265 réponses à ce sujet

[duckphone07]

Berkilak wrote...

This is essentially tantamount to complaining about the Hawke in the Destiny trailer not being your Hawke and using abilities not exclusive to one class. Varric has been captured, is being interrogated and is spinning a grand tale to throw Cassandra off. Why would he give a detailed description of his friend in the first few minutes? Not only is the tale exaggerated, but quintessentially untrue.

But what if the player uses the default Hawke?  Then why is Varric telling exactly how Hawke looks? 

I understand your point, however, I would still like to see my Hawke doing cool things instead of the default one. 

[otherarrow]

Revan312 wrote...

Varric would have to assume the Chantry are a bunch of complete morons..

Well....

[GodWood]

It's pretty stupid if that's how it is.

[NinjaRogue]

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

This is essentially tantamount to complaining about the Hawke in the Destiny trailer not being your Hawke and using abilities not exclusive to one class. Varric has been captured, is being interrogated and is spinning a grand tale to throw Cassandra off. Why would he give a detailed description of his friend in the first few minutes? Not only is the tale exaggerated, but quintessentially untrue.

Why would he assume Cassandra wouldn't know what Hawke looked like, especially skin color?  He's already risen to freaking power.. I'm assuming Cassandra is informed enough to know at least the basic information about Hawke... Varric would have to assume the Chantry are a bunch of complete morons..

It would be like spinning a tale about Obama and telling the interrogater that he was Asian...

To me the Chantry are complete morons, and that's coming from someone that plays as a Andrastian all the time.

"Magic exist to serve man, never rule over it."

WHERE DOES THAT GIVE THEM A RIGHT TO RULE OVER MY MAGE! Hypocrites. /rant.

[Revan312]

otherarrow wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Varric would have to assume the Chantry are a bunch of complete morons..

Well....

hehe, ok, I shouldn't jump to preposterous conclusions.. The chantry is a bunch of morons, but I at least hold out hope that Cass herself isn't

[Berkilak]

duckphone07 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

This is essentially tantamount to complaining about the Hawke in the Destiny trailer not being your Hawke and using abilities not exclusive to one class. Varric has been captured, is being interrogated and is spinning a grand tale to throw Cassandra off. Why would he give a detailed description of his friend in the first few minutes? Not only is the tale exaggerated, but quintessentially untrue.

But what if the player uses the default Hawke?  Then why is Varric telling exactly how Hawke looks? 

I understand your point, however, I would still like to see my Hawke doing cool things instead of the default one. 

If the player is using the default Hawke, he didn't lie. If the player isn't using the default, he did lie.

I fail to see how this is an issue at all.

Your Hawke WILL be doing cool things after a little levelling.

Modifié par Berkilak, 11 février 2011 - 07:23 .

[Harid]

I dunno if it's lack of perspective, atheist reflection, or youthful folly that makes people seemingly unable to understand how the Chantry can exist, why it has followers, and why people oppress mages in the world of Dragon Age.

Not even going to get into the irony of trolling the chantry believers, and painting them in wide strokes, yet conversely, not understanding why they do the same to mages.

(And I'm an atheist.)

To get to more the point though, they should have done character creation first.  The ADD crowd that can't wait can get stuck with default Hawke, and those who made a custom Hawke would not have the jarring conclusion of Trailer Hawke and Custom Hawke existing in their game side by ****ing side.

Modifié par Harid, 11 février 2011 - 07:27 .

[Revan312]

Berkilak wrote...
If the player is using the default Hawke, he didn't lie. If the player isn't using the default, he did lie.

I fail to see how this is an issue at all.

Your Hawke WILL be doing cool things after a little levelling.

I don't care what your assumed justification is, I want to know why they set it up like this.. what technical/story/plot reason is there for forcing the beginning to be the default Hawke.. It seems unneeded and juist plain immersion breaking as others have said..

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Smaragdina wrote...

It'd be VERY strange and off-putting to see two wildly differing characters (or more, if your family members look very different - ie, skin tone) for the 'legendary' and 'mundane' stories.

Is it only five minutes of the game? Yes. Do those five minutes really matter to the story? No.

But do you get to see Hawke being amazingly badass during those five minutes? Yes. Would you rather see YOUR Hawke being amazingly badass? Yes.

Would it shatter immersion? YES.

+100 Approval <3

[Berkilak]

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...
If the player is using the default Hawke, he didn't lie. If the player isn't using the default, he did lie.

I fail to see how this is an issue at all.

Your Hawke WILL be doing cool things after a little levelling.

I don't care what your assumed justification is, I want to know why they set it up like this.. what technical/story/plot reason is there for forcing the beginning to be the default Hawke.. It seems unneeded and juist plain immersion breaking as others have said..

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

[Revan312]

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

[duckphone07]

Berkilak wrote...

duckphone07 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

This is essentially tantamount to complaining about the Hawke in the Destiny trailer not being your Hawke and using abilities not exclusive to one class. Varric has been captured, is being interrogated and is spinning a grand tale to throw Cassandra off. Why would he give a detailed description of his friend in the first few minutes? Not only is the tale exaggerated, but quintessentially untrue.

But what if the player uses the default Hawke?  Then why is Varric telling exactly how Hawke looks? 

I understand your point, however, I would still like to see my Hawke doing cool things instead of the default one. 

If the player is using the default Hawke, he didn't lie. If the player isn't using the default, he did lie.

I fail to see how this is an issue at all.

Your Hawke WILL be doing cool things after a little levelling.

It's fine if it isn't an issue for you.  Different strokes yadda yadda yadda...  As I said, it isn't a huge issue for me.  I was just wondering IF this was the case, and if so, why this is the case. 

I mean I really only have like two complaints about DA2 so far, and both are pretty small compllaints:

1.  This topic. 

2.  No shapeshifter specialization. 

[Wissenschaft]

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

[Berkilak]

Frankly, for me, it would be more immersion-breaking if he didn't lie at first. To each his own.

[Harid]

Berkilak wrote...

Frankly, for me, it would be more immersion-breaking if he didn't lie at first. To each his own.

He's already lying about your exploits.

But as someone as famous as the "Champion of Kirkwall", people looking for him should have a semblance of an idea of what he looks like.

If you make a minority warden, immersion would be broken right there.

Modifié par Harid, 11 février 2011 - 07:37 .

[Revan312]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

My god... how many more times do I have to reiterate this... I don't care what the justification is from a story perspective, I want to know why the developers, i.e. Bioware, decided to do this in the first place.. It's never been like this in any game before because of the immersion factor.. Plus it makes no sense that an investigator that's interrogating Varric wouldn't know the basics of Hawke (skin color, hair color etc), a man/woman that's risen to immense power recently..  If Varric is stupid enough to ****** Cass off regarding a widely known fact then I'm not looking forward to hearing what his narriration has in store..

[otherarrow]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

I just want to know how Cas can't know ANYTHING about Hawke. Even if you know nothing else at least you'll know if the person was a white male or a black woman...

[blueraven85]

the exaggerated part at the start could be used as the tutorial

[Berkilak]

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

To establish the narrative as one that is framed and not necessarily entirely accurate. To firmly show to the player that the story is just that - a story being told by a dwarf, not being played out in "real time" like most RPGs. It is set up as such to introduce you to a form of storytelling hitherto unknown in the video game world.

blueraven85 wrote...

the exaggerated part at the start could be used as the tutorial

It is...

Modifié par Berkilak, 11 février 2011 - 07:38 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Berkilak wrote...
A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

It's not. It's just a story.
On the other hand, try stop reading story book for awhile.

Get into the world. Maybe it's something different?

[Harid]

Berkilak wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

To establish the narrative as one that is framed and not necessarily entirely accurate. To firmly show to the player that the story is just that - a story being told by a dwarf, not being played out in "real time" like most RPGs. It is set up as such to introduce you to a form of storytelling hitherto unknown in the video game world.

Uh, framed narratives have been done before. . .I can think of Alpha Protocol and Saga Frontier 2 off the top of my head, and arguably Final Fantasy Tactics, what are you talking about?

Unless you are mocking Bioware's revisionist history.  If such, carry on.

Modifié par Harid, 11 février 2011 - 07:42 .

[Tamyn]

Wissenschaft wrote...


Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

Except if you choose the default Hawke, then he's not lying about Hawke's appearance. That seems to validate the default Hawke as being more "correct", which I dislike immensely.

I complained about this days ago in another thread. The game is going to be put on hold while you create your character no matter when it happens. Why can't it be at the very beginning? Then there would be no jarring break in the middle of a scene for CC after the game's already started.

Modifié par Tamyn, 11 février 2011 - 07:43 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Revan312 wrote...

My god... how many more times do I have to reiterate this... I don't care what the justification is from a story perspective, I want to know why the developers, i.e. Bioware, decided to do this in the first place.. It's never been like this in any game before because of the immersion factor.. Plus it makes no sense that an investigator that's interrogating Varric wouldn't know the basics of Hawke (skin color, hair color etc), a man/woman that's risen to immense power recently..  If Varric is stupid enough to ****** Cass off regarding a widely known fact then I'm not looking forward to hearing what his narriration has in store..

I already guess it's going to be something like this the moment they mentioned, unreliable third person narrator, story within story and "we want to see how exaggeration works." 

[Berkilak]

otherarrow wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

I just want to know how Cas can't know ANYTHING about Hawke. Even if you know nothing else at least you'll know if the person was a white male or a black woman...

Thedas has shown itself to be a world entirely uninterested in race (unlike the preoccupation of a certain North American country), and nearly as uninterested in gender, unlike the majority of our world. These things aren't important in the world of Dragon Age. And even if Cassandra knows these details, how does that break your immersion? She clearly stops him because she knows something is up. If anything, it should add to the immersion.

[Berkilak]

Harid wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

To establish the narrative as one that is framed and not necessarily entirely accurate. To firmly show to the player that the story is just that - a story being told by a dwarf, not being played out in "real time" like most RPGs. It is set up as such to introduce you to a form of storytelling hitherto unknown in the video game world.

Uh, framed narratives have been done before. . .I can think of Alpha Protocol and Saga Frontier 2 off the top of my head, and arguably Final Fantasy Tactics, what are you talking about?

There is a difference between a story that is narrated exactly and one that is unreliable. Tacking a narrator onto the beginning and end of a story is a cheap way of doing a framed narrative, in that the narrator doesn't engage with the material.

Modifié par Berkilak, 11 février 2011 - 07:45 .