265 réponses à ce sujet

[Dubya75]

Adhin wrote...

Yeah that 20 minutes of unskippable crap before CC is an issue I always have with bioware games. Not so much the 20 minutes 'before' CC as its always been before the game starts (except in ME2 and, as we're dreading maybe DA2).
But they ALWAYS have this extremely long, drawn out intro section you can't skip via any means that, ultimately, has no barrings what so-ever on the actual story. Started with BG but was at the very least a quick simple tutorial like thing you could zip through and be done with it. BG2 though had a damn dungoen crawl with puzzles to deal with right off the bat. Prior to which you had to SIT THROUGH all this unskippable bull****. All of which had already been setup from the initial 'this is wahts happening!' and then they semi-re-do some of it in game again. ME1 had it with the loooong intro walking on the ship to face reveal... face you already saw in the CC heh. Even DAO as I've said elsewhere, up till past Lothering it was all on-rails intro. Your Pre-intro origin to your Intro at Ostigar to your intro to the world/map with Lothering to your intro to your camp. 2 damn hours in and your finally at a point where stuff you do actually matters.
All my whining aside that's the only major complaint I ever have with there games and I often just watch TV while some of the unskippable intro crap plays out on my 10th remake of a character so its no biggy heh.

Errrm, have you tried pressing Esc to skip the intro scene in Origins? sure, console may be a different matter, I don't know what platform you play on...
As for the intro being 20 minutes, I think you're exaggerating a bit.

[Dubya75]

BTW, I've seen a video clip of the start of the game, and I can tell you it takes a very short time before you play the buffed version of Hawke...it will NOT be a drag as some suggest.

I think Bioware has done an excellent job at creating an interesting start to the game.

[Adhin]

Oh its not the intro movie I'm talking about I alway skip that nonsense. I mean they have a habit of having long, drawn out intro 'stuff'. Like whats usually a 5 minute tutorial in one game ends up being a 1-2 hour unskippable romp in Bioware games. NWN actually 'had' that part being skippable as you didn't have to start in the newb-starting zone I don't think.

As with DAO I was more talking about how long it all took to get to your actual camp, which meant you got to actually 'do' stuff in the world its self. I liked the Origins mind you so im not to annoyed with them, but take that add on Ostigar middle 'this is how you fight with a party, oh noes wolves' sequence which then leads up to the big fight just so you get saved which teachs you theres a map and using it to goto Lothering (cause its all your allowed to go to at that point). Then you do (or don't) stuff there and finally get to the camp, which is the only place you can go once your out of lothering heh.

It's all one giant intro with Origin's in the front, masked as story stuff. Story stuff I like mind you, drawn out filler stuff to teach you how the interface works in a round-about way feels kinda bleh.

-edit-
Yeah I saw that intro thing literally 2 minutes with Varric and then exaggerated part. I feel like that whole event to CC will ultimately be much shorter then ME2 which im happy for. Doesn't stop me from being irked that the CC maybe after that though. If it is i hope they have some special dialog to show you didn't go with default Hawke face. Maybe just cass going 'Oh I wasn't expecting that' or something.

Modifié par Adhin, 11 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[Tamyn]

I'll get over it when I play. The idea of this just bothers me.

Modifié par Tamyn, 11 février 2011 - 09:44 .

[Adhin]

Yeah what Tamyn said in a much simpler way. I type to much.

[duckphone07]

Dubya75 wrote...

BTW, I've seen a video clip of the start of the game, and I can tell you it takes a very short time before you play the buffed version of Hawke...it will NOT be a drag as some suggest.
I think Bioware has done an excellent job at creating an interesting start to the game.

I am sure it is interesting.  This one thing will not break the beginning for me, but it will detract from it.

BeardedNinja wrote...

Kudos on trying to make a coherent
point and dissuade their fears, but this has become somewhat of a rant
thread about the begining of the game (thats not even out yet lol) and
its not going to change their minds.

Voicing our opinions does not equal rant thread.  I was merely asking some questions and expressing some concerns. 

Don't be too quick to take our discussion about this topic as ranting without point.  We can have our concerns, and you can disagree with them, but don't group us as people who are irrationally angry at something.

[otherarrow]

I have a feeling it might bother the people that are anal about their character and likes to tweek it, the most.

Like me.

[Dubya75]

How can the intro of the game detract from the rest of the game? That just doesn't make any sense. Reserve judgement until you've seen it. I have and it's EPIC!
Are people really that anal about customising their character that they can't endure 5 minutes of initial gameplay with Vanilla Hawke? BAH!

Modifié par Dubya75, 11 février 2011 - 09:54 .

[Adhin]

Yeah I think I spent a week with ME1 just trying to get a face right once. ME2 I haven't had that kinda problem but ME1 CC had this whole lighting issue where you made one thing, went in game (through 5 minutes of canned walking) then saw the face and it was completely different.

If the recent picture a dev posted of there attempt at an Obama Hawke is 'directly' from the in game CC and not some character 'tool' then the lighting looks real nice this time around for DA2. Should be a lot easier to get just what your going for with out all them awkward moments once your done. Had a few with DAO which meant plenty of restarts.

[duckphone07]

Dubya75 wrote...

How can the intro of the game detract from the rest of the game? That just doesn't make any sense. Reserve judgement until you've seen it. I have and it's EPIC!
Are people really that anal about customising their character that they can't endure 5 minutes of initial gameplay with Vanilla Hawke? BAH!

Let me quote myself:

duckphone07 wrote...

I am sure it is interesting.  This one thing will not break the beginning for me, but it will detract from it.

If I wasn't clear, I meant that it will detract from the beginning of the game, not the whole game.

[BeardedNinja]

duckphone07 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

BTW, I've seen a video clip of the start of the game, and I can tell you it takes a very short time before you play the buffed version of Hawke...it will NOT be a drag as some suggest.
I think Bioware has done an excellent job at creating an interesting start to the game.

I am sure it is interesting.  This one thing will not break the beginning for me, but it will detract from it.

BeardedNinja wrote...

Kudos on trying to make a coherent
point and dissuade their fears, but this has become somewhat of a rant
thread about the begining of the game (thats not even out yet lol) and
its not going to change their minds.

Voicing our opinions does not equal rant thread.  I was merely asking some questions and expressing some concerns. 

Don't be too quick to take our discussion about this topic as ranting without point.  We can have our concerns, and you can disagree with them, but don't group us as people who are irrationally angry at something.

well "discussing" your points turned into "I hate this and there is nothing anybody can do to change my mind". And I'm not being quick, I've read every single page and even commented myself. But like you said everybody is entitled to their own opinion, I just dont see the point wasnt so much energy worrying on literally 5 minutes of gameplay, and also so many people have given examples of how it could work and they keep getting shot down.

[AlanC9]

Ryzaki wrote...

If the Champion and his family are all dark skinned that would easily be known. Why? Because even if skin color is no big deal it's an easy way to tell them out from the crowd.  

And no doubt legends would've captialized on that. Anything that would've made Hawke look different would've been exaggerated including his skin color. It wouldn't have been changed to the same as everyone else. 

This just sort of assumes that people will get the details right -- but the whole point of the frame is that they don't.

[Ryzaki]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

If the Champion and his family are all dark skinned that would easily be known. Why? Because even if skin color is no big deal it's an easy way to tell them out from the crowd.  

And no doubt legends would've captialized on that. Anything that would've made Hawke look different would've been exaggerated including his skin color. It wouldn't have been changed to the same as everyone else. 

This just sort of assumes that people will get the details right -- but the whole point of the frame is that they don't.

 

But this isn't the sort of detail one would get wrong. It sets him apart. They would've been all over that like a fat kid on cake. They might exaggerate him to being darker skinned or having exotic markings. But they certainly wouldn't make him look like joe smo. 

This is like instead of them thinking Hawke mage is a warrior. It's just...how do you get that wrong? 

Edit: That said this just...bothers me. I'll ignore it once in game but I don't see the necessity of it other than shoving default hawke down my throat. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 février 2011 - 10:12 .

[Adhin]

Unless you use default then they do? This is why I hope they have some kind of voiced nod to you not using default Hawke if they go that route. Not really a big deal its just awkward. And anything that's awkward is gonna make the intro that much more weird and disjointed till you get past it.

I personally think its silly I feel that way in the first place but I do. I also think its silly they would do that, but its possible they have. It's all just silly one way or another.

[duckphone07]

BeardedNinja wrote...

well "discussing" your points turned into "I hate this and there is nothing anybody can do to change my mind". And I'm not being quick, I've read every single page and even commented myself. But like you said everybody is entitled to their own opinion, I just dont see the point wasnt so much energy worrying on literally 5 minutes of gameplay, and also so many people have given examples of how it could work and they keep getting shot down.

Yes, examples have been given, but those examples still don't answer my primary question:

Why would this be done this way? 

Having the exaggeration part in the beginning be played with the default Hawke doesn't add anything to the story.  Why would it be designed this way(If this is indeed true)?

I think you saying this:

BeardedNinja wrote...
well "discussing" your points turned into "I hate this and there is nothing anybody can do to change my mind".

Is not true.  I think you may be seeing this with a skewed viewpoint.  We aren't being irrational or exceptionally angry.  This is a concern for some people, including me obviously.

EDIT: Typos

Modifié par duckphone07, 11 février 2011 - 10:10 .

[BeardedNinja]

duckphone07 wrote...

BeardedNinja wrote...

well "discussing" your points turned into "I hate this and there is nothing anybody can do to change my mind". And I'm not being quick, I've read every single page and even commented myself. But like you said everybody is entitled to their own opinion, I just dont see the point wasnt so much energy worrying on literally 5 minutes of gameplay, and also so many people have given examples of how it could work and they keep getting shot down.

Yes, examples have been given, but those examples still don't answer my primary question:

Why would this be done this way? 

Having the exaggeration part in the beginning be played with the default Hawke doesn't add anything to the story.  Why would it be designed this way(If this is indeed true)?

I think you saying this:

BeardedNinja wrote...
well "discussing" your points turned into "I hate this and there is nothing anybody can do to change my mind".

Is not true.  I think you may be seeing this with a skewed viewpoint.  We aren't being irrational or exceptionally angry.  This is a concern for some people, including me obviously.

EDIT: Typos

I seem to remember Revan312 saying something like " I wont accept this for any reason except a dev explaining it to me personally" while people were trying to give him good examples, but he would have none of it. True thats one persons view, but stil gave me a good reason to think this.
Umm bcause they are trying to show you that Varric is telling the story in a framed narrative?
How about they are trying to show you Varric is an unreliable narrator?
still not good enough? Thats really all I've got, simplest things I could think of.

[Ryzaki]

The problem with the unreliable narrator excuse is it breaks to pieces if you play a default Hawke (or hell the fact that Hawke's making enemies explode with one attack already shows him as unreliable).

[SeanMurphy2]

I think they just want to give people a taste of the action and story. And a feel of the classes with higher level abilities.

Before they take the time to create the look and build of their characters.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 11 février 2011 - 10:26 .

[Ryzaki]

Isn't that what the Quick Play button is for?

[duckphone07]

BeardedNinja wrote...

duckphone07 wrote...

BeardedNinja wrote...

well "discussing" your points turned into "I hate this and there is nothing anybody can do to change my mind". And I'm not being quick, I've read every single page and even commented myself. But like you said everybody is entitled to their own opinion, I just dont see the point wasnt so much energy worrying on literally 5 minutes of gameplay, and also so many people have given examples of how it could work and they keep getting shot down.

Yes, examples have been given, but those examples still don't answer my primary question:

Why would this be done this way? 

Having the exaggeration part in the beginning be played with the default Hawke doesn't add anything to the story.  Why would it be designed this way(If this is indeed true)?

I think you saying this:

BeardedNinja wrote...
well "discussing" your points turned into "I hate this and there is nothing anybody can do to change my mind".

Is not true.  I think you may be seeing this with a skewed viewpoint.  We aren't being irrational or exceptionally angry.  This is a concern for some people, including me obviously.

EDIT: Typos

I seem to remember Revan312 saying something like " I wont accept this for any reason except a dev explaining it to me personally" while people were trying to give him good examples, but he would have none of it. True thats one persons view, but stil gave me a good reason to think this.
Umm bcause they are trying to show you that Varric is telling the story in a framed narrative?
How about they are trying to show you Varric is an unreliable narrator?
still not good enough? Thats really all I've got, simplest things I could think of.

I feel that we shouldn't have to justify this to ourselves.  It is such an easy fix to just have the CC come first.  Why have the default Hawke shown, when we could have our custom Hawke shown?  Both your points are already implied in the whole "super powered version with tons of enemies" thing.  If no dialogue is put in to explain why our Hawke looks different too, then that is just a weird design choice.  And a choice that many will have to self justify, which shouldn't be the case so early in the game.

[BeardedNinja]

Ryzaki wrote...

The problem with the unreliable narrator excuse is it breaks to pieces if you play a default Hawke (or hell the fact that Hawke's making enemies explode with one attack already shows him as unreliable).

how about the devs were lazy and didnt want to code it in that you could have a custom character for the first 5 minutes and then after that first sequence you get to make you own Hawke? Does that make more sense, or make anybody happier?

[Ryzaki]

BeardedNinja wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The problem with the unreliable narrator excuse is it breaks to pieces if you play a default Hawke (or hell the fact that Hawke's making enemies explode with one attack already shows him as unreliable).

how about the devs were lazy and didnt want to code it in that you could have a custom character for the first 5 minutes and then after that first sequence you get to make you own Hawke? Does that make more sense, or make anybody happier?

Yet they could be bothered to code it in all the other times? 

No that doesn't make any sense. 

Especially not considering it's most likely a headmorph switch on a body. 

[BeardedNinja]

Ryzaki wrote...

BeardedNinja wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The problem with the unreliable narrator excuse is it breaks to pieces if you play a default Hawke (or hell the fact that Hawke's making enemies explode with one attack already shows him as unreliable).

how about the devs were lazy and didnt want to code it in that you could have a custom character for the first 5 minutes and then after that first sequence you get to make you own Hawke? Does that make more sense, or make anybody happier?

Yet they could be bothered to code it in all the other times? 

No that doesn't make any sense. 

Especially not considering it's most likely a headmorph switch on a body. 

Ok, we have established that. So therefor we can conlude that the devs did what they did for a design/story reason. If its so easy they could just do it, so then there must be a reason the character creator is after that one segment, even if we cant see it.

[duckphone07]

BeardedNinja wrote...

I seem to remember Revan312 saying something like " I wont accept this for any reason except a dev explaining it to me personally" while people were trying to give him good examples, but he would have none of it. True thats one persons view, but stil gave me a good reason to think this.

And I can not find that post of Revan312's.  I assume it is this one:

Revan312 wrote...

My god... how many more times do I have to reiterate this... I don't care what
the justification is from a story perspective, I want to know why the
developers, i.e. Bioware, decided to do this in the first place.. It's
never been like this in any game before because of the immersion
factor.. Plus it makes no sense that an investigator that's
interrogating Varric wouldn't know the basics of Hawke (skin color, hair
color etc), a man/woman that's risen to immense power recently..  If
Varric is stupid enough to ****** Cass off regarding a widely known fact
then I'm not looking forward to hearing what his narriration has in
store..

But he was saying that he didn't care about the way to justify this.  That wasn't where his interest was.  He was wondering the same thing I am:  Why was this done this way?  (Again, if it is indeed true) 

It is possible that this was done for a specific reason that we aren't aware of yet, but I can't see any reason being one good enough that could convince me that it was indeed a good design choice.  However, I have been wrong before.