93 réponses à ce sujet

[Rylor Tormtor]

colejossart wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

You can just watch my video on the first page. 2H tanking can ultimately take less damage then shield because you kill more enemies faster with AOE attacks. You can also minimize your disadvantages by constantly moving instead of standing in place.

For a tank who stands in place and takes damage, shield is ofcourse the best. If you wanna 2hand tank you have to stay mobile, use AOE attacks, or watch my video and read my guide to see how I do it personally.

I've made builds of 2H tanks that look a lot like yours on my own, but I just can't see it working out on Nightmare, especially w/o pausing.  I don't know if you're forgetting something, but Nightmare has a DEADLY Friendly Fire.  So if your DPS rogue gets too close and you use your awesome Cleave/Muscle/Tornado combo that will do OODLES of damage in a 7m circle, you'll kill your rogue straight off.

And while yes, your build could work against mobs (I'm still skeptical), what about bosses like the Highdragon?  There's no way you're going to take it out before it completely destroys you.

Another question is: How will you manage your party if you're completely focused on keeping your tank moving around?  What happens when your tank finally stops moving because you switched over to your mage for some emergency healing?  Or your rogue to set up a combo on a lieutenant.

So while I DO like 2H tanks for Normal, maybe even Hard, I don't think it's feasible on Nightmare because of friendly fire, massive boss damage/health, and the need to keep your tank on the move so he doesn't get powned?

But, he just DID do it on nightmare, in that video. Was it pretty? No. Is it feasible? Yes.

I think they should implement affection changes in your companions when you kill them; i.e. every time you kill Aveline, she gets a rivalry point for being pissed at you. Conversely, Varric will get a friendly point, since I am sure he finds it hilarious. 

[colejossart]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

animorphs reference? there was a tobias hawke in animorphs? and yea I guess Leon is a pretty overused name.

one name that I really liked using in Origins was my Dwarf Noble's name, my avatar. Meet noble Xanthos Aeducan! Also, I claim dibs on that name =P. you use it, a legion of ravenous killer monkeys shall appear at your doorstep and.... well it won't be pretty.

In Animorphs there was a kid who was permenantly morphed into a Red-Tail HAWKE.  His name was Tobias.

[Mad Method]

I always play DAO that way: Nightmare with No pausing. No injuries. No reloads. No AI tactics.

I'd say yes to the challenge but it will be a while until I get DA2. I'm a member of the wait-and-see for ultimate edition crowd.

Modifié par Mad Method, 03 mars 2011 - 12:02 .

[Sabresandiego]

colejossart wrote...

KallDay wrote...

There might not be any pausing, but there will be a whole heckuva lotta quickloading, and the painstaking working out of specific no-pause strats before hand for each tough fight.

@cole. Though other tanking strats might be available for the full game, the performance in the video posted relied on timing of movement and kiting; specifically: taking advantage of the new closing lunge attack and the boss' really slow melee animation. In a situation with snares, slows, roots, or fast ranged attacks, the strats would have to be a lot more sophisticated.

But it also relies on taking control of your tank constantly so he doesn't get powned.  Which means your mage might not cast the right spell, or the rogue isn't doing all the damage that it could be doing.

The way I play I control Hawke 95% of the time, and have ideal tactics setup for my party. If you plan your tactics out right, you dont have to manually control your party and can focus on Hawke. Im sure there are some battles which will be difficult to do without manually moving every character somewhere, but when I encounter that I will adapt.

[colejossart]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

colejossart wrote...
snip

But, he just DID do it on nightmare, in that video. Was it pretty? No. Is it feasible? Yes.

I think they should implement affection changes in your companions when you kill them; i.e. every time you kill Aveline, she gets a rivalry point for being pissed at you. Conversely, Varric will get a friendly point, since I am sure he finds it hilarious. 

He did it in a DEMO on a MODDED Nightmare not ready for release and not balanced like it will be in the full game.  Also, the fight against Hayder was ridiculously easy.  The Ogre was harder.  So no, I'm not convinced.  He posts a video of Nightmare difficulty w/o pausing and using a 2H tank against the High Dragon I'll believe.

[KallDay]

colejossart wrote...

But it also relies on taking control of your tank constantly so he doesn't get powned.  Which means your mage might not cast the right spell, or the rogue isn't doing all the damage that it could be doing.

Right. Part of this challenge is the crafting of optimal tactics lists for your companions. And, as I hinted at earlier, for the more difficult fights the tactics lists will have to be specially constructed. Still, within the structure of the challenge high APM switching among party memebers is allowed. But the key will come down to preset tactics, methinks.

[colejossart]

Sabresandiego wrote...

colejossart wrote...

KallDay wrote...

There might not be any pausing, but there will be a whole heckuva lotta quickloading, and the painstaking working out of specific no-pause strats before hand for each tough fight.

@cole. Though other tanking strats might be available for the full game, the performance in the video posted relied on timing of movement and kiting; specifically: taking advantage of the new closing lunge attack and the boss' really slow melee animation. In a situation with snares, slows, roots, or fast ranged attacks, the strats would have to be a lot more sophisticated.

But it also relies on taking control of your tank constantly so he doesn't get powned.  Which means your mage might not cast the right spell, or the rogue isn't doing all the damage that it could be doing.

The way I play I control Hawke 95% of the time, and have ideal tactics setup for my party. If you plan your tactics out right, you dont have to manually control your party and can focus on Hawke. Im sure there are some battles which will be difficult to do without manually moving every character somewhere, but when I encounter that I will adapt.

That's the way I play on Normal and Hard.  On Nightmare I control the PC maybe 40-50% of the time because tactics can only go so far.  Even though I have to say that Aveline's tactics work MUCH better than Alistair's.  I might actually get to play something BESIDES a warrior in this game

[colejossart]

KallDay wrote...

colejossart wrote...

But it also relies on taking control of your tank constantly so he doesn't get powned.  Which means your mage might not cast the right spell, or the rogue isn't doing all the damage that it could be doing.

Right. Part of this challenge is the crafting of optimal tactics lists for your companions. And, as I hinted at earlier, for the more difficult fights the tactics lists will have to be specially constructed. Still, within the structure of the challenge high APM switching among party memebers is allowed. But the key will come down to preset tactics, methinks.

But no matter how well crafted your tactics are, there are always situations that cannot be forseen, like a group of enemies charging from a room right behind your healer mage.  No amount of tactics will save you.  In that instance you will likely have to switch characters to save your healer.  And while your doing that, your 2H warrior will revert to pretty much standing still (while still doing a lot of damage) and getting pwned cause he's built for damage, not defense.  I'm not saying that it's impossible to 2H tank on Nightmare.  I'm saying that it's not possible to 2H tank on Nightmare w/o pausing to issue orders.  And I'll say again: I have no problem with 2H tanks, in fact that's probably going to be my first playthrough.  But it will be on Normal because my first playthrough is all about
1) Fun: I don't want to have to worry about getting pwnd 100 times during my playthrough.  I just want to sit back and enjoy the game and story/characters.
2) Coolness factor.  I want my first (main) playthrough to focus on being epic.  So SnS stabby stabby Defensive Stance is NOT epic at all.

I'm not trying to troll, but from what I've seen so far it's just not going to be possible, especially later in the game when the lieutenants and normal mobs and bosses all have too much health to take out quickly.  Even the devs said that it IS possible to 2H tank on Nightmare, but they had to micro manage their party and pause constantly.

[TEWR]

colejossart wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

animorphs reference? there was a tobias hawke in animorphs? and yea I guess Leon is a pretty overused name.

one name that I really liked using in Origins was my Dwarf Noble's name, my avatar. Meet noble Xanthos Aeducan! Also, I claim dibs on that name =P. you use it, a legion of ravenous killer monkeys shall appear at your doorstep and.... well it won't be pretty.

In Animorphs there was a kid who was permenantly morphed into a Red-Tail HAWKE.  His name was Tobias.

huh. I never knew that...

[colejossart]

Really? He was the one of the main characters.

[Sabresandiego]

colejossart wrote...

KallDay wrote...

colejossart wrote...

But it also relies on taking control of your tank constantly so he doesn't get powned.  Which means your mage might not cast the right spell, or the rogue isn't doing all the damage that it could be doing.

Right. Part of this challenge is the crafting of optimal tactics lists for your companions. And, as I hinted at earlier, for the more difficult fights the tactics lists will have to be specially constructed. Still, within the structure of the challenge high APM switching among party memebers is allowed. But the key will come down to preset tactics, methinks.

But no matter how well crafted your tactics are, there are always situations that cannot be forseen, like a group of enemies charging from a room right behind your healer mage.  No amount of tactics will save you.  In that instance you will likely have to switch characters to save your healer.  And while your doing that, your 2H warrior will revert to pretty much standing still (while still doing a lot of damage) and getting pwned cause he's built for damage, not defense.  I'm not saying that it's impossible to 2H tank on Nightmare.  I'm saying that it's not possible to 2H tank on Nightmare w/o pausing to issue orders.  And I'll say again: I have no problem with 2H tanks, in fact that's probably going to be my first playthrough.  But it will be on Normal because my first playthrough is all about
1) Fun: I don't want to have to worry about getting pwnd 100 times during my playthrough.  I just want to sit back and enjoy the game and story/characters.
2) Coolness factor.  I want my first (main) playthrough to focus on being epic.  So SnS stabby stabby Defensive Stance is NOT epic at all.

I'm not trying to troll, but from what I've seen so far it's just not going to be possible, especially later in the game when the lieutenants and normal mobs and bosses all have too much health to take out quickly.  Even the devs said that it IS possible to 2H tank on Nightmare, but they had to micro manage their party and pause constantly.

I have a tactic setup so that if my healer falls below 50% health, one of my rogues will use back to back to instantly appear next to him and then use armistice or goad to direct the enemies to Sabre. The only problem is dealing with ranged enemies, and I have specific instructions for both of my archers to prioritize ranged enemies (magic and archers) over melee.

The general strategy I will be using is having my archers direct all melee to Sabre, meanwhile sniping all ranged threats. Sabre AOE tanks hordes of enemies, and burst tanks bosses. Meanwhile, the mage keeps everyone alive and helps with cross class combos. This is just the basics, my strategy will actually be more complicated, espcially against bosses who are ranged.

[colejossart]

Sabresandiego wrote...

colejossart wrote...

KallDay wrote...

colejossart wrote...

But it also relies on taking control of your tank constantly so he doesn't get powned.  Which means your mage might not cast the right spell, or the rogue isn't doing all the damage that it could be doing.

Right. Part of this challenge is the crafting of optimal tactics lists for your companions. And, as I hinted at earlier, for the more difficult fights the tactics lists will have to be specially constructed. Still, within the structure of the challenge high APM switching among party memebers is allowed. But the key will come down to preset tactics, methinks.

But no matter how well crafted your tactics are, there are always situations that cannot be forseen, like a group of enemies charging from a room right behind your healer mage.  No amount of tactics will save you.  In that instance you will likely have to switch characters to save your healer.  And while your doing that, your 2H warrior will revert to pretty much standing still (while still doing a lot of damage) and getting pwned cause he's built for damage, not defense.  I'm not saying that it's impossible to 2H tank on Nightmare.  I'm saying that it's not possible to 2H tank on Nightmare w/o pausing to issue orders.  And I'll say again: I have no problem with 2H tanks, in fact that's probably going to be my first playthrough.  But it will be on Normal because my first playthrough is all about
1) Fun: I don't want to have to worry about getting pwnd 100 times during my playthrough.  I just want to sit back and enjoy the game and story/characters.
2) Coolness factor.  I want my first (main) playthrough to focus on being epic.  So SnS stabby stabby Defensive Stance is NOT epic at all.

I'm not trying to troll, but from what I've seen so far it's just not going to be possible, especially later in the game when the lieutenants and normal mobs and bosses all have too much health to take out quickly.  Even the devs said that it IS possible to 2H tank on Nightmare, but they had to micro manage their party and pause constantly.

I have a tactic setup so that if my healer falls below 50% health, one of my rogues will use back to back to instantly appear next to him and then use armistice or goad to direct the enemies to Sabre. The only problem is dealing with ranged enemies, and I have specific instructions for both of my archers to prioritize ranged enemies (magic and archers) over melee.

The general strategy I will be using is having my archers direct all melee to Sabre, meanwhile sniping all ranged threats. Sabre AOE tanks hordes of enemies, and burst tanks bosses. Meanwhile, the mage keeps everyone alive and helps with cross class combos. This is just the basics, my strategy will actually be more complicated, espcially against bosses who are ranged.

Well I guess the more power to you.  If it works out then that's awesome. 

I'm skeptical, but I think we've both stated our arguments and no one's mind is going to change lol.  Thanks for the debate.

[JulianoV]

I'm so far contemplating a damage transfering Aveline for Leiutenants and bosses with an avoidance-based main 2Her. It theoretically allows me to keep stuff around without as much kiting and repositioning, potentializing Bravura effects without having to worry much about lieutenants getting into the fray.

Then there's a rogue for aggro management and a buffer mage. Another reason I like the idea of carrying Aveline around is the taunt-stonewall-mage and rogue AoE combo. Those are two points I'd like to spend somewhere else on Hawke, honestly. I'll see how that goes. It's a big risky, but hey, where's the fun in playing it safe?

[XX-Pyro]

Was nice seeing both points and yes if my 2H tank doesn't work quite as well as Sabre's I'm quite likely to switch it for a SnB. I just really like a challenge when I play games, just makes it seem more real.

Also, my previous question still hands (although off topic). Could someone help me find a way to record my PS3 screen, preferably without the use of an on-site computer (meaning I don't have a laptop I can plug-in currently.)

[Lordless]

Whoa Animorphs I remember reading some of those like..... 15-16 years ago.

As for my Play through:

Hawke: DW rogue with heavy focus on damage and setting up CCCs
Aveline: Defender/Warmonger(maybe Battlemaster)
Bethany/Merril: Single target DPS with safe AoEs
Anders: Full support

I'm hoping a second rogue won't be necessary for aggro control with a tank focused on it.

[XX-Pyro]

Do we need to vid just boss battles or the entire game as proof :>?

[Sabresandiego]

Just video your most fun battles. Nothing to prove here, its all for fun.

[XX-Pyro]

Alright. Still looking for methods on capturing my PS3 fights,

[The_11thDoctor]

IF AOE doesnt friendly fire, I will gladly. If it does, then no. Im a mage and that wont work.