529 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

slimgrin wrote...
 Breasts scare a lot of people on this site. They aren't scary once you get to know them.  

I agree.  but that's just the psychological nature of things.  the more exposure one has to something, the less they're going to fear it.

A good hands-on approach is indeed the surefire cure for breastophobia.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 février 2011 - 12:10 .

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

The Bard From Hell wrote...

Where I live Isabela would be very well dressed, believe me. Someone there needs to watch some videos about Rio de Janeiro's beachs, or the brazilian Carnival in general. I know it's not like that all year around, but still...

I'm from AZ and see far less clothes on some girls  in the winter.

[koshiee]

Blessed Silence wrote...

As a woman and growing up with Lara Croft .. meh .. doens't matter to me anymore.

Bayonnetta was worse

[HolyJellyfish]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
1.30% is not even, And the only source on that who is peter Mony who is know for his exageration of his games.
2. Actually gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php According to this the console version sold .6 Million more than the PC, and DA2 is likley to sell even more on console when compared to PC considering the Market for consoles is much bigger than the pc market. Also are you actually trying to say that there are a Even amount of Female gamers compared to males on the 360? that's just absurd.

3.Many was the wrong word, i should have said there aren't nearly as many female as male gamers.

4.I agree the game is Both appealing to men and women equally, but that dosen't mean as many women have played it as men. and i never said Male intrest outweigh female intrest<_< I simply said you were wrong when you said the amount of male gamers are about equal to Female gamers.  DOn't know where you're bringing this EA/bioware arguement up from.

5.K i'm narrow minded because i disagree with you, Real adult.

6. I'm not attacking your intrest as a lady gamer, i'm simply pointing out that your saying falsehoods to defend your opinion. And i never said you had to deal with it, I'm simply saying the Market (big diffrence from industry) is dominated by men. And i don't think this game is made for ladies or men, I thinks it's made for people who enjoy a good story.

Some ladies on this forum go a little to far when defending there intrest as do some men, and i think you're one of them.

1) I never said even, but I said that the industry is definitely paying even interest to both male and female gamers. To suggest the possibility that there maybe a balance between male and female DA gamers is not a far stretch

2) I don't see any numbers. There isn't a thread. What link are you using?

3) I won't disagree there. But that doesn't mean male gamers interests should outweigh female gamers interests.

4) The argument is coming from the poster I originally responded to, who said something along the lines of how Male gamers like sexy girls and that Hawke should be sexy. I responded by saying 'Yes but wait. There are lady gamers too. If the boards are any indication of the balance between female and male DA gamers, then...' And that is where you interjected.

5) Yeah. I love being an adult.

6) Since when am I saying any falsehoods? I haven't shown incorrect numbers. I haven't said anything of the sort. What I said was there is little data specifying the ratio of male to female DA players, and also said that if the fanbase is any indication, the playing field is pretty comfortably even. neither of us have firm numbers to defend our arguments - as I've already suggested.

I'll keep that opinion filed away in my cabinet. K thnx.

[sevalaricgirl]

One of the reasons I put mage armor on Morrigan (modded of course) but Morrigan wasn't a sl*t. Isabela on the other hand, nothing more to say about her. She was that way in DAO and they stayed true to her character in DA2. Frankly, I don't see taking her with me anywhere. She'd be attempting to do all the guys and girls, maybe more than one at a time. There wasn't one character I didn't like in my party in DAO. I'm sure I'm not going to like Isabela, I didn't like her in DAO. Now I know I'll really like Aveline and I'm sure Merril too. Maybe we'll be able to send Isabela packing. If not, maybe someone will come up with a mod so we can put armor on her. I really have no problem with large breasted women in games. I have a problem with people in my party not wearing armor appropriate for battle. In DAO, I even put armor on Wynne (modded) so she wasn't vulnerable.

[_Aine_]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
I'm curious to who you  think does it better, and if you think Bioware is unfair to Female gamers at all. and if so why? 

You quoted me, so I will answer.  

I can't say who does it "better" because I just don't feel like I can judge that based on anything but personal *preference* .  

Do I think Bioware is unfair to female gamers?  Well, I have *not* played every Bioware game.  But the ones I have played (three series) ?  No, I don't think the games themselves are unfair to women at all, perhaps we are forgotten in some advertising though. In fact, I think the games are a GOOD thing in that they don't seem designed specifically to appeal to one gender or the other.  Bioware even has same-sex relationships in the games, they are pretty balanced all things considered...   The ads though, moreso seem designed for testosterone.  

Example: Take Lara Croft franchise. They come to the idea that they need to make Lara Croft appeal more to female gamers.  They boil it all down to appearance.  The truth is, it IS about appearance but probably not in the way that people think.  YES she was a sex object.  Men like to look at women. Heck, people in general like to look at beautiful things. That is just life.  But *removing* the sexuality is not the best way to appeal to women.  Making Lara Croft relevant BEYOND just appearance would make her more female friendly and, once people get to know Isabella, I would bet money also that she has some inner stuff going on in there  .... but now I digress badly....  My point is that Bioware gives their characters personalities, lives beyond the surfacey aspects.  They are sometimes stereotypes, sure, but then again so are some real people in my life lol  

People have to a pretty good degree been conditioned to blame appearances for a lot. That is my opinion, at the moment anyway. It is a fallacy I think that games need de-sexualized in order to be women-friendly.   Making games appeal to female gamers does NOT have to take away from all the fun that men have always enjoyed in their games which I think is part of the fear.  What it does is adds aspects to some games that haven't necessarily focused on making characters and stories more "whole" is all.  

Marketing sometimes skews who is exposed to that game though.  ( as does platform)

Modifié par shantisands, 13 février 2011 - 12:27 .

[ALVIG824]

in response to the title:



.................why not?

[Darth Vengeant]

I'll tell you why. Throughout history the female body has been looked at as beautiful. It is in more art than any other form. The reason for this is the female body is natures greatest creation of art. Yes, the male body as well, but even more so the female body. If looking at a beautiful woman makes you that uncomfortable then I'd say you have some issues. Instead of complaining about why women are "over sexualized" you should look at it from an artistic stand point. What exactly is beautiful and artistic about a 500 lb woman haggard and unkempt? I do not say that to be shallow, I say it for a simple fact. Artists create things that are attractive to the eye, that is part of the purpose of art. Something that attracts us and draws us in. Exactly how successful do you think a game with middle aged, over weight, butter faced house wives would be? It would be a bomb because it is simply not attractive, on many scales. Video Games, after all, are art.



On another standpoint. I am an Artist and developing Photographer. My favorite medium is black and white photo with the female form. I think their is nothing more artistic and beautiful than the female body. The lines, the waves, the flow, the pale skin. You just have to look with different eyes than the media and society mindwashes people with.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
1.30% is not even, And the only source on that who is peter Mony who is know for his exageration of his games.
2. Actually gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php According to this the console version sold .6 Million more than the PC, and DA2 is likley to sell even more on console when compared to PC considering the Market for consoles is much bigger than the pc market. Also are you actually trying to say that there are a Even amount of Female gamers compared to males on the 360? that's just absurd.

3.Many was the wrong word, i should have said there aren't nearly as many female as male gamers.

4.I agree the game is Both appealing to men and women equally, but that dosen't mean as many women have played it as men. and i never said Male intrest outweigh female intrest<_< I simply said you were wrong when you said the amount of male gamers are about equal to Female gamers.  DOn't know where you're bringing this EA/bioware arguement up from.

5.K i'm narrow minded because i disagree with you, Real adult.

6. I'm not attacking your intrest as a lady gamer, i'm simply pointing out that your saying falsehoods to defend your opinion. And i never said you had to deal with it, I'm simply saying the Market (big diffrence from industry) is dominated by men. And i don't think this game is made for ladies or men, I thinks it's made for people who enjoy a good story.

Some ladies on this forum go a little to far when defending there intrest as do some men, and i think you're one of them.

1) I never said even, but I said that the industry is definitely paying even interest to both male and female gamers. To suggest the possibility that there maybe a balance between male and female DA gamers is not a far stretch

2) I don't see any numbers. There isn't a thread. What link are you using?

3) I won't disagree there. But that doesn't mean male gamers interests should outweigh female gamers interests.

4) The argument is coming from the poster I originally responded to, who said something along the lines of how Male gamers like sexy girls and that Hawke should be sexy. I responded by saying 'Yes but wait. There are lady gamers too. If the boards are any indication of the balance between female and male DA gamers, then...' And that is where you interjected.

5) Yeah. I love being an adult.

6) Since when am I saying any falsehoods? I haven't shown incorrect numbers. I haven't said anything of the sort. What I said was there is little data specifying the ratio of male to female DA players, and also said that if the fanbase is any indication, the playing field is pretty comfortably even. neither of us have firm numbers to defend our arguments - as I've already suggested.

I'll keep that opinion filed away in my cabinet. K thnx.

1. " is dominated very evenly by women. " Yes you did
2. Hold on, i always have problems with links
3.I never said it should
4. Yes And you were wrong, Because this .5% (i doubt even that) is no Real indication of the 2 million people who bought DA
5.No comment
6. I think twice you said falsehoods, First when you said "is dominated very evenly by women" and second when you showed the link of Peter mony saying 30% of his gamers are female, but there was no actually reliable source on this.
And it really is common sense that most gamers who play on consoles are male my a Rather Decent Margin. Whether they are 60% 70% or or 80% IDK.  but i do know they are the majiorty in this market ATM. And since most console gamers are male and most sales on DA were for consoles that =Most DA players are males.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

shantisands wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
I'm curious to who you  think does it better, and if you think Bioware is unfair to Female gamers at all. and if so why? 

You quoted me, so I will answer.  

I can't say who does it "better" because I just don't feel like I can judge that based on anything but personal *preference* .  

Do I think Bioware is unfair to female gamers?  Well, I have *not* played every Bioware game.  But the ones I have played (three series) ?  No, I don't think the games themselves are unfair to women at all, perhaps we are forgotten in some advertising though. In fact, I think the games are a GOOD thing in that they don't seem designed specifically to appeal to one gender or the other.  Bioware even has same-sex relationships in the games, they are pretty balanced all things considered...   The ads though, moreso seem designed for testosterone.  

Example: Take Lara Croft franchise. They come to the idea that they need to make Lara Croft appeal more to female gamers.  They boil it all down to appearance.  The truth is, it IS about appearance but probably not in the way that people think.  YES she was a sex object.  Men like to look at women. Heck, people in general like to look at beautiful things. That is just life.  But *removing* the sexuality is not the best way to appeal to women.  Making Lara Croft relevant BEYOND just appearance would make her more female friendly and, once people get to know Isabella, I would bet money also that she has some inner stuff going on in there  .... but now I digress badly....  My point is that Bioware gives their characters personalities, lives beyond the surfacey aspects.  They are sometimes stereotypes, sure, but then again so are some real people in my life lol  

People have to a pretty good degree been conditioned to blame appearances for a lot. That is my opinion, at the moment anyway. It is a fallacy I think that games need de-sexualized in order to be women-friendly.   Making games appeal to female gamers does NOT have to take away from all the fun that men have always enjoyed in their games which I think is part of the fear.  What it does is adds aspects to some games that haven't necessarily focused on making characters and stories more "whole" is all.  

Marketing sometimes skews who is exposed to that game though.  

(ps. sorry so long - killing time here waiting for someone in RL) 

Thankyou for taking the time for that post seemed like alot of work.

The bit i bolded i absolutley love hearing, and seems like a very mature Opinion on the subject. and i pretty much am with you on everything else you said too.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

imported_beer wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

I'll keep that opinion filed away in my cabinet. K thnx.

I think some people worry appeal to female players can exist ONLY AT THE EXPENSE OF MALE PLAYERS!! I honestly think there can be a compromise. Most sane women are not going to lose their head that Bioware or any other game features a sultry hawt pirate smecksy wench ala Isabela. I think she is hawt, and though I may be checking out her boots more than the other part starting with b- I am not going to grudge male players any eyecandy if such is presented. I am not going to grudge them anything else either- and that is not what it is about.

It is about the *inclusion* of themes that appeal to women. Inclusion doesn't always mean that suddenly because the game is appealing to women too, every single female NPC is going to be completely desmecksualized. 

And i think Bioware Fufills this 100%, don't you? 

[Yrkoon]

 Wildly off topic, but:

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
 most sales on DA were for consoles

I've heard this  claim so. many. times.  Almost as if it's common knowledge.

I've yet to see a scintilla of proof to support this claim however.   And an hour long google search produces exactly Zero breakdown of  the reported 3.2 Million total sales of the game.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 février 2011 - 12:38 .

[sevalaricgirl]

Darth Vengeant wrote...

I'll tell you why. Throughout history the female body has been looked at as beautiful. It is in more art than any other form. The reason for this is the female body is natures greatest creation of art. Yes, the male body as well, but even more so the female body. If looking at a beautiful woman makes you that uncomfortable then I'd say you have some issues. Instead of complaining about why women are "over sexualized" you should look at it from an artistic stand point. What exactly is beautiful and artistic about a 500 lb woman haggard and unkempt? I do not say that to be shallow, I say it for a simple fact. Artists create things that are attractive to the eye, that is part of the purpose of art. Something that attracts us and draws us in. Exactly how successful do you think a game with middle aged, over weight, butter faced house wives would be? It would be a bomb because it is simply not attractive, on many scales. Video Games, after all, are art.

On another standpoint. I am an Artist and developing Photographer. My favorite medium is black and white photo with the female form. I think their is nothing more artistic and beautiful than the female body. The lines, the waves, the flow, the pale skin. You just have to look with different eyes than the media and society mindwashes people with.

You obviously haven't seen art in the 1800s.  Women were round and curvy and non were the 100lb women we see in movies, etc.  For instance: http://en.wikipedia....urkish_Bath.jpg and there are many more.  Your opinion of art may not be other's opinion of art.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Yrkoon wrote...

 Wildly off topic, but:

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
 most sales on DA were for consoles

I've heard this  claim so. many. times.  Almost as if it's common knowledge.

I've yet to see a scintilla of proof to support this claim however.   And an hour long google search produces exactly Zero breakdown of  the reported 3.2 Million total sales of the game.

I posted a link earlier saying of 2.7 million 1.6 million(i think) were sold on consoles, Of course there link for there source is now broken. And i'm sure i'll be able to find new numbers proving this for DA2  once it comes out.

But i'm sure you can realize that alot more people play games on consoles than on PC

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Darth Vengeant wrote...

I'll tell you why. Throughout history the female body has been looked at as beautiful. It is in more art than any other form. The reason for this is the female body is natures greatest creation of art. Yes, the male body as well, but even more so the female body. If looking at a beautiful woman makes you that uncomfortable then I'd say you have some issues. Instead of complaining about why women are "over sexualized" you should look at it from an artistic stand point. What exactly is beautiful and artistic about a 500 lb woman haggard and unkempt? I do not say that to be shallow, I say it for a simple fact. Artists create things that are attractive to the eye, that is part of the purpose of art. Something that attracts us and draws us in. Exactly how successful do you think a game with middle aged, over weight, butter faced house wives would be? It would be a bomb because it is simply not attractive, on many scales. Video Games, after all, are art.

On another standpoint. I am an Artist and developing Photographer. My favorite medium is black and white photo with the female form. I think their is nothing more artistic and beautiful than the female body. The lines, the waves, the flow, the pale skin. You just have to look with different eyes than the media and society mindwashes people with.

You obviously haven't seen art in the 1800s.  Women were round and curvy and non were the 100lb women we see in movies, etc.  For instance: http://en.wikipedia....urkish_Bath.jpg and there are many more.  Your opinion of art may not be other's opinion of art.

That "Art" made me uncomfortable, lol

And i don't think 100 lbs is the male ideal, more like 120 depending on height

[Rawgrim]

Ivy Valentine. Just mentioning her. Check her out, and none of the chics in DA2 will look too overly sexualized.

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Rawgrim wrote...

Ivy Valentine. Just mentioning her. Check her out, and none of the chics in DA2 will look too overly sexualized.

Ew,

I never got why they would put grey hair on that women if they wanted to make her sexy, she looks like my mom

[sevalaricgirl]

"it looks like Dragon Age sold around 1.3 million on the PC (cf 1.3 million on the 360 and 0.6 million on the PS3"

http://gamrconnect.v...d.php?id=100686

These figures were based on the 2.7 million.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 13 février 2011 - 12:52 .

[Yrkoon]

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

 Wildly off topic, but:

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
 most sales on DA were for consoles

I've heard this  claim so. many. times.  Almost as if it's common knowledge.

I've yet to see a scintilla of proof to support this claim however.   And an hour long google search produces exactly Zero breakdown of  the reported 3.2 Million total sales of the game.

I posted a link earlier saying of 2.7 million 1.6 million(i think) were sold on consoles, Of course there link for there source is now broken. And i'm sure i'll be able to find new numbers proving this for DA2  once it comes out.

I'd really love  to see the  breakdown numbers from DA:O's sales, if you don't mind.  It would answer a question I've been asking people  for months and months.


And by the way,  as of February of last year total sales of DA:O were    3.2 million.   If the 1.6 million console units number holds steady, then that would constitute exactly half the sales.  And that would change the argument completely, yes?

[My Avatar is a Lizard]

Yrkoon wrote...

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

 Wildly off topic, but:

My Avatar is a Lizard wrote...
 most sales on DA were for consoles

I've heard this  claim so. many. times.  Almost as if it's common knowledge.

I've yet to see a scintilla of proof to support this claim however.   And an hour long google search produces exactly Zero breakdown of  the reported 3.2 Million total sales of the game.

I posted a link earlier saying of 2.7 million 1.6 million(i think) were sold on consoles, Of course there link for there source is now broken. And i'm sure i'll be able to find new numbers proving this for DA2  once it comes out.

I'd really love  to see the  breakdown numbers from DA:O's sales, if you don't mind.  It would answer a question I've been asking people  for months and months.


And by the way,  as of February of last year total sales of DA:O were    3.2 million.   If the 1.6 million console units number holds steady, then that would constitute exactly half the sales.  And that would change the argument completely, yes?

the 1.6 was for the 2.7

I'll look for a breakdown but it's hard to find for a total and rather than intial release.

[sevalaricgirl]

From my numbers posted above, the 360 and the pc game purchase is neck and neck. Of course there are going to be more console purchases since there is the 360 and PS3 compared to the PC.

[Yrkoon]

It's also hard to find digital download numbers, which are probably not included in the total figure.