93 réponses à ce sujet

[Cleveland Ninja]

I'm trying to get a full paragon playthrough. Turning over the evidence is the right thing to do, right? If I didn't, wouldn't that just be dishonest?

[AdmiralCheez]

Tali trusts you not to. The paragon thing to do is to stand up for your friend.



Turning in the evidence could further encourage a quarian/geth war, would label Tali's father as a traitor, and would make you lose Tali's loyalty.

[Cleveland Ninja]

Oh. But wouldn't I just be hiding a war criminial? Or would that be a "necessary evil"?

[Wulfram]

Turning over the evidence gives you a bunch of renegade points and - much worse - a sad Tali. But it's still the right thing to do IMO.



It's consequences as far as Quarian/Geth relations are unclear. The pro-peace camp recieves a boost, but the political chaos may also encourage drastic action from the hawks.

[AdmiralCheez]

If you feel that turning in the evidence is the right thing to do, go for it. However, as mentioned before, you'll get a ton of renegade points for doing so. Also, since Tali won't be loyal to you, the odds of her getting killed later shoot up drastically.



Basically, by turning in the evidence, you are pretty much sentencing her to death.

[MaaZeus]

If there would be a chance to give the evidence behind closed doors, that would be the right choice. However, in this game you scream out to the whole public a very shocking news that will divide the Quarians between what to do, and drive them into chaos. No, giving the evidence this way is not a good thing, while technically honest it does more harm than good. In the end it can only boost ones self righteous "I didnt lie so I did no wrong" ego.

Keeping your lips tight is NOT dishonest nor lying. Especially on something like this with this severe consequences. It is playing smart. Saying directly that you found no evidence is a lie and therefore dishonest, which Shepard does NOT do in both Renegade and Paragon options charm options. In those Shepard just states the obvious that the whole trial is a farce, WHICH IT IS. A 100% truth.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 11 février 2011 - 03:40 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Tali trusts you not to. The paragon thing to do is to stand up for your friend.

Turning in the evidence could further encourage a quarian/geth war, would label Tali's father as a traitor, and would make you lose Tali's loyalty.

Tali's father is a traitor, the quarian/geth war and the different factions within quarian society are going to have to face their schism sooner or later, and Tali's desires are supremely biased.

I don't see how revealing the evidence is renegade at all.

[Cleveland Ninja]

PEOPLE CAN DIE IN THE GAME???????

[Wulfram]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

If you feel that turning in the evidence is the right thing to do, go for it. However, as mentioned before, you'll get a ton of renegade points for doing so. Also, since Tali won't be loyal to you, the odds of her getting killed later shoot up drastically.

Basically, by turning in the evidence, you are pretty much sentencing her to death.

She's alive and miserable in one of my games.  As long as pretty much everyone else is loyal and you don't ask her to do anything special, she'll be OK

[AdmiralCheez]

@Mystranna Kelteel: It's renegade because you are revealing data that will incite political turmoil (and possibly a suicidal war) and betraying a friend.

@Cleveland Ninja: Yes.  Everyone can die.  Except Joker.

@Wulfram: True, but that's hella hard to do.  All sorts of squadmate juggling involved.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 11 février 2011 - 03:42 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
@Mystranna Kelteel: It's renegade because you are revealing data that will incite political turmoil (and possibly a suicidal war) and betraying a friend.

"Betraying a friend" is not always renegade by default.  Garrus wanted to kill both Harkin and Sidonis; Miranda wanted to kill... what's-his-name; Zaeed wanted to let the workers die.
Betraying their wishes was paragon.

"Inciting political turmoil" is not the decision you're making.  That is a side-effect.  That'd be like claiming that letting Elnora go on Samara's mission is renegade because it releases a criminal back into society.

No, honestly I think this mission is just horribly written to revolve around Tali's "feelings".

[MaaZeus]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Tali trusts you not to. The paragon thing to do is to stand up for your friend.

Turning in the evidence could further encourage a quarian/geth war, would label Tali's father as a traitor, and would make you lose Tali's loyalty.

Tali's father is a traitor, the quarian/geth war and the different factions within quarian society are going to have to face their schism sooner or later, and Tali's desires are supremely biased.

I don't see how revealing the evidence is renegade at all.

Yes, but you are throwing fuel into a fire. And doing so might make the fire too big, too big to control and it gets out will surely bring chaos.

[AdmiralCheez]

@Mystranna Kelteel: Part of a paragon's goal is to prevent conflict. Therefore, Stopping Miranda and Garrus from shooting people makes sense, and so does withholding the evidence (since you know, from listening to the admirals, that this sort of data will unleash hell). Letting Elnora go is a paragon action because Shepard had no idea she was a murderous b-word at the time.



Honestly, I think Tali's loyalty mission is one of the best ones in the game, even if it does revolve around her feelings.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

MaaZeus wrote...
Yes, but you are throwing fuel into a fire. And doing so might make the fire too big, too big to control and it gets out will surely bring chaos.

Or it could burn bright and fast and then die down into nothing as opposed to letting it build and build to explode in an even more deadly fashion later on.

Honestly, the quarians have to deal with this schism sooner or later.  There's nothing ot say that hiding Rael's treason will prevent them from dealing with the schism that obviously does exist and will continue to exist until it's dealt with.

[MaaZeus]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
@Mystranna Kelteel: It's renegade because you are revealing data that will incite political turmoil (and possibly a suicidal war) and betraying a friend.

"Betraying a friend" is not always renegade by default.  Garrus wanted to kill both Harkin and Sidonis; Miranda wanted to kill... what's-his-name; Zaeed wanted to let the workers die.
Betraying their wishes was paragon.

"Inciting political turmoil" is not the decision you're making.  That is a side-effect.  That'd be like claiming that letting Elnora go on Samara's mission is renegade because it releases a criminal back into society.

No, honestly I think this mission is just horribly written to revolve around Tali's "feelings".

You are still responsible for it. Again, giving out a very sensitive information out to the public that is already unstable is not a smart thing to do unless you WANT to cause chaos. Sometimes truth hurts. But again, keeping your lips tight is not same thing as lying. There is nothing dishonest about it.

[Cleveland Ninja]

Holy crap.... I already failed Thane and Samara's Loyalty Missions..... and Jack is disloyal....

Modifié par Cleveland Ninja, 11 février 2011 - 03:56 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Cleveland Ninja wrote...

Holy crap.... I already two Thane and Samara's Loyalty Missions..... and Jack is disloyal....

Well, good luck to you, sir.

[MaaZeus]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...
Yes, but you are throwing fuel into a fire. And doing so might make the fire too big, too big to control and it gets out will surely bring chaos.

Or it could burn bright and fast and then die down into nothing as opposed to letting it build and build to explode in an even more deadly fashion later on.

Honestly, the quarians have to deal with this schism sooner or later.  There's nothing ot say that hiding Rael's treason will prevent them from dealing with the schism that obviously does exist and will continue to exist until it's dealt with.

Yes, Quarians have to deal with their schism. But how does revealing it help anything? The fire is already there and everyone knows it, there is nothing hidden. This evidence just makes the fire to explode.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 11 février 2011 - 03:54 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Mystranna Kelteel: Part of a paragon's goal is to prevent conflict. Therefore, Stopping Miranda and Garrus from shooting people makes sense, and so does withholding the evidence (since you know, from listening to the admirals, that this sort of data will unleash hell). Letting Elnora go is a paragon action because Shepard had no idea she was a murderous b-word at the time.

Honestly, I think Tali's loyalty mission is one of the best ones in the game, even if it does revolve around her feelings.

And Shepard does not know that revealing the truth will cause half the quarian populace to freak out and leave the flotilla.  Those are side effects.  You are not choosing to cause turmoil in handing over the evidence; you are choosing to expose the crimes of a person Tali herself says broke the flotilla's most sacred laws.

But it's written so as to sa that the reason you're doing it is because it will get Tali off the hook.  This mission is a lost opportunity to explore an actual, meaningful moral choice.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 11 février 2011 - 03:57 .

[hannibalizer0]

I really enjoyed the mission. However I had high enough Paragon to not even mention the data and persuade them just to drop it. I think turning over the data is a bad thing. As the others have said its adding fuel to a fire thats already burning.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

MaaZeus wrote...
You are still responsible for it. Again, giving out a very sensitive information out to the public that is already unstable is not a smart thing to do unless you WANT to cause chaos. Sometimes truth hurts. But again, keeping your lips tight is not same thing as lying. There is nothing dishonest about it.

And I'm still responsible for letting Elnora go. That doesn't mean it was a renegade decision.

Revealing Rael's crimes is the right thing to do in terms of justice and bringing closure to those people who died on the Alarei, and I don't just mean the scientists who "knew what they were getting into" but also the innocent marines and their familes who were trying to clean up the mess.

MaaZeus wrote...
Yes, Quarians have to deal with their schism. But how does revealing it help anything?

It brings the schism to the forefront and forces them to deal with it sooner rather than when it is too late...

[Stupidus]

Cleveland Ninja wrote...

Holy crap.... I already two Thane and Samara's Loyalty Missions..... and Jack is disloyal....

Oh dear. Better luck on your second playthrough

Stick with what you've got and finish the game, it's fun having variation.

[AdmiralCheez]

@Mystranna Kelteel: Actually, the choice is still there. Just because your preferred choice doesn't happen to be paragon doesn't mean it's broken. And yes, you very well knew beforehand the turmoil such data would cause from paying attention to the dialogue, especially from talking with the admirals. Just because it's a "side effect" doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered; would you take a certain medicine if it caused anal leakage?



Seriously, are we just going to repeat ourselves, here?

[MaaZeus]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@Mystranna Kelteel: Part of a paragon's goal is to prevent conflict. Therefore, Stopping Miranda and Garrus from shooting people makes sense, and so does withholding the evidence (since you know, from listening to the admirals, that this sort of data will unleash hell). Letting Elnora go is a paragon action because Shepard had no idea she was a murderous b-word at the time.

Honestly, I think Tali's loyalty mission is one of the best ones in the game, even if it does revolve around her feelings.

You are not choosing to cause turmoil in hadning over the evidence; you are choosing to expose the crime's of a person Tali herself says broke the flotilla's most sacred laws.

He already paid the ultimate price for his crimes. There is nothing good to gain anymore, bringing dead to justice is quite pointless. Only the bad side effects remain.

[MaaZeus]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...
You are still responsible for it. Again, giving out a very sensitive information out to the public that is already unstable is not a smart thing to do unless you WANT to cause chaos. Sometimes truth hurts. But again, keeping your lips tight is not same thing as lying. There is nothing dishonest about it.

And I'm still responsible for letting Elnora go. That doesn't mean it was a renegade decision.

Revealing Rael's crimes is the right thing to do in terms of justice and bringing closure to those people who died on the Alarei, and I don't just mean the scientists who "knew what they were getting into" but also the innocent marines and their familes who were trying to clean up the mess.

MaaZeus wrote...
Yes, Quarians have to deal with their schism. But how does revealing it help anything?

It brings the schism to the forefront and forces them to deal with it sooner rather than when it is too late...

And again I say it only makes the issue explode in their faces. This might, with high possibility, cause them to make rash actions. Instead letting them to handle it slowly and smartly, there might be civil war in worst case scenario. Giving the evidence helps NOTHING.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 11 février 2011 - 04:00 .