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[Hero11N7]

I'm wondering what you think happens to Jowan if you keep him around while in Redcliffe, then send him into the Fade and then defend him when it comes to judgeing his fate and he is sent to the Circle.

I'm hopeing it doesn't automatically mean he is made Tranquil. He seems like too much of a good guy for that to happen to him, even if he comes across as somewhat misguided.

[Avilia]

If you send him back to the Circle - he's a maleficar so the Templars will kill him. Best case scenario - they make him tranquil.

Much better to tell him to do a runner.

Modifié par Avilia, 12 février 2011 - 02:11 .

[Hero11N7]

well that will really suck. I'm too far in to restart it without losing a whole bunch of progress and this was suppose to be my import playthrough for DA2.

[Sarah1281]

Best case scenario - they make him tranquil.

Not for Jowan. He was willing to risk death to avoid being made a Tranquil in the mage origin.

[Avilia]

I don't think Jowan's fate has any particular plot significance over all. You don't ever find out what actually happens to him if you send him back - I'm making an assumption based on my dislike of the Chantry.

[Avilia]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Best case scenario - they make him tranquil.

Not for Jowan. He was willing to risk death to avoid being made a Tranquil in the mage origin.

Very true and I thought of that when I typed it.  If you don't want to let him go, killing him in his cell is probably the kindest thing to do.

Poor bastard - another victim of plot.

[errant_knight]

Jowan wants to make amends quite badly. If you give him the choice to run, he will refuse or hang around. You have to actually threaten him to get him to leave, and he turns himself over to the circle without complaint when he stays. It's important to him to rectify what he's done. He know what will happen to him and seems to be willing to die for the chance to help. I always send him into the fade to give him that chance..

[Glorfindel709]

I usually give him the chance to redeem himself for that incident, but in my current playthrough that Im importing to DA2, I'd like to think that a mage who is so focused on redeeming himself for the betterment of the world could do more for Ferelden than going into the Fade to fight a demon that I was already planning on confronting. I force him to leave, and hope that he is able to do good for the world with the chance Ive given him.

[sylvanaerie]

Killing him at that point is a mercy. All he has to look forward to at the circle is death on a templar's blade (if he's lucky) Tranquility if they aren't of a mind to be merciful.

Very sad.

[rwscissors702]

I don't see being made Tranquil as such a terrible fate. The Tranquil you can speak to about it, such as Owain, find the state agreeable. My HN recomended he be put to death, others that have got that far have let him go into the fade and then sent him back to the Circle for them to decide. I suspect it's likely a death sentence.

[HolyAvenger]

Tranquility or death. I'm not as sympathetic to Jowan as others here so I don't really mind either way.

[Sarah1281]

I don't see being made Tranquil as such a terrible fate. The Tranquil you can speak to about it, such as Owain, find the state agreeable.

Notably, the Tranquil lack the capacity to be mad, upset, or horrified so how they don't feel about being Tranquil isn't the best indication of what it's like. And Jowan himself would rather face death than have a magical lobotomy so I say let him just die and get it over with.

Edit: I can't stand Jowan. He comes across as very whiny to me and his voice doesn't help in that regard. He seems incapable of making rational decisions and everything he touches goes horribly wrong. That said, I wouldn't wish Tranquility on anyone.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 12 février 2011 - 03:27 .

[nenosronhir]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I don't see being made Tranquil as such a terrible fate. The Tranquil you can speak to about it, such as Owain, find the state agreeable.

Notably, the Tranquil lack the capacity to be mad, upset, or horrified so how they don't feel about being Tranquil isn't the best indication of what it's like. And Jowan himself would rather face death than have a magical lobotomy so I say let him just die and get it over with.

This.

Hard to gauge whether or not they're horrified at what they've become if they can't be horrified about it. Personally, Tranquility is roughly the equivalent of a death sentence, except the Circle gets to keep using them until their lifespan is up because they don't care what happens either way.

I hate the way you have to run him off, but I'd rather have him free than hand him back over to the Circle. Granted, that's mostly if my PC is a mage, who has some history on him and the Circle. If I'm playing any other origin, it varies between executions and handing him over to the Circle for justice, simply because they're not really in with Circle politics and punishments, especially if they haven't already done the Broken Circle quest.

[Zombie Chow]

Hero11N7 wrote...

I'm hopeing it doesn't automatically mean he is made Tranquil. He seems like too much of a good guy for that to happen to him, even if he comes across as somewhat misguided.

The saddest part was that most of what he did was to avoid being made Tranquil (shown only in the Mage Origin), as was decideded by 1st Enchanter Irving and Gregoir.  But then again, what Jowan did after he escaped really proves that they were right and it would have been better for everyone if he was made Tranquil to begin with.

A good yet misguided person can do a lot of damage.  A good yet misguided person with magical powers like Jowan can become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.  It almost validates the Chantry's views on magic.

I assumed Jowan ends up being Tranquil for this reason.  But I also wonder, what do you think happens to Lily (Jowan's girlfriend who is now in Mage prison because of him)?

[Shinobu]

I have heard that if you free him he will show up in a DLC as an apostate named "Levyn" who helps rescue peasants from darkspawn. Can anyone confirm this? Also, I swear that on my first playthrough *after* Arl Eamon was cured (not in the dungeon), when the Warden was given the choice of what to do with Jowan (Kill him, turn him over to the circle, etc.) one of the choices was: "Run, Jowan, run!" (Which I didn't pick, thinking it was a joke.) Unfortunately my PC gave him back to the Circle and presumed he got sent to Aeonar.

[sylvanaerie]

Shinobu wrote...

I have heard that if you free him he will show up in a DLC as an apostate named "Levyn" who helps rescue peasants from darkspawn. Can anyone confirm this? Also, I swear that on my first playthrough *after* Arl Eamon was cured (not in the dungeon), when the Warden was given the choice of what to do with Jowan (Kill him, turn him over to the circle, etc.) one of the choices was: "Run, Jowan, run!" (Which I didn't pick, thinking it was a joke.) Unfortunately my PC gave him back to the Circle and presumed he got sent to Aeonar.

It's not a DLC, it's a broken side quest on the chanter's board.  When you pick it up you move between one place to another and it spawns the encounter.  I think he is protecting travelers from darkspawn and you get to decide once and for all what  you will do with him.  I think if you want to kill him, the travelers protest that he has been protecting them and beg you not to.  I don't know for sure, I have never just let him go, feeling that it's almost not a favor to the lad to just release him to a life as an apostate on the run.  Plus, he really wants to make amends for what he's done.
However, the quest is broken and won't fire.  I think there was a mod that fixed it on the boards though, if you have DA on the PC.

[Hero11N7]

It would be nice if they could somehow just cut him off from his magic like how jedi can cut one off from the force.

[BroBear Berbil]

Hero11N7 wrote...

It would be nice if they could somehow just cut him off from his magic like how jedi can cut one off from the force.

The only way they can do this is through the Rite of Tranquility, which as has been mentioned, not only severs their magical abilities but also makes them emotionless. I'm not sure if templars would even make him a tranquil, I think it's more likely he's simply killed for being a maleficar. He certainly wasn't around in Witch Hunt and that would be too good a cameo to pass up if he had been made tranquil.

I told him to go on my mage and then debugged the "Jowan's Intention" quest which is really the best outcome you could possibly get for him.

Modifié par OnionXI, 12 février 2011 - 04:07 .

[nenosronhir]

Tranquility cuts a mage off from the Fade, effectively making them unable to use magic; a side-effect of that is a loss of their emotions/personality, and an ability to work with lyrium and enchantments.

Aeonar is where Lily was sent, and it certainly doesn't sound like a place someone returns from. I have a hard time feeling pity for her because she was willing to go so far for Jowan, only to balk at the last moment when she realises he's a bloodmage, like the magic itself makes him evil. Which is what she was taught, I suppose, but she was going against those teachings by trying to help him escape anyway.  

[Avilia]

Lily's not the sharpest tool in the shed (suits Jowan in that respect),but, still doesn't deserve her fate imho. I assume she's locked up in the Aeonar - which from what I know (which isn't much) - sounds like Devil's Island. Not a happy place.

[sylvanaerie]

Jowan and Lily were doomed even had they escaped. She is absolutely and completely a product of her world with phrases like "...remind us of the danger those cursed with magic pose." and the reaction she has to the artifacts in the basement. Coupled with Jowan's obvious fascination with such things, i doubt they would have lasted long together outside the tower. Perhaps the whole 'forbidden' aspect added more to the relationship than they thought, building something that washed over the fact that the two of them were essentially very different people.

[nenosronhir]

The Water God wrote...

nenosronhir wrote...

Tranquility cuts a mage off from the Fade, effectively making them unable to use magic; a side-effect of that is a loss of their emotions/personality, and an ability to work with lyrium and enchantments.

Aeonar is where Lily was sent, and it certainly doesn't sound like a place someone returns from. I have a hard time feeling pity for her because she was willing to go so far for Jowan, only to balk at the last moment when she realises he's a bloodmage, like the magic itself makes him evil. Which is what she was taught, I suppose, but she was going against those teachings by trying to help him escape anyway.  

She was helping him because she thought he was falsely accused of being a blood mage. She was angry when it turned out he was a big fat liar.

She wasn't angry. She was terrified. Jowan doesn't kill anyone on his way out despite the fact that he likely could have, he only incapacitates them. I might be optimistic in saying this, but it seemed to me that although Lily is cautious and frightened of magic/magical artefacts in general, she must have set aside her misgivings about Jowan being a mage, or she would have never tried to help him escape/tried to love him for who he is.

She's making a conscious decision to help him even though she knows the "dangers" of having a mage outside the Circle. Theoretically, it's been drilled into her that mages are dangerous to themselves and others even without the influence of blood magic, yes? And still, there she is, helping him escape, because she apparently loves him. Liar or not, if she felt strongly enough to help him in the first place, she should have been strong enough to give him the benefit of the doubt (and she wasn't).

Not saying she deserves Aeonar (and I'm not sure Greagoir would actually send her there), but ugh.