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[My Avatar is a Lizard]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

ByakuShiki wrote...

The majority of gamers are male and I think that most of us prefer having a cute girl as a companion than a huge ugly muscle mountain woman as one.
The female Hawke has to be cool and hot too.
As said before sexiness sells we judge a lot by using our visual sense if all the characters were plain and the landscape were plain I don't think the game would sell well.
Eye candy banzai!

I don't know of the same could be said for DA2. If the fanbase here on BSN is any comparison, there is a mighty even split between women & men, so the design of Lady Hawke needs to fit both their tastes with no preference to one gender over the other.

If Bioware were only interested in the male audience, we'd see a larger chested, skimpier Hawke I imagine. But we haven't. She seems to fit the median.

Just... sayin'...

The fanbase on this forum is Split evenly,
But this fanbase is only about .5% of the total player base if even that.
Most players of dragon age were Definatley male.

1.Again. There aren't numbers to prove this one way or another. I know that Fable, a fantasy RPG made for the PC (and ported to consoles) is dominated very evenly by women.
2As for DA:O, there aren't numbers to prove it either way.
3.But since it is made as a PC game, a Fantasy game, and an RPG... All three categories that are VERY popular among lady gamers.
4.Hell, the power of the female fanbase can be proven just by typing in 'Dragon Age' into Fanfiction.net or deviantart.com. Its pretty overwhelming.

5.I've had this argument before, but to be frank, I've never had any conclusive evidence that suggests most DA players are male. This is almost entirely based on assumption.
6.Perhaps most DA players on console systems are male, but it seems pretty evenly divided on the PC as far as fan reaction seems to provide evidence for.

1.You just said there are no numbers to prove this one way or another then said Fable is dominated evenly by women? 

2.No, But there is common sense that most People who own a ps3/or Xbox 360 are male just by looking at my 100 person friends list about 5 are female. and you could argue plenty of girls own pc's but most sales for DA are made on Ps3/360 version.

3.Too bad there probaly aren't many lady gamers.

4.50 female artist on deviant art proves the dedication of the female fanbase, not their numbers.

5. Not really, it's based on common sense in the gaming industry.

6.I don't think hardcore fans are any indicator of the total player base demographic. Also the majiory of DA is sold on consoles (i think, i'll check for numbers in a second) so If the majiorty of players on consoles DA version are male as you say that would mean the majiorty of the total player base is also likley male.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

koshiee wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

koshiee wrote...

why are merril's breast so big? she is obviously a very petite woman with a very small frame yet she's rocking D cups. Why Bioware? why?

Because she dosen't as bioware already said.

And i know a girl 5Ft  who is a D cup,  not impossible.

yes any girl can get implants

Not implants

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

KIrving wrote...

ByakuShiki wrote...

The majority of gamers are male and I think that most of us prefer having a cute girl as a companion than a huge ugly muscle mountain woman as one.
The female Hawke has to be cool and hot too.

Whenever I see the silly "the majority of gamers are male" argument I smell the fear that the secret clubhouse is being invaded, that there will soon be doilies on the table and the risks of getting girl germs will skyrocket.

As said before sexiness sells we judge a lot by using our visual sense if all the characters were plain and the landscape were plain I don't think the game would sell well.
Eye candy banzai!

Explain how Oblivion sold so well then, even before cosmetic mods were made.  The landscape might be attractive but the people and especially the faces were not.

I have no problem with female gamers i'm simply saying that they aren't the Majiorty or at equal numbers to males as others claim to make their arguement abotu w/e.

[DPB]

koshiee wrote...

why are merril's breast so big? she is obviously a very petite woman with a very small frame yet she's rocking D cups. Why Bioware? why?

No.

[_Aine_]

KIrving wrote...

Whenever I see the silly "the majority of gamers are male" argument I smell the fear that the secret clubhouse is being invaded, that there will soon be doilies on the table and the risks of getting girl germs will skyrocket.

hehe All your Xbox are belong to us (AND we will paint them pink!) 



I think in general for RPG, the potential ( yes just potential as I have seen no way to quantify real numbers by genre yet) is fairly equal.  Sports and FPS games skew numbers in overall data ( I would bet on this, were I a betting sort!)  To be fair a lot of games COULD be very welcoming to female gamers but it is their marketing departments who base where to focus on whom to sell the product to.  

How to appeal to female gamers?  No, it isn't small breasts and no skin exposure on the females and exposed muscular male chests and deep baritone whispers during up against the wall kind of conversations. Rather, I think it is that they are given strong, well rounded characters.  Female and male characters that provide a story.   To be fair, Bioware is much better at this than most.   Women don't want just "girly" games on pink laptops where we feed and breed puppies and mow someones lawn.  lol  They probably *do* want a decent story, a good reason for spending time in a make-believe world though.  It is escapism, and who *couldn't* use that? 

If I could live my life again, I would go into gaming in one form or another. And yes, Isabella would probably still be Isabella, big breasts and high boots and all.  I would have just had a promo done for Lady Hawke too.  

I love gaming period.   This woman likes it too.   

Modifié par shantisands, 12 février 2011 - 11:38 .

[drake heath]

dbankier wrote...

koshiee wrote...

why are merril's breast so big? she is obviously a very petite woman with a very small frame yet she's rocking D cups. Why Bioware? why?

No.

Those look like Bs at the most.

I think Hawke is more sexualized.

[slimgrin]

shantisands wrote...


I love gaming period.   This woman likes it too.   

That is brilliant.

[Urazz]

TJPags wrote...

falconlord5 wrote...

TJPags wrote...


Yes I have, and I agree.

Ever had someone try to stab you?  I'm betting you'd want as much protection as you can get.

I'd be fine with Isabela wearing her usual outfit in down time . . .taverns, at home, etc.  I don't mind it as an outfit in general, I'm not offended or bothered by her body or her outfit.

I just think, if someone's going into a situation where several people will be trying to stick sharp objects into your body, they'd want a little protection.

Pirates in the real world didn't wear very much leather, or any other kind of protection. Mostly 'cause they'd sink. So why should a pirate in this fictional 'verse be any different.

This pirate isn't on a ship anymore.  So she won't sink.

And while I hate to bring this up anymore . . .she DID wear armor when we met her in Origins.

Question is how long has she been stuck on land?  I was under the impression that it wasn't that long from when she shipwrecked and when we meet her in game.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

shantisands wrote...

KIrving wrote...

Whenever I see the silly "the majority of gamers are male" argument I smell the fear that the secret clubhouse is being invaded, that there will soon be doilies on the table and the risks of getting girl germs will skyrocket.

hehe All your XBOX are belong to us (AND we will paint them pink!) 



I think in general for RPG, the potential ( yes just potential as I have seen no way to quantify real numbers by genre yet) is fairly equal.  Sports and FPS games skew numbers in overall data ( I would bet on this, were I a betting sort!)  To be fair a lot of games COULD be very welcoming to female gamers but it is their marketing departments who base where to focus on whom to sell the product to.  

How to appeal to female gamers?  No, it isn't small breasts and no skin exposure on the females and exposed muscular male chests and deep baritone whispers during up against the wall kind of conversations. Rather, I think it is that they are given strong, well rounded characters.  Female and male characters that provide a story.   To be fair, Bioware is much better at this than most.   Women don't want just "girly" games on pink laptops where we feed and breed puppies and mow someones lawn.  lol  They probably *do* want a decent story, a good reason for spending time in a make-believe world though.  It is escapism, and who *couldn't* use that? 

If I could live my life again, I would go into gaming in one form or another. And yes, Isabella would probably still be Isabella, big breasts and high boots and all.  I would have just had a promo done for Lady Hawke too.  

I love gaming period.   This woman likes it too.   

I'm curious to who you  think does it better, and if you think Bioware is unfair to Female gamers at all. and if so why? 

[Sylvianus]

'm so tired too. <_<

Why do women care about so they romances for male characters?

I never understood. Always complaining that women do not romanticize, it's tiring. We've already been crying for Mass Effect 2, was already reduced Bethany's breasts to make them happy, and I guess qu'Aveline was mounted as a truck to make them happy too. And what men want, then? Women with a physical fun, mature and not a child or a colossus for example, count ?

I have also seen that for Merrill and Aveline, are much more successful among girls than boys on the forum yet. We'll see what comes of it in the game.


Anyway, it is useless to say that 50% of women players, is wrong. By cons, yes on this forum, there are many, this forum represents just 1% of the base, which is itself, a vast majority of men. So stop looking for the balance of power, it is useless.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 février 2011 - 11:37 .

[HolyJellyfish]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

ByakuShiki wrote...

The majority of gamers are male and I think that most of us prefer having a cute girl as a companion than a huge ugly muscle mountain woman as one.
The female Hawke has to be cool and hot too.
As said before sexiness sells we judge a lot by using our visual sense if all the characters were plain and the landscape were plain I don't think the game would sell well.
Eye candy banzai!

I don't know of the same could be said for DA2. If the fanbase here on BSN is any comparison, there is a mighty even split between women & men, so the design of Lady Hawke needs to fit both their tastes with no preference to one gender over the other.

If Bioware were only interested in the male audience, we'd see a larger chested, skimpier Hawke I imagine. But we haven't. She seems to fit the median.

Just... sayin'...

The fanbase on this forum is Split evenly,
But this fanbase is only about .5% of the total player base if even that.
Most players of dragon age were Definatley male.

1.Again. There aren't numbers to prove this one way or another. I know that Fable, a fantasy RPG made for the PC (and ported to consoles) is dominated very evenly by women.
2As for DA:O, there aren't numbers to prove it either way.
3.But since it is made as a PC game, a Fantasy game, and an RPG... All three categories that are VERY popular among lady gamers.
4.Hell, the power of the female fanbase can be proven just by typing in 'Dragon Age' into Fanfiction.net or deviantart.com. Its pretty overwhelming.

5.I've had this argument before, but to be frank, I've never had any conclusive evidence that suggests most DA players are male. This is almost entirely based on assumption.
6.Perhaps most DA players on console systems are male, but it seems pretty evenly divided on the PC as far as fan reaction seems to provide evidence for.

1.You just said there are no numbers to prove this one way or another then said Fable is dominated evenly by women? 

2.No, But there is common sense that most People who own a ps3/or Xbox 360 are male just by looking at my 100 person friends list about 5 are female. and you could argue plenty of girls own pc's but most sales for DA are made on Ps3/360 version.

3.Too bad there probaly aren't many lady gamers.

4.50 female artist on deviant art proves the dedication of the female fanbase, not their numbers.

5. Not really, it's based on common sense in the gaming industry.

6.I don't think hardcore fans are any indicator of the total player base demographic. Also the majiory of DA is sold on consoles (i think, i'll check for numbers in a second) so If the majiorty of players on consoles DA version are male as you say that would mean the majiorty of the total player base is also likley male.

1) I said there weren't solid numbers indicating the balance between male / female DA players. Fable however? Fable is a different story. 30% of Fable II players were women, and the number keeps climbing.

2) That's not true. Most sales for DA were made
through PC. There are far more dedicated PC gamers than there are
console gamers. And your person friends list is not a solid argument.
Its incredibly weak. I have a 50 person friends list, and thirty of the
people on there are female. Does this mean there are more women than men
playing xbox 360? Well, according to your
agument, that means yes yes yes it does! Because my friendslist is a
perfect indicator of the gender of console owners.

3) Wait whut? Have you been reading anything I'm saying?

4) If DA's dedicated fanbase consists of a good even amount of women, then I have a feeling that other lady gamers who aren't nearly as dedicated enjoy the game just as much. Point being, the game is equally appealing to men and women. And if the Bioware staff is any indication for the care and treatment they've been placing on Lady Hawke (Including PLAYING her and Demonstrating her on Live Chat), its pretty cemented that MALE INTERESTS do NOT outweigh FEMALE INTERESTS in DA2. Sorry dude, argument just don't fly. As for the advertising (Male hawke on game cover, male hawke on the website, etc.) that isn't Bioware's doing. That's EA. Wrong party, my dear.

5) No. Its based on a narrow minded opinion such as yours.

6) Check the numbers for me. Especially since DA was originally made first and foremost with the PC in mind. I doubt it sold more units on the Xbox 360 + PS3. Perhaps combined it did, maybe, but I doubt it.

I am done with this argument, to be honest. I get very frustrated whenever this conversation comes up where I feel like I have to defend my interests as a lady gamer specifically because OMG the industry is dominated by men so I need to DEAL with it.

No. You deal with this. I maybe a lady gamer, and perhaps there aren't many of us, our numbers ARE increasing and many of us ARE playing games. And if people want to cut down the 45% gamers are ladies argument with their "But then that's also puzzle games which don't count cuz they aren't serious gamers like ME and MY interests are more important since I am a SERIOUS GAMER" I am going to throw a fork against the wall.

DA2 was NOT developed with all male interests. Half the writing team are women. 50% of the game is led by a female character who isn't a bodacious babe.

Like it or not, but half of that game is meant for the ladies. I don't care what you or other people think the male-dominated-demograph number suggest (Because your interests are FAR more important than mine), but I Highly... HIGHLY doubt Bioware added a chiselled chinned sexy Mage and a hot gorgeous male model Elf with Balthier's voice thinking of the straight male demograph.

Guess what. DA2 is not made just for men. Its also made equally for women.

I am done ranting.

[Xivai]

People have sex. They like to **** just about anything. There's your answer.

[koshiee]

dbankier wrote...

koshiee wrote...

why are merril's breast so big? she is obviously a very petite woman with a very small frame yet she's rocking D cups. Why Bioware? why?

No.

 what happened to her breasts? 
i could've sworn i saw a picture where they were comically large. 
anyways DA does not overly sexualize it's female characters when you compare them to the rest of the gaming world. 

[Jademoon121]

The women in DA2 look more feminized than in DAO, but I don't think they're over-sexualized. Aveline and Merrill aren't wearing tight tops that show off their huge tracts of land, and only Isabella is wearing things that are "risque". Personally though, I agree with you. Over-sexualized women(or men) in video games just ruin the realism, which does get annoying VERY fast.

I want my warrior femHawke incased in 120 lbs of wrought steel and iron, not a metal bikini.

[DPB]

koshiee wrote...

 what happened to her breasts? 
i could've sworn i saw a picture where they were comically large.

Nothing. According to David Gaider, all you were seeing before was the result of the viewing angle and Merrill's baggy clothing.

Modifié par dbankier, 12 février 2011 - 11:49 .

[Cuthlan]

koshiee wrote...

dbankier wrote...

koshiee wrote...

why are merril's breast so big? she is obviously a very petite woman with a very small frame yet she's rocking D cups. Why Bioware? why?

No.

 what happened to her breasts? 
i could've sworn i saw a picture where they were comically large. 
anyways DA does not overly sexualize it's female characters when you compare them to the rest of the gaming world. 

The devs said they weren't sure why they looked so big in that picture you are talking about, but assured us they weren't. Which they apparently aren't.

Either the picture was a weird cinematic moment that made them look huge, or was from early in development and they have been reduced since.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

ByakuShiki wrote...

The majority of gamers are male and I think that most of us prefer having a cute girl as a companion than a huge ugly muscle mountain woman as one.
The female Hawke has to be cool and hot too.
As said before sexiness sells we judge a lot by using our visual sense if all the characters were plain and the landscape were plain I don't think the game would sell well.
Eye candy banzai!

I don't know of the same could be said for DA2. If the fanbase here on BSN is any comparison, there is a mighty even split between women & men, so the design of Lady Hawke needs to fit both their tastes with no preference to one gender over the other.

If Bioware were only interested in the male audience, we'd see a larger chested, skimpier Hawke I imagine. But we haven't. She seems to fit the median.

Just... sayin'...

The fanbase on this forum is Split evenly,
But this fanbase is only about .5% of the total player base if even that.
Most players of dragon age were Definatley male.

1.Again. There aren't numbers to prove this one way or another. I know that Fable, a fantasy RPG made for the PC (and ported to consoles) is dominated very evenly by women.
2As for DA:O, there aren't numbers to prove it either way.
3.But since it is made as a PC game, a Fantasy game, and an RPG... All three categories that are VERY popular among lady gamers.
4.Hell, the power of the female fanbase can be proven just by typing in 'Dragon Age' into Fanfiction.net or deviantart.com. Its pretty overwhelming.

5.I've had this argument before, but to be frank, I've never had any conclusive evidence that suggests most DA players are male. This is almost entirely based on assumption.
6.Perhaps most DA players on console systems are male, but it seems pretty evenly divided on the PC as far as fan reaction seems to provide evidence for.

1.You just said there are no numbers to prove this one way or another then said Fable is dominated evenly by women? 

2.No, But there is common sense that most People who own a ps3/or Xbox 360 are male just by looking at my 100 person friends list about 5 are female. and you could argue plenty of girls own pc's but most sales for DA are made on Ps3/360 version.

3.Too bad there probaly aren't many lady gamers.

4.50 female artist on deviant art proves the dedication of the female fanbase, not their numbers.

5. Not really, it's based on common sense in the gaming industry.

6.I don't think hardcore fans are any indicator of the total player base demographic. Also the majiory of DA is sold on consoles (i think, i'll check for numbers in a second) so If the majiorty of players on consoles DA version are male as you say that would mean the majiorty of the total player base is also likley male.

1) I said there weren't solid numbers indicating the balance between male / female DA players. Fable however? Fable is a different story. 30% of Fable II players were women, and the number keeps climbing.

2) That's not true. Most sales for DA were made
through PC. There are far more dedicated PC gamers than there are
console gamers. And your person friends list is not a solid argument.
Its incredibly weak. I have a 50 person friends list, and thirty of the
people on there are female. Does this mean there are more women than men
playing xbox 360? Well, according to your
agument, that means yes yes yes it does! Because my friendslist is a
perfect indicator of the gender of console owners.

3) Wait whut? Have you been reading anything I'm saying?

4) If DA's dedicated fanbase consists of a good even amount of women, then I have a feeling that other lady gamers who aren't nearly as dedicated enjoy the game just as much. Point being, the game is equally appealing to men and women. And if the Bioware staff is any indication for the care and treatment they've been placing on Lady Hawke (Including PLAYING her and Demonstrating her on Live Chat), its pretty cemented that MALE INTERESTS do NOT outweigh FEMALE INTERESTS in DA2. Sorry dude, argument just don't fly. As for the advertising (Male hawke on game cover, male hawke on the website, etc.) that isn't Bioware's doing. That's EA. Wrong party, my dear.

5) No. Its based on a narrow minded opinion such as yours.

6) Check the numbers for me. Especially since DA was originally made first and foremost with the PC in mind. I doubt it sold more units on the Xbox 360 + PS3. Perhaps combined it did, maybe, but I doubt it.

I am done with this argument, to be honest. I get very frustrated whenever this conversation comes up where I feel like I have to defend my interests as a lady gamer specifically because OMG the industry is dominated by men so I need to DEAL with it.

No. You deal with this. I maybe a lady gamer, and perhaps there aren't many of us, our numbers ARE increasing and many of us ARE playing games. And if people want to cut down the 45% gamers are ladies argument with their "But then that's also puzzle games which don't count cuz they aren't serious gamers like ME and MY interests are more important since I am a SERIOUS GAMER" I am going to throw a fork against the wall.

DA2 was NOT developed with all male interests. Half the writing team are women. 50% of the game is led by a female character who isn't a bodacious babe.

Like it or not, but half of that game is meant for the ladies. I don't care what you or other people think the male-dominated-demograph number suggest (Because your interests are FAR more important than mine), but I Highly... HIGHLY doubt Bioware added a chiselled chinned sexy Mage and a hot gorgeous male model Elf with Balthier's voice thinking of the straight male demograph.

Guess what. DA2 is not made just for men. Its also made equally for women.

I am done ranting.

1.30% is not even, And the only source on that who is peter Mony who is know for his exageration of his games.
2. Actually gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php According to this the console version sold .6 Million more than the PC, and DA2 is likley to sell even more on console when compared to PC considering the Market for consoles is much bigger than the pc market. Also are you actually trying to say that there are a Even amount of Female gamers compared to males on the 360? that's just absurd.

3.Many was the wrong word, i should have said there aren't nearly as many female as male gamers.

4.I agree the game is Both appealing to men and women equally, but that dosen't mean as many women have played it as men. and i never said Male intrest outweigh female intrest<_< I simply said you were wrong when you said the amount of male gamers are about equal to Female gamers.  DOn't know where you're bringing this EA/bioware arguement up from.

5.K i'm narrow minded because i disagree with you, Real adult.

6. I'm not attacking your intrest as a lady gamer, i'm simply pointing out that your saying falsehoods to defend your opinion. And i never said you had to deal with it, I'm simply saying the Market (big diffrence from industry) is dominated by men. And i don't think this game is made for ladies or men, I thinks it's made for people who enjoy a good story.

Some ladies on this forum go a little to far when defending there intrest as do some men, and i think you're one of them.

[Virginian]

A_y0ner_ wrote...

Why must every women be overly sexualized???

Why not?

It is fantasy. In fantasy I don't want to see ugly chicks. I want everywoman to be smokin hot with big ****** and preferably no men at all, men will exist I just would never see them.

[The Bard From Hell]

Where I live Isabela would be very well dressed, believe me. Someone there needs to watch some videos about Rio de Janeiro's beachs, or the brazilian Carnival in general. I know it's not like that all year around, but still...

[Blessed Silence]

As a woman and growing up with Lara Croft .. meh .. doens't matter to me anymore.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Black_Tuesday wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
Anyway, it is useless to say that 50% of women players, is wrong. By cons, yes on this forum, there are many, this forum represents just 1% of the base, which is itself, a vast majority of men. So stop looking for the balance of power, it is useless.

1.Is it that games cater more to men because less women play them, or is it that men play more games because most games are heavily dominated by themes that men state they find more appealing than women do, and because  they are specifically marketed at the 18-25 male demographic?

I have nothing against hypersexualized themes in games. It is a fantasy after all. But consider  two pieces of evidence.

2. The fastest growing demographic in America when it comes to  *buying* NEW games is not the male player.  It is women, buying games for their sons, their husbands or their boyfriends.  There is a point of time when any development studio is going to seriously ****** her off if they take the sexualization of women too far. Having attractive female companions- sure. But beyond a point....

3.Every development studio pretty much is talking to the 18-25 male demographic. He has more options to choose from. You can either make it even more appealing to them, or make a game with wider appeal and pull in categories of players who are otherwise neglected by both gaming studios and games. In the case of the latter, balancing male and female interests becomes more important.

1.You can make this arguement of other games, But i would not make it against Dragon age. They treat men and women as equal as you can get without turning it into fable.

2.I don't think there are many games that oversexualize women, the only one i can think of that could possibly annoy women latley is maybe Bayonetta? If anything they are underrepresented in games. I rareley see a female character at all.

3.Actually a fun fact i read somewhere that The main Demographic of male gamers is more lik 28-34 =)

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Double post my bad

Modifié par My Avatar is a Lizard, 13 février 2011 - 12:03 .

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Blessed Silence wrote...

As a woman and growing up with Lara Croft .. meh .. doens't matter to me anymore.

I don't think that's fair to use Laracroft everytime Sexism comes up in videogames, It's one character. And In her latest games she's been far less sexualized.

Below the belt hit IMO