it has any merit.

Personally, I find his whole statement is just a bit juvenile. Most developers treat each other with respect and civility, trying to promote your own product at the expense of another product is in poor taste. just imo.

I agree with you there. 

[mesmerizedish]

JohnEpler wrote...

I do admit to some curiosity as to why someone has to be on one side or the other of the 'lines in the sand' that many people seem to have drawn. Though I obviously won't get as much out of DA2 at launch as the rest of you folks, I'm still going to play it! And then, I'll probably pick up all the other RPGs that are coming out this year, and likely play the heck out of them, enjoying them all the way through.

As Mike said, it's a good year for people who like RPGs. Why anyone feels the need to deny themselves one of the games because they happen to be fans of another is beyond me. Obviously, this isn't the only reason why you wouldn't pick up a game - it may be that the game isn't to your taste, and that's fine. Ah well. Maybe I'm too close to everything to get it.

Mr. Epler, I don't know how you expect anyone to take your post seriously. You didn't swear once!

[Aeryn-Sun]

I like what I've seen of both of them, and look forward to playing both of them. Simple.

[JigPig]

I couldn't stand The Witcher's gameplay, characters, story, setting, and "sex scenes"



Other than that everything else was fine.

[Nerevar-as]

scyphozoa wrote...

XX55XX wrote...
The Witcher is far more unique in terms of setting because it draws heavily from Eastern European mythology, and not from Western conventions of epic fantasy (Lord of the Rings, etc.). Okay, so it was based on a series of books, but the source material is quite original in that respect.

See, this I don't understand or at the least, agree with. I only played the first 3-4 hours of TW1 because, like Yahtzee, I wasn't having fun. What I did see of the game's lore, I thought was just as classical and traditional as DAO/LOTRO/D&D lore. I didn't know why he made that comment about the lore, I don't think it has any merit.

A main disadvantage TW has is that it was made by and for the book fans. You see generic, but I saw the world coming alive, and it kept going. Sapkowski has his own style, and you can see it gradually in the game. DA tries to go for DF, but ultimately falls short.

[Isaidlunch]

Slidell505 wrote...

Kazanth wrote...

I'd prefer if he wanted to make his game look good that he didn't pretend DA:O was something it wasn't. Pretending DA:O was black and white? Really?

Well, it was. All the choices that could have been grey had a third everyone lives happily ever after option. Also the man speaks the truth, TW2's graphics are great. DA2s are, average at best.

That's not true at all. Architect? Dark Ritual? Hardening Leliana? Loghain's fate? Who to make ruler of Ferelden? Anvil of the Void (some might disagree with me on this one)? Quite a lot of choices were ruined by the third option without any effort involved, I agree with that, just like I agree that The Witcher probably did have more complex choices. But DA:O was not completely black and white like the Witcher dev likes to pretend it was.

[lionsfan208]

JohnEpler wrote...

I do admit to some curiosity as to why someone has to be on one side or the other of the 'lines in the sand' that many people seem to have drawn. Though I obviously won't get as much out of DA2 at launch as the rest of you folks, I'm still going to play it! And then, I'll probably pick up all the other RPGs that are coming out this year, and likely play the heck out of them, enjoying them all the way through.

As Mike said, it's a good year for people who like RPGs. Why anyone feels the need to deny themselves one of the games because they happen to be fans of another is beyond me. Obviously, this isn't the only reason why you wouldn't pick up a game - it may be that the game isn't to your taste, and that's fine. Ah well. Maybe I'm too close to everything to get it.

1000 times this ^^^^^^^^^^

[spernus]

XX55XX wrote...

Honestly, as much as I like Dragon Age, I have to agree with this guy.

The Witcher is far more unique in terms of setting because it draws heavily from Eastern European mythology, and not from Western conventions of epic fantasy (Lord of the Rings, etc.). Okay, so it was based on a series of books, but the source material is quite original in that respect.

Dragon Age's world, while it has its own flair, is much less detailed than the world of The Witcher and draws too heavily from stuff like A Song of Fire and Ice, Wheel of Time, and of course, Lord of the Rings. BioWare might have done better in this department had they looked to other sources instead, like Aztec or Maya mythology, perhaps?

As for the moral choices, BioWare has been improving in this aspect, but quite frankly, the choices in Dragon Age have zero bearing on gameplay considerations later, unlike The Witcher, where choices you make over the course of the game do have a bearing on gameplay considerations later.

BioWare has much to learn from CD Projeckt, in my opinion. I am surprised by the number of people stiffing CD Projeckt on this one - honestly, The Witcher is one of the best games I have ever played and this producer certainly has many valid points of criticism.

I have both Dragon Age 2 and The Witcher 2 pre-ordered, and I personally think that The Witcher 2 will be better in my book. Not to say that I won't enjoy Dragon Age 2 any less, though.

I agree,The Witcher 2 will be the better game imo. :innocent: The Dragon age team isn't the best among Bioware,as I personally consider the ME to be the most complete.You sure didn't see a redesign of the art style in ME2,but rather a refinement.

As for learning from CD Projekt,I disagree.Bioware could easily pull off choices and consequences which greatly impact further outcome and they even played The Witcher,but they prefer a simplistic approach (which won't frustrate or confuse the casual gamers who might feel punished for a "wrong" choice they made).It's all about making mass market rpg for the masses.

[Addai]

I agree with what they say, at least about the graphics and art style, but talking smack= not cool. Sell your game on its own merits and otherwise be professional and low-key about others.

[SkyWard20]

this will cause a huge s-storm

[Nerevar-as]

JohnEpler wrote...

I do admit to some curiosity as to why someone has to be on one side or the other of the 'lines in the sand' that many people seem to have drawn. Though I obviously won't get as much out of DA2 at launch as the rest of you folks, I'm still going to play it! And then, I'll probably pick up all the other RPGs that are coming out this year, and likely play the heck out of them, enjoying them all the way through.

As Mike said, it's a good year for people who like RPGs. Why anyone feels the need to deny themselves one of the games because they happen to be fans of another is beyond me. Obviously, this isn't the only reason why you wouldn't pick up a game - it may be that the game isn't to your taste, and that's fine. Ah well. Maybe I'm too close to everything to get it.

It happens in sports, movies,comics,... why not in video games?