265 réponses à ce sujet

[hawat333]

Heh. If it's true, it's silly. It can be explained, Varric doesn't begin with giving deatils about Hawke's looks, but it's still silly.

I wonder if it's part of the "players can jump into the action immidiately" BS, so "they don't find it boring". I could imagine.

Come on, an RPG not beginning with Character Creation? That's just not BioWare.

[Adhin]

I kind of understand that but at the same time I'd like to get the character face thing out of the way, so to speak, before I get into the action. If i get into the action for 5 minutes lets say and im all '**** YEAH LETS ROCK'...and then its 'but wait, make your face now' it kinda kicks the idea in the teeth.

Now putting that aside, to the narrator bit it's like Ryzaki is saying. The very fact your playing an exaggerated part is whats supposed to do that. Having a completely different Hawke then the one you maybe playing with for the rest of the game (and presumable other exaggerated bits that may be there) just seems like a cop-out answer that's ultimately a redundancy.

Generally you want to look at these kind of things as a 'does it add anything'. Is it making the experience any better for the player. Does it make sense in the story. And I just don't see a reason as to why they would choose 'after' the exaggerated bit then before it. It just doesn't make sense.

[otherarrow]

duckphone07 wrote...

BeardedNinja wrote...

I seem to remember Revan312 saying something like " I wont accept this for any reason except a dev explaining it to me personally" while people were trying to give him good examples, but he would have none of it. True thats one persons view, but stil gave me a good reason to think this.

And I can not find that post of Revan312's.  I assume it is this one:

Revan312 wrote...

My god... how many more times do I have to reiterate this... I don't care what
the justification is from a story perspective, I want to know why the
developers, i.e. Bioware, decided to do this in the first place.. It's
never been like this in any game before because of the immersion
factor.. Plus it makes no sense that an investigator that's
interrogating Varric wouldn't know the basics of Hawke (skin color, hair
color etc), a man/woman that's risen to immense power recently..  If
Varric is stupid enough to ****** Cass off regarding a widely known fact
then I'm not looking forward to hearing what his narriration has in
store..

But he was saying that he didn't care about the way to justify this.  That wasn't where his interest was.  He was wondering the same thing I am:  Why was this done this way?  (Again, if it is indeed true) 

It is possible that this was done for a specific reason that we aren't aware of yet, but I can't see any reason being one good enough that could convince me that it was indeed a good design choice.  However, I have been wrong before. 

I agree with Duck. I don't think Revan was discounting your claims. You just weren't really answering the question. Why is it that CC can't be first?
To show Varric is lying? - easy killing darkspawn is there for that, and it won't matter if you pick marketing hawke.
To get gamers right into the action? - the action will end up stopping because of CC anyway. Plus if you just want to get right into action, that's what the quickplay is for... as someone said.
If you just want to try out the game - then there's a demo coming up.

[Adhin]

Yeah it's kinda like lets say StarWars started off with some crazy action space battle then, before that was over with it just stopped mid-point and have the moving text stuff voiced over by an Elcor. I would find that hilarius but disjointed and awkward. Kinda like how I love the CC but would find it disjointed 'after' the game actually starts.

[BTCentral]

Chose sex/class -> tutorial -> Cassandra stabs knife into a book and says Varric is lying -> create character -> real story starts.

Works for me.

Modifié par BTCentral, 11 février 2011 - 11:01 .

[Rompa87]

So if you're not completely satisfied with your looks when you finally see it in-game, you have to replay the opening 5 minutes again, à la ME2?

I apologize if I'm repeating anyone here, but it strikes me as odd/tedious?

Modifié par Rompa87, 11 février 2011 - 11:05 .

[Wulfram]

The first few times I don't think it'll be too much of a problem. But it'll probably get boring on repeat playthroughs, so hopefully there'll be a mod to allow you to go straight to CC out fairly quickly.

edit:There's that black mirror thingummy that'll allow you to change your appearance.  Should help if your PC is ugly

Modifié par Wulfram, 11 février 2011 - 11:06 .

[otherarrow]

Rompa87 wrote...

So if you're not completely satisfied with your looks when you finally see it in-game, you have to replay the opening 5 minutes again, à la ME2?

I apologize if I'm repeating anyone here, but it strikes me as odd/tedious?

Basically yes.

We're just discussing whether this is something to complain about or not

If you're looking for confirmation though.. well, no one has presented any "official" proof so..

[Oloos]

Well, the main problem with the CC in DA2 is that it also affect your family. I'll probably need few times in it until my hawke and her family looks good. But maybe we can save the game right before the CC and then just reload as much as we want ?

Modifié par Oloos, 11 février 2011 - 11:10 .

[otherarrow]

Wulfram wrote...

edit:There's that black mirror thingummy that'll allow you to change your appearance.  Should help if your PC is ugly

Yeah, but annoying if you find out your hawke is ugly after a few minutes of gameplay.. I have a feeling the mirror wont be there until you reach kirkwall.

[otherarrow]

Oloos wrote...

Well, the main problem with the CC in DA2 is that it also affect your family. I'll probably need few times in it until my hawke and her family looks good. But maybe we can save the game right before the CC and then just reload as much as we want ?

Hopefully^_^

[BTCentral]

Rompa87 wrote...

So if you're not completely satisfied with your looks when you finally see it in-game, you have to replay the opening 5 minutes again, à la ME2?

I apologize if I'm repeating anyone here, but it strikes me as odd/tedious?

No, you use the Mirror of Transformation included with all new copies of the game.

'd.

Modifié par BTCentral, 11 février 2011 - 11:12 .

[Rompa87]

BTCentral wrote...

Rompa87 wrote...

So if you're not completely satisfied with your looks when you finally see it in-game, you have to replay the opening 5 minutes again, à la ME2?

I apologize if I'm repeating anyone here, but it strikes me as odd/tedious?

No, you use the Mirror of Transformation included with all new copies of the game.

'd.

A shame this mirror isn't "nestled deep" down in Hawke's hand bag, rather than under Kirkwall

Modifié par Rompa87, 11 février 2011 - 11:14 .

[Adhin]

Heh yeah and they have an IC reasoning behind the mirror with it actually changing reality its self, hense why your siblings also change and all that its not just you personally. Which is kinda awkward too in and of its self but its one way to just get around the idea of it only changing Hawke when folk sjust probably want to use it to tweak some basic stuff.

[Arisato]

Rompa87 wrote...

So if you're not completely satisfied with your looks when you finally see it in-game, you have to replay the opening 5 minutes again, à la ME2?

I apologize if I'm repeating anyone here, but it strikes me as odd/tedious?

Give it a week at the very most and there will be a mod that will skip the tutorial if it's going to be like that.  For all we know there might be a built in option to do so.

[hawat333]

Adhin wrote...

Heh yeah and they have an IC reasoning behind the mirror with it actually changing reality its self, hense why your siblings also change and all that its not just you personally. Which is kinda awkward too in and of its self but its one way to just get around the idea of it only changing Hawke when folk sjust probably want to use it to tweak some basic stuff.

It's kinda fun to think of it.
Hawke standing there, murmuring "Oh, gosh, my nose is ugly, let's change reality itself with all my relatives so it'll be shaped a bit softer."
But considering the game spans through a decade, I might consider using it for growing a beard. Or not.

[Guitar-Hero]

If they cover his face up like the beginning of ME2 then i wouldn't be opposed to it, otherwise it seems quite silly.

[duckphone07]

Steffen wrote...

If they cover his face up like the beginning of ME2 then i wouldn't be opposed to it, otherwise it seems quite silly.

If Hawke was a mage, they would have to cover up more than that since his/her left arm isn't covered fully.

[cindercatz]

Gameplay: It emphasizes immediacy. That's the big gameplay shift this iteration.

Story: It illustrates that while you're listening to Varric, you're reflexively seeing things through Cassandra's mind's eye. Varric probably just starts to recite whatever the most common parts of the pre-war gossip are. She pictures a generic but slightly mythic Fereldan because she likely knows nothing of Hawke aside that he/she was a Fereldan refugee who fled to the Free Marches and then somehow rose to prominence, and that whoever has her investigating Hawke has fingered him/her in igniting a large war that everybody's about to be sucked into. Prior to this, most information about him/her comes from the Marches where his/her star rose over the previous ten years, and since most people on the continent of Thedas are both nationalistic and xenophobic, what's most important and therefore most widely known in the Marches is that Hawke is a foreigner from Fereldan. The reason race would be an afterthought is that most every nation we know so far in Thedas is basically mono-ethnic. When people lack information, they automatically make assumptions to fill in the gaps until they replace those assumptions with new information, which is why the exaggerated portions evolve throughout the game along the path of the story. The devs are making a thematic point of preconception. Once you get into the 'real' parts of your story, you're no longer 'listening' to the story; you're basically telling it yourself, as was, so your family's race is defined, etc., set against Cassandra's biases and the popular myth. It does a lot for the story, actually, and the social setting. It's intentional.

[blothulfur]

Surely this wont be going into the finished game I mean the default Hawke is fine and all (apart from the false teeth and emo wig) but he's not going to look one iota like my Hawke, makes absolutely no sense to jar your player out of the game as soon as they start.

Maybe it's just the demo, fingers crossed.

[Adhin]

That's one way to look at it Cinder and, like I was ultimately trying to get across if they actually call it out in Varric and Cassandra's back and forth it would actually work that way or another. Problem is if they don't and you just get this awkward out of no where, unexplained 'and now he looks like you want him to'. Which means you'd have to be imposing your 'take' on what they where thinking of when they made that choice.

What Im getting at ultimately is...I dunno basically I guess with say Oblivion. When the dude asks you a few questions then goes 'let me guess what you are!' you pick a different class or make up your own and he'll go 'Oh not what I was thinking'. Unless you go with his choice then hes all 'hah yeah I knew it'.

When she says 'bull****! tell how it really happened', if you then make your char and she goes with a 'Oh wasn't expecting that' if its not default hawke or a 'yeah I figured' if you go default I'd be a lot happier. I just want the damn thing nodded at if its going to be used as a story device.

[AngelicMachinery]

I don't wanta be a man in the beginning of the game! Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Herr Uhl]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I don't wanta be a man in the beginning of the game! Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

You choose gender and class. You get the basic Marian or Garret appearance and a set moveset.

I think that the legends wouldn't overlook such an obvious thing as gender.

[l0velikeneedles]

cindercatz wrote...

Gameplay: It emphasizes immediacy. That's the big gameplay shift this iteration.
Story: It illustrates that while you're listening to Varric, you're reflexively seeing things through Cassandra's mind's eye. Varric probably just starts to recite whatever the most common parts of the pre-war gossip are. She pictures a generic but slightly mythic Fereldan because she likely knows nothing of Hawke aside that he/she was a Fereldan refugee who fled to the Free Marches and then somehow rose to prominence, and that whoever has her investigating Hawke has fingered him/her in igniting a large war that everybody's about to be sucked into. Prior to this, most information about him/her comes from the Marches where his/her star rose over the previous ten years, and since most people on the continent of Thedas are both nationalistic and xenophobic, what's most important and therefore most widely known in the Marches is that Hawke is a foreigner from Fereldan. The reason race would be an afterthought is that most every nation we know so far in Thedas is basically mono-ethnic. When people lack information, they automatically make assumptions to fill in the gaps until they replace those assumptions with new information, which is why the exaggerated portions evolve throughout the game along the path of the story. The devs are making a thematic point of preconception. Once you get into the 'real' parts of your story, you're no longer 'listening' to the story; you're basically telling it yourself, as was, so your family's race is defined, etc., set against Cassandra's biases and the popular myth. It does a lot for the story, actually, and the social setting. It's intentional.

That's a really good way of putting that, I hadn't thought of it like that before. I was under the impression it was so they could do a fancy FMV during the story and have a person to represent Hawke, hence the default one being used, if you follow? I prefer your explanation, though...

Edit: Oh, and obviously 2 FMV's for the male Hawke and female Hawke...

Modifié par l0velikeneedles, 11 février 2011 - 03:06 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

cindercatz wrote...

Gameplay: It emphasizes immediacy. That's the big gameplay shift this iteration.
Story: It illustrates that while you're listening to Varric, you're reflexively seeing things through Cassandra's mind's eye. Varric probably just starts to recite whatever the most common parts of the pre-war gossip are. She pictures a generic but slightly mythic Fereldan because she likely knows nothing of Hawke aside that he/she was a Fereldan refugee who fled to the Free Marches and then somehow rose to prominence, and that whoever has her investigating Hawke has fingered him/her in igniting a large war that everybody's about to be sucked into. Prior to this, most information about him/her comes from the Marches where his/her star rose over the previous ten years, and since most people on the continent of Thedas are both nationalistic and xenophobic, what's most important and therefore most widely known in the Marches is that Hawke is a foreigner from Fereldan. The reason race would be an afterthought is that most every nation we know so far in Thedas is basically mono-ethnic. When people lack information, they automatically make assumptions to fill in the gaps until they replace those assumptions with new information, which is why the exaggerated portions evolve throughout the game along the path of the story. The devs are making a thematic point of preconception. Once you get into the 'real' parts of your story, you're no longer 'listening' to the story; you're basically telling it yourself, as was, so your family's race is defined, etc., set against Cassandra's biases and the popular myth. It does a lot for the story, actually, and the social setting. It's intentional.

This .........third person story. 

It's difficult to shift focus from Varric's head at one point then to Cassandra's mind. Argh!.This hurt my head. 

I need to focus and read several times. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 11 février 2011 - 03:14 .