265 réponses à ce sujet

[Harid]

Berkilak wrote...

otherarrow wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

I just want to know how Cas can't know ANYTHING about Hawke. Even if you know nothing else at least you'll know if the person was a white male or a black woman...

Thedas has shown itself to be a world entirely uninterested in race (unlike the preoccupation of a certain North American country), and nearly as uninterested in gender, unlike the majority of our world. These things aren't important in the world of Dragon Age. And even if Cassandra knows these details, how does that break your immersion? She clearly stops him because she knows something is up. If anything, it should add to the immersion.

Nothing in the game or the lore backs up any of your first claim.

And Antiva and the Qunari prove your second claim to be outright wrong.

Modifié par Harid, 11 février 2011 - 07:47 .

[MorrigansLove]

That's really f*ucking stupid if that's the case.

[Revan312]

Berkilak wrote...


To establish the narrative as one that is framed and not necessarily entirely accurate. To firmly show to the player that the story is just that - a story being told by a dwarf, not being played out in "real time" like most RPGs. It is set up as such to introduce you to a form of storytelling hitherto unknown in the video game world.

You have no idea why they did it. A frame narrative doesn't require a lying character at the beginning to establish the structure of the coming story for idiots.  You could do the same simply within the conversations between Varric and Cass regarding Hawke's family among numerous other ways to establish the structure, which is assuming you need the lies to begin with, which you don't..

Simply put, if your playing a minority Hawke, your connection is broken immediately upon starting the game.. Which is ridiculous in my opinion.

[wildannie]

Maybe you can create you character before the exaggerated section and then get the chance to edit your appearance and set your stats afterwards.

[Ryzaki]

Tamyn wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...


Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

Except if you choose the default Hawke, then he's not lying about Hawke's appearance. That seems to validate the default Hawke as being more "correct", which I dislike immensely.

I complained about this days ago in another thread. The game is going to be put on hold while you create your character no matter when it happens. Why can't it be at the very beginning? Then there would be no jarring break in the middle of a scene for CC after the game's already started.

Agreed.

This whole default Hawke thing doesn't sit well with me. Does this mean during all the exaggeration sequences Hawke will revert to default? 

[Harid]

wildannie wrote...

Maybe you can create you character before the exaggerated section and then get the chance to edit your appearance and set your stats afterwards.

According to Bioware this doesn't happen.

Gets in the way of the awesome happening.

[otherarrow]

Berkilak wrote...

otherarrow wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

I just want to know how Cas can't know ANYTHING about Hawke. Even if you know nothing else at least you'll know if the person was a white male or a black woman...

Thedas has shown itself to be a world entirely uninterested in race (unlike the preoccupation of a certain North American country), and nearly as uninterested in gender, unlike the majority of our world. These things aren't important in the world of Dragon Age. And even if Cassandra knows these details, how does that break your immersion? She clearly stops him because she knows something is up. If anything, it should add to the immersion.

Maybe not skin colour but what about sex?

You guys sound so dramatic when you say "break immersion". It wouldn't break my immersion, I'm just wondering why on earth they'd choose to do it this way. If Varric is lying and he knows that Cas knows, then why not just go all the way and say Hawke is the Archdemon?
I thought the lying part was clear when you start the game by being a badass and hacking through enemies like they're made of jelly...

[NinjaRogue]

Harid wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

otherarrow wrote...

Wissenschaft wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

A snarky dwarf is telling a story to someone that is holding him forcibly. He lies to them. Oh no! My immersion!

... how is this a stretch, again?

Again, I don't care in the least what the justification in the story is.. I want to know why they did it this way in the first place as it seems strange and completely contrived from a player perspective..

Why? Hes making up the story so we know hes lieing. Why should the player care if thats now how his hawke looks,Varric is MAKING IT UP.

I just want to know how Cas can't know ANYTHING about Hawke. Even if you know nothing else at least you'll know if the person was a white male or a black woman...

Thedas has shown itself to be a world entirely uninterested in race (unlike the preoccupation of a certain North American country), and nearly as uninterested in gender, unlike the majority of our world. These things aren't important in the world of Dragon Age. And even if Cassandra knows these details, how does that break your immersion? She clearly stops him because she knows something is up. If anything, it should add to the immersion.

Nothing in the game or the lore backs up any of your first claim.

And Antiva and the Qunari prove your second claim to be outright wrong.

About the gender thing, all we hear about it is from Fergus' wife. Yet Zevran tells you a story of a Crow...that is a woman.......that fights............what?

[duckphone07]

wildannie wrote...

Maybe you can create you character before the exaggerated section and then get the chance to edit your appearance and set your stats afterwards.

This would be PERFECT.    It gives the player a chance to edit their character after they have seen them in action while also letting the player see their Hawke be cool and exaggerated.

[Harid]

NinjaRogue wrote...

About the gender thing, all we hear about it is from Fergus' wife. Yet Zevran tells you a story of a Crow...that is a woman.......that fights............what?

Believe he states that it is not the norm.

[NinjaRogue]

Harid wrote...

NinjaRogue wrote...

About the gender thing, all we hear about it is from Fergus' wife. Yet Zevran tells you a story of a Crow...that is a woman.......that fights............what?

Believe he states that it is not the norm.

Oh okay. I have never romanced him and only know what I have heard from others. 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

NinjaRogue wrote...
About the gender thing, all we hear about it is from Fergus' wife. Yet Zevran tells you a story of a Crow...that is a woman.......that fights............what?

Hahahahah! This is funny! 

[Harid]

NinjaRogue wrote...

Harid wrote...

NinjaRogue wrote...

About the gender thing, all we hear about it is from Fergus' wife. Yet Zevran tells you a story of a Crow...that is a woman.......that fights............what?

Believe he states that it is not the norm.

Oh okay. I have never romanced him and only know what I have heard from others. 

Yeah, Gaider said it too.

[Revan312]

I just don't see the reason from a game development standpoint and I can't imagine any focus group giving positive feedback on it..

Tester: "Why can't I create my character at the start?"

Bioware: "Because the default is the version of Hawke that Varric is lying about to establish the frame narrative"

Tester: "But I got that from how the story started anyway"

Bioware: "Well it's also to get you right into the action"

Tester: "But my Hawke was gonna be black, this seems odd.."

Bioware: "Well the default has a blood smear on their face! So enjoy!"

Tester: "Right......."

Modifié par Revan312, 11 février 2011 - 07:58 .

[Berkilak]

Your hypothetical conversation is exceedingly glib.

[otherarrow]

Revan312 wrote...

I just don't see the reason from a game development standpoint and I can't imagine any focus group giving positive feedback on it..

Tester: "Why can't I create my character at the start?"

Bioware: "Because the default is the version of Hawke that Varric is lying about to establish the frame narrative"

Tester: "But I got that from how the story started anyway"

Bioware: "Well it's also to get you right into the action"

Tester: "But my Hawke was gonna be black, this seems odd.."

Bioware: "Well the default has a blood smear on their face! So enjoy!"

Tester: "Right......."

^^

Bioware: Varric is only trying to make your Hawke seem cooler. I mean, generic white Hawke? Come on.. doesn't get more hardcore than that.
Hawke: I'm a woman. I don't find it funny being confused with a guy with a beard...
Bioware: ... come on...

[HighMoon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

It's my impression that both are yes and I as well, if it is really the case, am confused as to why exactly that's the case? Doesn't make a whole lotta sense, especially if your Hawke is a darker ethnic custom make. Having a Black/Latino/Asian/other Hawke with that mandatory default opening will be jarring and ridiculous..

So here's hoping they're just rumors because otherwise.. wow, so contrived..

Cassandra: "What? EVERYONE knows Hawke is from Rivain, why would you say she's white?"

Varric "Well... I prefer whites?"

*Cassandra stabs Varric*

lulz Varric's racist. 

XD 

And before anyone jumps down my throat that was a joke. 

*jumps down Ryzaki's throat*

Weeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! Wonderland, here I come!

[Revan312]

Filament wrote...

I don't think this really validates the default Hawke appearance as being the correct one, but rather demonstrates how wildly myth can sometimes diverge from reality, and yet how sometimes, there's more truth to it than you would have thought.

There's not many "legends" outside of Jesus that don't correctly get the racial archetype of the person down..

[Berkilak]

Revan312 wrote...

Filament wrote...

I don't think this really validates the default Hawke appearance as being the correct one, but rather demonstrates how wildly myth can sometimes diverge from reality, and yet how sometimes, there's more truth to it than you would have thought.

There's not many "legends" outside of Jesus that don't correctly get the racial archetype of the person down..

I have a friend named Derek. Is he white or black? I also have a friend named Terry. Is this person male or female? White or black? A third has the last name Raven. What is their gender and race?

Modifié par Berkilak, 11 février 2011 - 08:06 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

otherarrow wrote...
Bioware: Varric is only trying to make your Hawke seem cooler. I mean, generic white Hawke? Come on.. doesn't get more hardcore than that.
Hawke: I'm a woman. I don't find it funny being confused with a guy with a beard...
Bioware: ... come on...

Lol!! Hahahahaha 

[Revan312]

Berkilak wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Filament wrote...

I don't think this really validates the default Hawke appearance as being the correct one, but rather demonstrates how wildly myth can sometimes diverge from reality, and yet how sometimes, there's more truth to it than you would have thought.

There's not many "legends" outside of Jesus that don't correctly get the racial archetype of the person down..

I have a friend named Derek. Is he white or black?

Umm, he was never the leader of Kirkwall and he hasn't risen to power just recently.. bad example is bad..

[AlanC9]

Revan312 wrote...

It's my impression that both are yes and I as well, if it is really the case, am confused as to why exactly that's the case? Doesn't make a whole lotta sense, especially if your Hawke is a darker ethnic custom make. Having a Black/Latino/Asian/other Hawke with that mandatory default opening will be jarring and ridiculous..

So here's hoping they're just rumors because otherwise.. wow, so contrived..

Cassandra: "What? EVERYONE knows Hawke is from Rivain, why would you say she's white?"

Varric "Well... I prefer whites?"

*Cassandra stabs Varric*

What everyone actually knows is that Hawke is from Lothering. Do they know where Hawke's family comes from?

[NinjaRogue]

Golden-Rose wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

It's my impression that both are yes and I as well, if it is really the case, am confused as to why exactly that's the case? Doesn't make a whole lotta sense, especially if your Hawke is a darker ethnic custom make. Having a Black/Latino/Asian/other Hawke with that mandatory default opening will be jarring and ridiculous..

So here's hoping they're just rumors because otherwise.. wow, so contrived..

Cassandra: "What? EVERYONE knows Hawke is from Rivain, why would you say she's white?"

Varric "Well... I prefer whites?"

*Cassandra stabs Varric*

lulz Varric's racist. 

XD 

And before anyone jumps down my throat that was a joke. 

*jumps down Ryzaki's throat*

Weeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! Wonderland, here I come!

Jesus erase the image, Jesus block the image.

[Berkilak]

Revan312 wrote...

Berkilak wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

Filament wrote...

I don't think this really validates the default Hawke appearance as being the correct one, but rather demonstrates how wildly myth can sometimes diverge from reality, and yet how sometimes, there's more truth to it than you would have thought.

There's not many "legends" outside of Jesus that don't correctly get the racial archetype of the person down..

I have a friend named Derek. Is he white or black?

Umm, he was never the leader of Kirkwall and he hasn't risen to power just recently.. bad example is bad..

People don't generally point out race when they're talking about someone, unless they're pre-occupied with such things. You're projecting.