461 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

Lumikki wrote...

Are you sure, how about LARP's?

Yes, you can play role in many of those games, but you can't play multible different roles? In those games it's just one role. RPG is pretty much only gendre what provide multible roles for player to play as choise.

Mario well rounded, plumber who saves the alternate universe world iin the pipes.
Luigi, marios brother, jumps higher than mario but not further, helps Marios out both in plumbing and world saving.
Princess Peach, princess of the pipe world whatever it is called, jumps short and not as high but she can drift on her unbrella for a great distance. 

There are multiple roles and you can play all of them in the game. 

Now I have an urge to watch the super mario brothers super show. Which I think is on netflix instant. 

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

No he is The Witcher, and its up to the player to develop his skills in several ways as the character levels. You should try it although The Witcher 2 is almost out too.

If those skill allows different roles to be played with character, then it's RPG, if not, then it's just adventure game.

[Ahglock]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

No he is The Witcher, and its up to the player to develop his skills in several ways as the character levels. You should try it although The Witcher 2 is almost out too.

If those skill allows different roles to be played with character, then it's RPG, if not, then it's just adventure game.

I'm guessing we are not communicating with each other correctly, in that I suspect you mean something other than what we are thinking when we read your posts. 

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

No he is The Witcher, and its up to the player to develop his skills in several ways as the character levels. You should try it although The Witcher 2 is almost out too.

If those skill allows different roles to be played with character, then it's RPG, if not, then it's just adventure game.

Again from your link.

"Role-playing games also include single-player offline role-playing video games in which players control a character or team who undertake quests, and whose capabilities advance using statistical"

You can play one role and its still an RPG even by definition c´mon!!!

[Lumikki]

Ahglock wrote...

I'm guessing we are not communicating with each other correctly, in that I suspect you mean something other than what we are thinking when we read your posts. 

Could be, I have sometimes problems with my english. Why you say we have problem then?

Because I did not define how the different roles can be arrived? I did not define it, because there is allways more then one way to do it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 février 2011 - 12:32 .

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

"Role-playing games also include single-player offline role-playing video games in which players control a character or team who undertake quests, and whose capabilities advance using statistical"

You can play one role and its still an RPG even by definition c´mon!!!

What makes the game any different from adventure or strategy game?

Role-playing isn't about controlling character like playing with doll. Role-playing is taking role of what that doll is and role-playing it. As for the AI controlled npcs in same game, they are irrelevant.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 février 2011 - 12:35 .

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

"Role-playing games also include single-player offline role-playing video games in which players control a character or team who undertake quests, and whose capabilities advance using statistical"

You can play one role and its still an RPG even by definition c´mon!!!

What makes the game any different from adventure or strategy game?

Role-playing isn't about controlling character like playing with doll. Role-playing is taking role of what that doll is and role-playing it. As for ther npcs as AI controlled in same game they are irrelevant.

I really didn´t understood what you meant there, in an RPG ok we role as a character, i think thats settled, that character interacts with the world and does quests, as he evolves he gains experience and so he levels, by leveling the character becomes stronger, his equipment improves as well as his skills, that´s basically it imho.

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

I really didn´t understood what you meant there, in an RPG ok we role as a character, i think thats settled, that character interacts with the world and does quests, as he evolves he gains experience and so he levels, by leveling the character becomes stronger, his equipment improves as well as his skills, that´s basically it imho.

Yes, that is how most role-playing games does it. How ever, interacting with enviroment and maybe exploring the world is pretty much requirement for RPG. How ever, what I have tryed to say, becoming stronger or improve equipment or maybe even skill isn't really neccassary for RPG. You could build RPG without them, just most of RPG doesn't because it's more "rewarding" for player have stronger progression. It's the difference what's required and what can make the RPG better.

Levels, experience all are artificial numbers, what has abolute nothing to do with RPG as defination. They are more like developers tools to control game character progressions in technical ways. There are possiblities to do RPG without them too. I have played role-player created mmorpg, where was no levels or experice or even combat. I have played mmopgs where was no items. Just because we see them in many RPG's doesn't mean there isn't other way to do stuff too. So, I try to find the main point what really defines RPG, not see it as technical structure as how RPG's are nowdays done.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 février 2011 - 12:54 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

Lumikki wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

What about tactical shooters, or army/shooter simulations? You can play multiple roles. But I've already said something similar.

No you can't play there different roles, you can use different equiment in same "character", but it's still same role. In tactical games, you don't really play role at all, you are controling something to make tactical choises. It's not playing the role, because you don't have "own" character at all.

Like Shepard you mean? Selecting through several pre-determined characters doesn't make any of them more you. Otherwise you'd agree with me.

From Wikipedia:

"Roles may be achieved or ascribed or they can be accidental in different situations. An achieved role is a position that a person assumes voluntarily which reflects personal skills, abilities, and effort. An ascribed role is a position assigned to individuals or groups without regard for merit but because of certain traits beyond their control, (Stark 2007), and is usually forced upon a person."

Roles have nothing to do with being you. I mean, you don't change the definition of something depending of the circumstances. A role is a role, be it in real life, in a game, in a role-playing game. You're just modifying a definition to your advantage. Anyway, I guess I don't even need to say this, as I really don't see how playing a tactical shooter, the character wouldn't be you. So let me ask you this, why are you more... "you" playing Morrowind than a tactical shooter? The difference, is that you play different roles in different settings. Just because you can choose things in more detail doesn't make playing one character more of a role. A role is a role. An RPG is a game in which you... play a role, you play someone that isn't you basically. Since you can have a societal role in real life -well everyone has a societal role, mine being a student, it's just that some are more defined than others, and some can have more than one role - an RPG (tabletop) basically means playing someone else than you.



Statistics are but a very useful way to show character progression. But thing is, take out the weak stats of ME2, and there's no character progression.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 17 février 2011 - 01:08 .

[Lumikki]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Like Shepard you mean? Selecting through several pre-determined characters doesn't make any of them more you. Otherwise you'd agree with me.

From Wikipedia:

"Roles may be achieved or ascribed or they can be accidental in different situations. An achieved role is a position that a person assumes voluntarily which reflects personal skills, abilities, and effort. An ascribed role is a position assigned to individuals or groups without regard for merit but because of certain traits beyond their control, (Stark 2007), and is usually forced upon a person."

Roles have nothing to do with being you. I mean, you don't change the definition of something depending of the circumstances. A role is a role, be it in real life, in a game, in a role-playing game. You're just modifying a definition to your advantage.



Statistics are but a very useful way to show character progression. But thing is, take out the weak stats of ME2, and there's no character progression.

You are now talking defination of role what is alot wider consept that word role talked here. We are talking player taking role as like actor acting something different than him/her self, like becoming someone else.

As for Shepard, there is 6 different classes, player can have different attitude and even do little bit customation in "skills". I think that is enough to say player has ability take different roles.

PS: There is even character progression in ME2, even if it's weak one and you know it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 février 2011 - 01:09 .

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

I really didn´t understood what you meant there, in an RPG ok we role as a character, i think thats settled, that character interacts with the world and does quests, as he evolves he gains experience and so he levels, by leveling the character becomes stronger, his equipment improves as well as his skills, that´s basically it imho.

Yes, that is how most role-playing games does it. How ever, interacting with enviroment and maybe exploring the world is pretty much requirement for RPG. How ever, what I have tryed to say, becoming stronger or improve equipment or maybe even skill isn't really neccassary for RPG. You could build RPG without them, just most of RPG doesn't because it's more "rewarding" for player have stronger progression. It's the difference what's required and what can make the RPG better.

Levels, experience all are artificial numbers, what has abolute nothing to do with RPG as defination. They are more like developers tools to control game character progressions in technical ways. There are possiblities to do RPG without them too. I have played role-player created mmorpg, where was no levels or experice or even combat. I have played mmopgs where was no items. Just because we see them in many RPG's doesn't mean there isn't other way to do stuff too. So, I try to find the main point what really defines RPG, not see it as technical structure as how RPG's are nowdays done.

Sorry if what defines an RPG is taken then its no longer an RPG, its an
action game or a shooter whatever, making an RPG without RPG elements is
just saying i want my game to be named an RPG by force when its not.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Lumikki wrote...

You are now talking defination of role what is alot wider consept that word role talked here. We are talking player taking role as like actor acting something different than him/her self, like becoming someone else.

As for Shepard, there is 6 different classes, player can have different attitude and even do little bit customation in "skills". I think that is enough to say player has ability take different roles.

A role, is a role. You're being silly. An RPG (tabletop) basically means playing someone else than you. Thing is, that's what you do in every video game, but not every video game are RPGs as far as I know. I play someone else in a tactical shooter. And being able to play different role means nothing too, you only play one per time anyway. I have no clue where you have found this thing. I could tell you that Mass Effect 2 isn't a real RPG since you play alone and you're the only one who contributes to the story.

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Lumikki wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Like Shepard you mean? Selecting through several pre-determined characters doesn't make any of them more you. Otherwise you'd agree with me.

From Wikipedia:

"Roles may be achieved or ascribed or they can be accidental in different situations. An achieved role is a position that a person assumes voluntarily which reflects personal skills, abilities, and effort. An ascribed role is a position assigned to individuals or groups without regard for merit but because of certain traits beyond their control, (Stark 2007), and is usually forced upon a person."

Roles have nothing to do with being you. I mean, you don't change the definition of something depending of the circumstances. A role is a role, be it in real life, in a game, in a role-playing game. You're just modifying a definition to your advantage.



Statistics are but a very useful way to show character progression. But thing is, take out the weak stats of ME2, and there's no character progression.

You are now talking defination of role what is alot wider consept that word role talked here. We are talking player taking role as like actor acting something different than him/her self, like becoming someone else.

As for Shepard, there is 6 different classes, player can have different attitude and even do little bit customation in "skills". I think that is enough to say player has ability take different roles.

PS: There is even character progression in ME2, even if it's weak one and you know it.

No you take one role, Shepard, thats it. The way how you play that role is a diferent story, in ME you play the role of Commander Shepard.

[Evil Johnny 666]

I know there is character progression in ME2, as you gain exp points.

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

No you take one role, Shepard, thats it. The way how you play that role is a diferent story, in ME you play the role of Commander Shepard.

Ahh, you mean that. Like in DAO you will be Warden?

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

No you take one role, Shepard, thats it. The way how you play that role is a diferent story, in ME you play the role of Commander Shepard.

Ahh, you mean that. Like in DAO you will be Warden?

Exactely, don´t mix roles with classes.

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

No you take one role, Shepard, thats it. The way how you play that role is a diferent story, in ME you play the role of Commander Shepard.

Ahh, you mean that. Like in DAO you will be Warden?

Exactely, don´t mix roles with classes.

There is not then easy way to say what I mean, because I can't use classes, talents, skills, attitudes, aligments, professions because not every RPG has those same stuff.


If I use "different kind of characters", is that good enough? And people understand character progression has nothing to do with it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 février 2011 - 01:32 .

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

No you take one role, Shepard, thats it. The way how you play that role is a diferent story, in ME you play the role of Commander Shepard.

Ahh, you mean that. Like in DAO you will be Warden?

Exactely, don´t mix roles with classes.

There is not then easy way to say what I mean, because I can't use classes, talents, skills, attitudes, aligments, professions because not every RPG has those same stuff.


If I use "different kind of characters", is that good enough? And people understand character progression has nothing to do with it.

Different kind of characters to play the same roles, Commander Shepard is still Commander Shepard if the player chooses other classes, its not like your different to the npc´s, same thing happens with the Warden, there might have been origin stories, but you still play the role of the Grey Warden.

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Different kind of characters to play the same roles, Commander Shepard is still Commander Shepard if the player chooses other classes, its not like your different to the npc´s, same thing happens with the Warden, there might have been origin stories, but you still play the role of the Grey Warden.

I was talking about definition what makes RPG different than any other game. In RPG you can choose to play different kind of characters. Is that better?

[MassEffect762]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

I know there is character progression in ME2, as you gain exp points.

Doesn't feel like it though imo.

The skills/abilities were all that reminded me of progress and even then it was lacking imo.


Lack of Health bar, armor/weapon/med/biotic mods and more "compact" skill trees gave me that impression.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 17 février 2011 - 01:56 .

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Different kind of characters to play the same roles, Commander Shepard is still Commander Shepard if the player chooses other classes, its not like your different to the npc´s, same thing happens with the Warden, there might have been origin stories, but you still play the role of the Grey Warden.

I was talking about definition what makes RPG different than any other game. In RPG you can choose to play different kind of characters. Is that better?

Different kinds of characters can be played in shooters, different look, different gear.. weapons, you name it, heck i can play Mortal Kombat and have a ton more, that´s not it.

[Lumikki]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I was talking about definition what makes RPG different than any other game. In RPG you can choose to play different kind of characters. Is that better?

Different kinds of characters can be played in shooters, different look, different gear.. weapons, you name it, heck i can play Mortal Kombat and have a ton more, that´s not it.

Items and cloths are not characters, they are items.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 février 2011 - 02:02 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

Lumikki wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I was talking about definition what makes RPG different than any other game. In RPG you can choose to play different kind of characters. Is that better?

Different kinds of characters can be played in shooters, different look, different gear.. weapons, you name it, heck i can play Mortal Kombat and have a ton more, that´s not it.

Items and cloths are not characters, they are items.

But they can define the character. A sniper won't be sporting an M16, will he?

[Lumikki]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Items and cloths are not characters, they are items.

But they can define the character. A sniper won't be sporting an M16, will he?

Hard to say, but tools and gear doesn't really define induvidual characters "abilities", it only defines they tools of actions. Meaning just because I have M16 in my hand, that doesn't define me as character to be soldier. I could be repair man who's just fixing the M16. So, items doesn't define character, it's "ability" use that items what define character.

Modifié par Lumikki, 17 février 2011 - 02:18 .