24 réponses à ce sujet

[JohnLawson]

How Kaiden/Ashley treated your shepard?I mean come on now, Shepard was in a coma for two years while Cerberus was rebuilding Him/Her,Yes,It' hurted them but still, shepard didn't deserve that. Also, Do anyone else wish that our ME1 L.I would ACTUALLY be a squad member in ME3?

[mander83]

Meh. It wasn't my favorite scene but I think it fits Kaidan (from a LI perspective). If someone I had loved was dead for two years and suddenly came back working for an organization like Cerberus...I'd be paranoid too. Emotionally that would be a lot to handle. I can't even imagine, honestly.

[jeweledleah]

Wall of text and major spoilers inc.



no to first, yes to second. I was actually annoyed at lack of options to explain why you are with Cerberus, why you haven't contacted them after waking up (why didn't we contact them exactly? we got to see Anderson, no problem, but not Kaidan or Ash? there must be a reason and I wish Shepard had a chance to give that reason to VS) acting like nothing happened, like you didn't disappear for 2 years, and seriously, would you believe someone even someone really close to you that they were dead and resurrected, or would you think that they either faked their death and lying to you or were brainwashed by organization who's done some brainwashing and questionable experiments on humans before?



And then Shepard either goes all "derp, you are refusing to listen to reason " (where exactly did you try to actually reason, instead of just either telling them you cannot go into it, or asking them to just blindly trust you) or even better one" come on, join me in this terrorist organization that goes against everything you swore an oath to protect. it will be just like old times!"



Horizon was mishandled, but I'm more annoyed with Shepard then VS. Vs, i can actually understand.



P.S. people like to talk how Tali and Garrus etc just welcome Shepard. well, I don't think any of the aliens remained on board past the battle with Saren. Garrus either went back to c-sec, or to train to be a spectre depending on your choices in ME1, Tali went back to Flotilla, Wrex didn't even have any idea you died, as he was too busy on Tuchanka, and Liara was the one who gave you to Cerberus in a first place. they didn't see Normandy blow up, they didn't see you get spaced, they might have even heard that you were missing in action rather then died.



Tali comes along with you partly out of gratitude and partly because she's annoyed with Flotilla and their political squabbling/sending in her people into too much danger. Garrus - you literally save his life. both express their mistrust of Cerberus and make it very clear that they are there for you and you only. neither of them is a career officer in a military.

[V-rex]

I think this topic has been discussed numerous times. To reiterate my previous statements, YES I thought Horizon was awful and painful to see one of my favorite characters get pushed aside like that, NO I don't hold it against Ashley/Kaidan for responding how they did and YES I do want to see Ashley (in my case) return as a squadmate and LI for Mass Effect 3 and NO I don't want to see them get pushed into the role of 'enemy' in Mass Effect 3.

There we go, simple enough. Also everything jeweledleah said.

Modifié par V-rex, 12 février 2011 - 04:42 .

[Katamariguy]

jeweledleah wrote...

P.S. people like to talk how Tali and Garrus etc just welcome Shepard. well, I don't think any of the aliens remained on board past the battle with Saren. Garrus either went back to c-sec, or to train to be a spectre depending on your choices in ME1, Tali went back to Flotilla, Wrex didn't even have any idea you died, as he was too busy on Tuchanka, and Liara was the one who gave you to Cerberus in a first place. they didn't see Normandy blow up, they didn't see you get spaced, they might have even heard that you were missing in action rather then died.

Liara WAS on the Normandy, and how could she give Shepard's body to Cerberus and think "Herp Derp, Shep's alive and well on the normandy."?

[jeweledleah]

Liara didn't. Liara is one of the people who's not annoyed at Shepard and the reason is - she gave Shep to Cerberus, so she knows exactly what happened and why Shep is with them. VS has no such advantage (if you could call it that)

Modifié par jeweledleah, 12 février 2011 - 05:06 .

[Ryzaki]

Yes OP I was very annoyed at Horizon. Kaidan was in my view out of character and my Shep was forced to drop down a good 60 IQ points.

[Whatever42]

The VS is a paragon character. That they would feel hurt and refuse to join Shepard with the renegade Cerberus organization is natural. Should they have explored that more, especially for paragon Shepards? Absolutely. Hopefully the DLC remedies that.

[lawp79]

Yes I was annoyed, more at the way my fav character had been pushed into such a tiny role than anything. I think the lack of dialoge options sucked, in all honesty if I was Ash and shep spoke to me the way he did on Horizon my reaction would be similar.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

One of my biggest annoyances with the scene is how Garrus's presence at the scene changes nothing.

You will think seeing one of your old comrade-in-arms again would give Shepard some more credibility, especially when he's an alien.

[Sabariel]

Since I'm a PS3 owner and not special enough for an ME1 port (<--Joking. Don't eat my face.) my reaction to Ms. Williams was: "Moo." and my reaction to Mr. Alenko was: "...Spaz". I didn't really have a strong reaction to either since I never developed a connection with them.

[Mestesso]

Lizardviking wrote...

One of my biggest annoyances with the scene is how Garrus's presence at the scene changes nothing.

You will think seeing one of your old comrade-in-arms again would give Shepard some more credibility, especially when he's an alien.

Yeah, the VS even says something like "You're with Cerberus now?  Garrus too?"  And you and Garrus BOTH just stand there looking dumb. 

[Mestesso]

Sabariel wrote...

Since I'm a PS3 owner and not special enough for an ME1 port (<--Joking. Don't eat my face.) my reaction to Ms. Williams was: "Moo." and my reaction to Mr. Alenko was: "...Spaz". I didn't really have a strong reaction to either since I never developed a connection with them.

It's really too bad Bioware couldn't make ME1 available for you PS3ers.  Ash and Kaidan are both great characters and having to choose which one to die on Virmire was awful.  Playing from your viewpoint, I prolly would've had the same reaction "Who is this person that I don't know that's being a total jackass to me?  Forget them!"

[darknoon5]

Nobody likes the scene, but it's way more realistic than them just joining you and immeditedly continuing your relationship with them (if you were in a relationship with them) after you've been gone for 2 years.



Btw, Garrus does say something. Bring anybody except Miranda and he'll say "damnit Kaidan/Williams, you're too focus on Cerberus to see the real threat" sometime during the dialog. Not great, but considering it's the only time ME1 squadmates besides Garrus and Tali acknowledge each other, it's better then nothing.

[Wulfram]

jeweledleah wrote...

P.S. people like to talk how Tali and Garrus etc just welcome Shepard. well, I don't think any of the aliens remained on board past the battle with Saren

IIRC, Jacob says that "the asari, Liara, and the quarian" got safely off the ship when you ask about what happened to your crew.

[Rune-Chan]

jeweledleah wrote...

*snipped to save space*

Agreed. I never romanced either VS but I was still annoyed at how the game gave no option to explain anything to them, for them it'd be a huge shock so they'd be right in being annoyed.

mrsph wrote...

I hate that I have to agree with Cerberus
all of a sudden. Seriously, every dialog choice is about how great
Cerberus is and how stupid Kaidan/Ash are for not seeing the light.

Indeed. Especially as every other conversation I had with all my other team was "I am not working for Cerberus". Not that any of the morons believed me.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 12 février 2011 - 11:53 .

[Loki330]

mander83 wrote...

Meh. It wasn't my favorite scene but I think it fits Kaidan (from a LI perspective). If someone I had loved was dead for two years and suddenly came back working for an organization like Cerberus...I'd be paranoid too. Emotionally that would be a lot to handle. I can't even imagine, honestly.

Pretty much this for both of them-someone you loved is alive and (apparently) pretty much no worse for wear after 2 years of mourning? Remember, Shep's back from the *dead*. That's hardly the most plausible thing (not that he mentions it <_<) and I think I'd do exactly the same thing when confronted with that-hide my relief and pain and joy most of all shock by having a bloody good yell at them before stomping off to cool down.

[Fault Girl]

I agree with all the above, I just feel that there should have been more options, saying Im not working for ceberus, I'm kinda stuck and saving lifes yet again. Or maybe you could have emailed back, that would have been cool. Kaidan's my favourite LI.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I don't like the scene either. I think it fits Ashley's character a bit, but I definately don't expect that reaction from Kaidan. But RPG's can't be all cute kittens and rainbows, so I'm fine with it.

However, my personal opinion is that something happened to Kaidan/Ash during those two years that Shepard was dead. We only see things from Shepard's perspective. And as Shepard was dead for two years, that leaves a lot of our perspective missing...

Something must have happened to the VS (I know there were the missions on ME1, but something more than that) to make them even more mistrustful of Cerberus.

Also, TIM does say that he fed some false rumours to the VS. He also asks Shepard if they have 'Put their past relationships behind them.' If Shepard responds that he/she is free and clear, TIM approves of it.

So, I think the 'rumours' TIM fed to the VS put Shepard in a worse light than the actual truth. Almost as if he engineered the 'Horizon event' so that Shepard would put his/her past relationships behind him/her.

[Manic Sheep]

Loki330 wrote...

mander83 wrote...

Meh. It wasn't my favorite scene but I think it fits Kaidan (from a LI perspective). If someone I had loved was dead for two years and suddenly came back working for an organization like Cerberus...I'd be paranoid too. Emotionally that would be a lot to handle. I can't even imagine, honestly.

Pretty much this for both of them-someone you loved is alive and (apparently) pretty much no worse for wear after 2 years of mourning? Remember, Shep's back from the *dead*. That's hardly the most plausible thing (not that he mentions it <_<) and I think I'd do exactly the same thing when confronted with that-hide my relief and pain and joy most of all shock by having a bloody good yell at them before stomping off to cool down.

Agreed, I don’t think it was the best written scene in the entire game but it wasn't the worst and I’m glad it kinda ends badly rather than the VS falling sway to the "Shepard effect". It dose make sense that most Shepards would for once just not know the right thing to say. Especially if the VS was your LI. I kinda imagine both of them going away and kicking themselves in the head for not handling it better. LI or not.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 12 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[Chewin]

Asking TIM about Liara early in the game, he replies that she's an information broker and should not be trusted.

As with the Horizon event, Shepard discovers that TIM had "sliped" some leaked information about Shepard working with Cerberous, the reason being why he did that was simply to "put their past relationships behind them".

For me, it was a stupid encounter on Horizon, but made perfect sense

Modifié par Chewin3, 12 février 2011 - 10:12 .

[Schneidend]

I really liked the Virmire Survivor encounter on Horizon. It's a little thing called characterization. Ahsley and Kaidan have their own opinions and they don't agree with working for Cerberus. To many of the encounter's detractors, evidently Ash and Kai should just kiss Shepard's boot and be praising their various gods he's even speaking to them.

[Kim Shepard]

I was a little annoyed about Horizon, but not nearly as much as I would have been if one of my favorite characters had acted that way. I was pretty neutral towards Kaidan in ME1, thought of him as a friend to the two Shepards I had played by that point and nothing more, and I never liked Ashley. I thought Garrus line was perfect, almost exactly what I was thinking - "Damn it, Kaidan. You're so focused on Cerberus that you're ignoring the real threat."

I understand that it can be hard for them to trust Cerberus, but they don't have to. Tali joins based on trust for Shepard alone, and she has much more reason to hate Cerberus. The way I see it, they should be able to put aside their feelings against Cerberus long enough to deal with the Reapers if a Sole Survivor Shepard can do it.

From my point of view, I already enjoyed working with TIM by the time I played through Horizon. I hope Shepard can continue to work with him in ME3, and I hope there is an option to have Kaidan/Ashley on the team or not. A lot of my Shepards would choose not - they're not a forgiving bunch, and many saw Horizon as a betrayal.