529 réponses à ce sujet

[Takeva_]

You shouldn't have started this thread if you were going rage like a "14 year old."

You should have known people were going to argue back. I'm kinda upset I missed my chance to be one of those that told us all how much of a child you are.

[Count Viceroy]

Saibh wrote...

OP, I know this is a hard thing to fathom, but there are girls on the internet.

"I couldn't care less to argue with a bunch of immature losers who would probably be dressing up like this if they themselves were women and not see it as an issue."

That implies something. I'm sure of it.

Don't do that, you're ruining the only thing he based his entire argument on. Now you'll make him look bad.

[Saphara]

Dr. wonderful wrote...

Actually, Dragon age avert this one.

Now, I seen some really stupid women wear nothing but a breastplate and a thong, be thankful that didn't happen.

Reminds me of Persona 3 Portable. One of the outfits was a battle bikini type thing. I thought it was hillarious, especially since the other 95% of attainable armor upgrades were conservative school clothes.

[thegoldfinch]

Wow, this thread really went down the toilet fast.

I understand wanting women in various forms of media who are sensibly dressed. Believe me. Nobody understands that more than an actual woman. But the Dragon Age team is different than the Mass Effect team. Dragon Age has proven to be very, very respectful towards women.

Isabela is one character who reveals skin because that is her character. Confident, sassy, flirty. I am also sure she has some very serious personal flaws that we will discover later on, so even those three adjectives won't describe her completely.

It would be different if every single character were skantily clad or Lady Hawke were forced to skip around in a torn up miniskirt. As it stands, the issue is not with Dragon Age. If you want to discuss the media in general respecting women, then I would take that to the Off Topic forum.

Modifié par pixieface, 12 février 2011 - 06:29 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

Oh damn. I always miss the good stuff.

[Eclipse_9990]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Saphara wrote...

Siven80 wrote...

A_y0ner_ wrote...

OK sorry guys. I had to go to sleep and couldn't keep up with this topic for a while.

There are several things I just want to point out:

I am NOT some prude/anti-sex/girls-have-cooties type of guy. In case you didn't learn it at some point in your life, there's something called "SUBTLETY". There's having a beautiful woman who is proud of her body and likes to show a little cleavage and maybe some tight clothing and than there's just all out breasts threatening to fall out of shirts and skirts that cover the legal bare minimum.

Also, what does that say about Isahella's character? And this whole "Oh, she wears that because it fits with her character" is SUCH B.S.!!! Stop Using it! You and I both know BW dressed up Isabella like that to sell a few more extra copies to those horny losers that "ooo! big boobies!" would appeal to.

Think about it for one damn second. You're really gonna dress up like that when your day to day life takes you in to such dangerous places? Does Isabella really want to walk around like that so she can arouse every single man in viewing distance? You know how much of an inconvenience that would be? Don't you think if that actually happened in the medieval times, a woman would'nt be able to walk past any village without having to fight off several rape attempts and other attempts by men trying to take advantage of her?

Or maybe you guys don't care because you'd rather see a woman with "ooo! Big boobies! Soo hott!!" rather than have a character who has a little bit more self respect than that.

Its a game and its ONE character.

Go outside for a while and relax.

pretty sure this guy wont relax until every girl is covered in a burka.

Ok so I see I'm in the minority here. But is it so awful to expect developes not to fall prey to sexualization in their attempt to reach for aunthenticity? 

I have this same problem with Female TV characters. It frustrates me to no end to see female actors, no matter how poor or homeless the character their playing is, have 100$ haircuts and make-up. Because even hobos have acess to make-up rooms.... <_<

Dude... Its one character... ONE FREAKIN CHARACTER. Whats wrong with you? Merrill is covered in a full outfit(if you don't count ths shoes). Aveline is wearing armor. Bethany is wearing pretty much a normal outfit with chainmail. 

[ReallyRue]

Why is no one as bothered by Varric showing his chest hair to the world? His clothing's neckline plunges far more than Isabella's imo.

[Zkyire]

pixieface wrote...

Wow, this thread really went down the toilet fast.

I understand wanting women in various forms of media who are sensibly dressed. Believe me. Nobody understands that more than an actual woman. But the Dragon Age team is different than the Mass Effect team. Dragon Age has proven to be very, very respectful towards women.

Isabela is one character who reveals skin because that is her character. Confident, sassy, flirty. I am also sure she has some very serious personal flaws that we will discover later on, so even those three adjectives won't describe her completely.

It would be different if every single character were skantily clad or Lady Hawke were forced to skip around in a torn up miniskirt. As it stands, the issue is not with Dragon Age. If you want to discuss the media in general respecting women, then I would take that to the Off Topic forum.

*edit* mistook dalish armour for normal leather armour, nevermind*

So yeah, you're right.

It should be noted that if you look under the OPs display pic, it only shows the icon for ME2. Not DA:Origins/Awakening.

So here we have a guy(I think?) whining about scantily-clad women in games he hasn't played. Had he actually played them he would have known that women in Dragon Age aren't treated as sex objects and are just as covered up as the men are.

Modifié par IEatWhatIPoo, 12 février 2011 - 06:38 .

[Zkyire]

ReallyRue wrote...

Why is no one as bothered by Varric showing his chest hair to the world? His clothing's neckline plunges far more than Isabella's imo.

Pointed it out already. Got a baseball joke. Don't know how that happened

[errant_knight]

ReallyRue wrote...

Why is no one as bothered by Varric showing his chest hair to the world? His clothing's neckline plunges far more than Isabella's imo.

Well, personally, I wish he'd do up his shirt, but that's more of an aesthetic issue than anything else.

[ReallyRue]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

Why is no one as bothered by Varric showing his chest hair to the world? His clothing's neckline plunges far more than Isabella's imo.

Pointed it out already. Got a baseball joke. Don't know how that happened

A baseball joke? How random
Ah well, some things need repeating every few pages or so.

[errant_knight]

Saphara wrote...

what just happened?

Unlike you, who stepped back from the precipice (impressing me, I might add), the OP launched himself over it.

[Saphara]

errant_knight wrote...

Saphara wrote...

what just happened?

Unlike you, who stepped back from the precipice (impressing me, I might add), the OP launched himself over it.

I saw that. I was like...

and yeah. Im the type of person to appologise after ive said something wrong out of irritation. Hyperbole is never best met with more hyperbole

[Giltspur]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

OK sorry guys. I had to go to sleep and couldn't keep up with this topic for a while.

There are several things I just want to point out:

I am NOT some prude/anti-sex/girls-have-cooties type of guy. In case you didn't learn it at some point in your life, there's something called "SUBTLETY". There's having a beautiful woman who is proud of her body and likes to show a little cleavage and maybe some tight clothing and than there's just all out breasts threatening to fall out of shirts and skirts that cover the legal bare minimum.

Also, what does that say about Isahella's character? And this whole "Oh, she wears that because it fits with her character" is SUCH B.S.!!! Stop Using it! You and I both know BW dressed up Isabella like that to sell a few more extra copies to those horny losers that "ooo! big boobies!" would appeal to.

Think about it for one damn second. You're really gonna dress up like that when your day to day life takes you in to such dangerous places? Does Isabella really want to walk around like that so she can arouse every single man in viewing distance? You know how much of an inconvenience that would be? Don't you think if that actually happened in the medieval times, a woman would'nt be able to walk past any village without having to fight off several rape attempts and other attempts by men trying to take advantage of her?

Or maybe you guys don't care because you'd rather see a woman with "ooo! Big boobies! Soo hott!!" rather than have a character who has a little bit more self respect than that.

You're right; it isn't realistic.  But it doesn't mean there's no point in having a character with Isabela's personality presented as she is for artistic reasons.

Yeah, I know--sounds crazy: saying there are artistic justifications for something that's probably driven by marketing but hear me out.

In movies, one-on-one fights are often unrealistic.  You might have two guys engaged in swordfight ballet.  And it's cool and dramatic to watch.  But in a real swordfight, it'll go way faster and involve less dialogue.  Or if it's a fistfight, rather than acting like boxers, maybe one dude goes low, tackles the other guy, locks him down and beats the other guy in the head until he stops moving.  But, dramatically speaking, it's crap to watch.  Physical conflict in a movie is rarely interested in realistically protraying physical conflict: it's usually there to serve the story.

So there's an example of artists ignoring realism for dramatic effect on a topic that isn't weighed down with the baggage of our opinions on sex and sexuality.  Now let's return to the topic at hand.

If Isabela is the sexy bad girl, the artists might be more interested in using clothing (or the lack of it) to show her personality than they are in portraying a fighter's clothing in a medieval setting realistically.  They're ignoring an element of realism, yes.  But that can happen in a work of ficiton and not be some terrible thing.  And the pantslessness of it all needn't (though can) be driven by sexism.

Sometimes the fight scenes in stories are unrealistic; sometimes the clothing is too.

As long as every woman isn't the same thing, I'm not really bothered. When it comes to the portrayal of women in video games I'm more interested in other things than their appearance. Is there a variety of personalities, or are they all the same?  Traditionally there are many male archetypes.  The warrior. The priest.  The professor.  There's more than one way to be a successful man.  Do women have the same luxury in fiction?  They should.  There shouldn't just be an "accurate portrayal of women".  There should be many different kinds of women.  Are they all mere sex objects, or are they more than that?  Are some confident and action-oriented, or are they all helpless and waiting to be saved?  If Bioware scores well on those questions then they deserve credit for that despite the appearance of the characters.  Because at the end of the day we are dealing with fantasy action heroes.  Their appearances are going to be stylized.

Modifié par Giltspur, 12 février 2011 - 06:57 .

[D.Kain]

Been discused already. I agree with the majority. You have a good body why not show it if you want?

I just wish there was the same option for guys. There were no revealing armors for men in DA:O, most likely there will be none in DA2. Very sad. I'm all about equality.

[Saibh]

I'd like to hijack this thread and say:

DAII team--thanks. No one can deny that many, many games the route of uber-sexualization, often with little respect for their audience and treating them all like horny kids even when it doesn't make sense. One of the major things I noticed about DAO was that I felt like I was playing a female character. Not a studio's idea of what a female character should be like, but that I had every opportunity to be as tough or demure or sexy or feminine that I wanted to be. I didn't feel like I had taken backseat to a male fantasy on what women should be like.

It was a really great experience for me, and one of the reasons DAO is my favorite game ever. And I'm really glad that you have so much respect for women--I'm sure a lot of us are glad. So, please, don't take the people who don't notice and appreciate your efforts to heart, when there are many more of us that do.

Modifié par Saibh, 12 février 2011 - 06:54 .

[slimgrin]

ReallyRue wrote...

Why is no one as bothered by Varric showing his chest hair to the world? His clothing's neckline plunges far more than Isabella's imo.

I'm offfended by his chest hair. There's something very immoral about it.

[Amioran]

A_y0ner_ wrote...
I am NOT some prude/anti-sex/girls-have-cooties type of guy. In case you didn't learn it at some point in your life, there's something called "SUBTLETY". There's having a beautiful woman who is proud of her body and likes to show a little cleavage and maybe some tight clothing and than there's just all out breasts threatening to fall out of shirts and skirts that cover the legal bare minimum.

Sorry but you last sentence proved wrong your first one. If you are concerned about a thing and try to cover it with another issue you often fail yourself.

A_y0ner_ wrote...
Also, what does that say about Isahella's character? And this whole "Oh, she wears that because it fits with her character" is SUCH B.S.!!! Stop Using it! You and I both know BW dressed up Isabella like that to sell a few more extra copies to those horny losers that "ooo! big boobies!" would appeal to.

Yes we know it, in fact Bioware needs these tricks to sell games because nobody knows them.

And still, this paragraph proves yet again that you are, indeed, a moralist either if you deny it. If you are concerned that some business' house can use the body of women to make money then you are one of those that actually feed these sort of things, also if you think the contrary. You cannot defeat morality with morality. You are concerned about sex used materially, but it's just these types of concerns that makes these thing have a reality. In other cultures where you see act of sex represented everywhere nobody is scandalized/attracted (as in India), and sex is not used as a catalyst to sell things, just because there's no obsession/repulsion about it; nobody cares, nor for "bad" nor for "good".

What catalyst can a thing have when it is considered without a bias? Morality works both ways, it makes you beware and desire at the same time. The victorian era made ladies hide the legs of tables because they were expressing sexuality, but at the same time it had the most obsession about sex of all the ages.

A_y0ner_ wrote...
Think about it for one damn second. You're really gonna dress up like that when your day to day life takes you in to such dangerous places? Does Isabella really want to walk around like that so she can arouse every single man in viewing distance? 

And think about it: did David really go against Golia nude and with exagerated anatomy to represent virility as in the representation of Michelangelo? Art utilizes stylization to express things, mostly enhancing some aspects that represents the characterization of the character.

The way you see things is filtered by your imagination too and stylized by it itself. The "reality" you speak about exists only in mediocrity.

A_y0ner_ wrote...
Or maybe you guys don't care because you'd rather see a woman with "ooo! Big boobies! Soo hott!!" rather than have a character who has a little bit more self respect than that.

Again you are so concerned with sex that you cannot clearly understand nothing but things having to do with it. Expressing a thing artistically has not always to do with sex, yet you only complain in this case for what it concerns it.

Get over it. You are obsessed and repulsed by sex as 80% of occidental people, even more if catholics.

Modifié par Amioran, 12 février 2011 - 07:34 .

[Quinnzel]

I for one demand MORE oversexualisation of women!...And men...And Dwarves...



Chain mail bikinis for everyone!

[slimgrin]

Saibh wrote...

I'd like to hijack this thread and say:

DAII team--thanks. No one can deny that many, many games the route of uber-sexualization, often with little respect for their audience and treating them all like horny kids even when it doesn't make sense. One of the major things I noticed about DAO was that I felt like I was playing a female character. Not a studio's idea of what a female character should be like, but that I had every opportunity to be as tough or demure or sexy or feminine that I wanted to be. I didn't feel like I had taken backseat to a male fantasy on what women should be like.

It was a really great experience for me, and one of the reasons DAO is my favorite game ever. And I'm really glad that you have so much respect for women--I'm sure a lot of us are glad. So, please, don't take the people who don't notice and appreciate your efforts to heart, when there are many more of us that do.

This is true Saibh and I'm all for sexy, but I would rather companion outfits leaned more toward a practical appearance, like they did for ME1. Bioware's new appraoch puts too much emphasis on style imo. So Isabella's cleavage doesn't bother me, it's just that it's basically a bullseye for a blade.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 février 2011 - 06:59 .

[D.Kain]

Quinnzel wrote...

I for one demand MORE oversexualisation of women!...And men...And Dwarves...

Chain mail bikinis for everyone!

This. Exactly. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 12 février 2011 - 06:59 .

[bloodreaperfx]

Quinnzel wrote...

I for one demand MORE oversexualisation of women!...And men...And Dwarves...

Chain mail bikinis for everyone!

How....could...you...forget..about NUGS?

[Chuvvy]

SSDD.

Modifié par Slidell505, 12 février 2011 - 07:01 .

[ReallyRue]

slimgrin wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

Why is no one as bothered by Varric showing his chest hair to the world? His clothing's neckline plunges far more than Isabella's imo.

I'm offfended by his chest hair. There's something very immoral about it.

That's why I'll have mageHawke burn it off.

[falconlord5]

Just to point this out, Isabela is a pirate. One does not terribly want to wear heavy clothing on the high seas, 'cause one would sink (trust me, I've tried it).