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[Hero11N7]

I'm working on my import playthrough for DA:O UE to DA2 and I'm wondering what I should do about Loghain, whos ruler and the dark ritual.

should I have a hardened Alistair rule alone? or with anora?

should I spare Loghain and have him sacrifice himself? or kill him and do the dark ritual with Morrigan? (since she's my characters LI)

If someone can answer soon, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

[errant_knight]

It depends on what kind of person your character is, how they feel about Alistair, the wardens, Duncan, the Theirin lineage etc. You need to give me more to go on here. I could tell you what I do, but your character may be nothing like my own. Details, please.

When I play a HNM, I put Alistair on the throne alone because he's my friend and I want him to have a chance at happiness and believe that he'll be the better ruler. I have him fight Loghain and kill him because I believe it's justiice as much as Alistair does, and because I want Alistair to take the lead in that so it's clear he isn't a puppet. And my PC does the DR with Morrigan to ensure that they both live and because the OGB might turn out to be a better thing than we think. And because it would be a really crappy way to lose one's virginity. But that's my character. Oh, and I always harden Alistair no matter what else I choose, because I think he should be able to believe in himself and stand up for what he wants in any situation.

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 février 2011 - 12:30 .

[Ferretinabun]

No such thing as 'should' in Dragon Age.

That's why I like it so much. Even Mass Effect has the Paragon/Renegade thing - which is just a thinly veiled good/bad meter.

But it you want the ending that turns out best for everyone, I'd GUESS:

Marry Anora to Alistair and spare Loghain. Alistair'll be annoyed with you, but that's a small price to pay in the long run.

The Dark Ritual is the tricky one, simply because we know nothing about it. I'm doing it for my cannon playthrough - but that's just because I want to see what it does. It's just a big red plot button saying 'Do not push'. Can't resist.

[errant_knight]

'Annoyed?' Heh. Wow. Understatement.

[Hero11N7]

Alistair is his best friend who he would give his life for; he believes the wardens are (at least for the most part) right about how alot must be sacrificed to stop the blight and embraces his duty as a grey warden; respected and admired Duncan for his strength to do what must be done and embraced him as his mentor, and would think it would be nice to keep the line of King Calenhad but does not consider it required.



Overall my warden is a idealistic yet fairly practical man who wants do to the best for others.

[errant_knight]

Hero11N7 wrote...

Alistair is his best friend who he would give his life for; he believes the wardens are (at least for the most part) right about how alot must be sacrificed to stop the blight and embraces his duty as a grey warden; respected and admired Duncan for his strength to do what must be done and embraced him as his mentor, and would think it would be nice to keep the line of King Calenhad but does not consider it required.

Overall my warden is a idealistic yet fairly practical man who wants do to the best for others.

How does he feel about the whole dark ritual thing?
 So far he sounds a lot like mine, but that might make a difference.
And how does he feel about Loghain leaving the field and his activities afterward? In other words, does he share Alistair's view?

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 février 2011 - 12:38 .

[Hero11N7]

hes unsure about the ritual, but its not because he doesn't trust morrigan but he wonders how the child may turn out. As for Loghain...my character believes that if Loghain wants to truly make up for what hes done then at least he'd be able to give him the benefit of the doubt and at most he'd believe he could make a fine warden, if he truly commits to it and does it right.

[Hero11N7]

sorry double post (for the first time too)

Modifié par Hero11N7, 11 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[errant_knight]

Hero11N7 wrote...

hes unsure about the ritual, but its not because he doesn't trust morrigan but he wonders how the child may turn out. As for Loghain...my character believes that if Loghain wants to truly make up for what hes done then at least he'd be able to give him the benefit of the doubt and at most he'd believe he could make a fine warden, if he truly commits to it and does it right.

Is he aware that in those conversations about bringing Loghain to justice, Alistair was talking about his death? Does he know that Alistair will take it as a betrayal, and if so, how does he feel about that?

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 février 2011 - 12:53 .

[MKDAWUSS]

If your HNM is marrying Anora it might be a good idea to spare Loghain.

[errant_knight]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

If your HNM is marrying Anora it might be a good idea to spare Loghain.

Actually, wouldn't matter either way as long as Alistair does the deed and he does the DR.

[HolyAvenger]

Depends on how you roleplay and who you romance I guess. My canon warden is a good HMN- romanced Leliana, hardened Ali + Anora ruling and Loghain redemption ending so no DR.

[Hero11N7]

errant_knight wrote...

Hero11N7 wrote...

hes unsure about the ritual, but its not because he doesn't trust morrigan but he wonders how the child may turn out. As for Loghain...my character believes that if Loghain wants to truly make up for what hes done then at least he'd be able to give him the benefit of the doubt and at most he'd believe he could make a fine warden, if he truly commits to it and does it right.

Is he aware that in those conversations about bringing Loghain to justice, Alistair was talking about his death? Does he know that Alistair will take it as a betrayal, and if so, how does he feel about that?

Yes he does know Alistair thinks justice should be served by killing Loghain. He believes it is very likely that Alistair will not like sparing Loghain, and he feels bad about it feeling somewhat like he is betraying him in some way and he does believe justice should be done.

[Hero11N7]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Depends on how you roleplay and who you romance I guess. My canon warden is a good HMN- romanced Leliana, hardened Ali + Anora ruling and Loghain redemption ending so no DR.

My character is a good HMN who romances Morrigan. In my opinion she make for a interesting story without the sort of fairytale happily ever after you get with Leliana (well until she outlives you). No offense towards Leliana meant I was actually originally gonna go with her but settled on Morrigan

[errant_knight]

Hero11N7 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Hero11N7 wrote...

hes unsure about the ritual, but its not because he doesn't trust morrigan but he wonders how the child may turn out. As for Loghain...my character believes that if Loghain wants to truly make up for what hes done then at least he'd be able to give him the benefit of the doubt and at most he'd believe he could make a fine warden, if he truly commits to it and does it right.

Is he aware that in those conversations about bringing Loghain to justice, Alistair was talking about his death? Does he know that Alistair will take it as a betrayal, and if so, how does he feel about that?

Yes he does know Alistair thinks justice should be served by killing Loghain. He believes it is very likely that Alistair will not like sparing Loghain, and he feels bad about it feeling somewhat like he is betraying him in some way and he does believe justice should be done.

Then to me, from a roleplaying perspective, this is where your decision about sparing Loghain lies, since you said that he and Alistair are the kind of friends who would die for each other. You need to figure out what's most important to your warden in this situation and how he can acheive that. Is sparing Loghain important enough to risk a possibly very bad reaction from Alistair? Is Alistair's friendship important enough to forgo an ending in which Loghain lives?

Your decision as to who should rule will probably evolve from that, although if you haven't hardened Alistair, your opitions will be more limited if you want things to go well for him.

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 février 2011 - 01:35 .

[HolyAvenger]

Hero11N7 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Depends on how you roleplay and who you romance I guess. My canon warden is a good HMN- romanced Leliana, hardened Ali + Anora ruling and Loghain redemption ending so no DR.

My character is a good HMN who romances Morrigan. In my opinion she make for a interesting story without the sort of fairytale happily ever after you get with Leliana (well until she outlives you). No offense towards Leliana meant I was actually originally gonna go with her but settled on Morrigan

Well understandably. I'm not sure I could romance Morrigan with a strictly good character frankly, they just wouldn't see eye-to-eye. Her approval got ridiculously low on that playthrough.

[Hero11N7]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Hero11N7 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Depends on how you roleplay and who you romance I guess. My canon warden is a good HMN- romanced Leliana, hardened Ali + Anora ruling and Loghain redemption ending so no DR.

My character is a good HMN who romances Morrigan. In my opinion she make for a interesting story without the sort of fairytale happily ever after you get with Leliana (well until she outlives you). No offense towards Leliana meant I was actually originally gonna go with her but settled on Morrigan

Well understandably. I'm not sure I could romance Morrigan with a strictly good character frankly, they just wouldn't see eye-to-eye.

And that's why. My Warden and Morrigan's contrasting world views make for a more interesting romance.
Also gifts and choosing your words carefully can make her easier to romance.

[Hero11N7]

errant_knight wrote...

Then to me, from a roleplaying perspective, this is where your decision about sparing Loghain lies, since you said that he and Alistair are the kind of friends who would die for each other. You need to figure out what's most important to your warden in this situation and how he can acheive that. Is sparing Loghain important enough to risk a possibly very bad reaction from Alistair? Is Alistair's friendship important enough to forgo an ending in which Loghain lives?

Your decision as to who should rule will probably evolve from that, although if you haven't hardened Alistair, your opitions will be more limited if you want things to go well for him.

And thats a hard choice for me. Either allow a man to redeem himself or keep your best friend and get some form of justice

[errant_knight]

Hero11N7 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Then to me, from a roleplaying perspective, this is where your decision about sparing Loghain lies, since you said that he and Alistair are the kind of friends who would die for each other. You need to figure out what's most important to your warden in this situation and how he can acheive that. Is sparing Loghain important enough to risk a possibly very bad reaction from Alistair? Is Alistair's friendship important enough to forgo an ending in which Loghain lives?

Your decision as to who should rule will probably evolve from that, although if you haven't hardened Alistair, your opitions will be more limited if you want things to go well for him.

And thats a hard choice for me. Either allow a man to redeem himself or keep your best friend and get some form of justice

I can see that, although it was the easiest decision in the game for me. Try this. Pretend that you just made one decision--close your eyes and imagine events playing out. Then do the same the opposite way. Odds are, one of those will make you feel not so good. Then you'll know.

Modifié par errant_knight, 11 février 2011 - 02:00 .

[Hero11N7]

I guess I could always save before the landsmeet and try everything out. and I (and my character in turn) would have to agree that the old god baby could turn out better than most would think, I guess it can be viewed as a leap of faith.

[Maugrim]

For me the best ending for a 'good' male human noble is to harden Alistair and then arrange his marriage to Anora. They compliment each other and Alistair takes his kingly responsibilities serious if hardened. Fight Loghain and spare him. This man is pretty much the only reason Fereldan is a free nation (read The Stolen Throne) he screwed up in so many ways during DAO but I always felt my HN would be very hesitant to strike down a man that is a legend. Presumably Bryce fought under him and would respect him at the very least.



Now the last thing to settle is the DR or not? For me all my characters trusted Morrigan. They were either her lover or came to view her as a sister. Also a fair number of them agree with her statement that "some things are worth preserving". If you decided to do the DR I've always preferred to impregnate Morrigan myself...it's wrong to ask Alistair/Loghain to do it if the Warden is male IMO. Loghain really has no interest and Alistair hates her and any child could be considered a bastard heir to the throne. If you decided not to do the DR feed Loghain to the Archdemon and help Alistair rule.



Well that's the way I see it anyways.

[Hero11N7]

@errant_knight: I must admit I am leaning to towards killing Loghain, but where does that leave me on who rules?

[errant_knight]

Hero11N7 wrote...

I guess I could always save before the landsmeet and try everything out. and I (and my character in turn) would have to agree that the old god baby could turn out better than most would think, I guess it can be viewed as a leap of faith.

I've always thought that Morrigan might have a point about preserving the old god's soul. And think of it this way, the kid is going to have Morrigan for a mom, Alistair/PC for a dad, and the soul of the god of beauty. This is going to be a very attractive guy. I think we'll see him again, whatever you pick, one way or another.  They simply won't be able to resist.

[errant_knight]

Hero11N7 wrote...

@errant_knight: I must admit I am leaning to towards killing Loghain, but where does that leave me on who rules?

What does your PC think are important qualities in a ruler?

[Hero11N7]

Being able to trust them to do the right thing is a start. They also need to be able to govern fairly.