76 réponses à ce sujet

[masseffectfan00]

I've seen videos on youtube but just curious what you guys think

[asfaltowy]

Barrier is an insta life saver and triggers always in opposition to medi-gel. Barrier is useful if you play in a risky way

[Biotic_Warlock]

asfaltowy wrote...

Barrier is an insta life saver and triggers always in opposition to medi-gel. Barrier is useful if you play in a risky way

I can vouch for that.
Arc projector also saves my life at times - although due to problems linking my game lag with targetting... it is hard to actually hit with it unless in close(ish) range.
On better machines arc projector would help a lot more.

[JaegerBane]

It's generally regarded as the best bonus shield power, on the insta-cast basis. For an Adept it works quite well as it fills a hole in the Adept's arsenal for an 'oh ****!' button.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I ran Barrier on my Adept. It's good.

[Sailears]

It's good, but the cooldown penalty is horrible.

[Manic Sheep]

It’s decent enough. Cooldown a bit of a killer but that gets better once get cooldown reduction later on.

Even with the cool down issue it is an excellent “OH CRAP!” button and allows you to keep going when you would otherwise be sitting behind cover waiting for shields to come back.

[Sailears]

To be honest, most times when I would get into a situation where I needed to use barrier as a panic button, I'd rather die and replay that part - otherwise it ruins the stylishness for me.

[Bozorgmehr]

Curunen wrote...

To be honest, most times when I would get into a situation where I needed to use barrier as a panic button, I'd rather die and replay that part - otherwise it ruins the stylishness for me.

Barrier can be used before battle, therefore not interfering with cooldown; and although you're right it's bad not being able to use other biotic powers, Barrier is a great panic button and cooldown (with all reduction) is on par with staying behind cover and wait for shield regen.

I prefer Stasis on my Adept for the extra CC and coz it is insta-cast (unlike all the other biotic powers Adepts can use), but without Stasis, Barrier would be my favorite bonus power for the Adept. Dominate is nice, but not CQC friendly and ED is great on Geth missions, but less useful on most others.

I agree Barrier isn't needed when you play the Adept right, but some extra protection before going into battle, a panic button and good looking visual effect are an excellent choice for the already well equiped Adept class IMHO.

[Lycidas]

I have quite a bit of fun with Barrier on my CQC shotgun Adept but for anything else I'd prefer Stasis. The long cooldown and the fact that Barrier does time out are deal breaker for me.

Summarizing I'd say because of the cooldown Barrier kills you as much as it saves you.

[mokponobi]

Barrier is awesome on an adept, however you should be re-spec'ing your adept based on the mission at hand.



General run of the mill don't know whats coming: Barrier or Stasis

Collector or Organics missions: Area Reave

Synthetic Heavy missions: Energy Drain or Barrier



Barrier is definately a great "oh crap, i need to get to cover" bonus power, on insanity it buys you maybe 2 seconds more but thats enough sometimes.

[Sailears]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Curunen wrote...

To be honest, most times when I would get into a situation where I needed to use barrier as a panic button, I'd rather die and replay that part - otherwise it ruins the stylishness for me.

Barrier can be used before battle, therefore not interfering with cooldown; and although you're right it's bad not being able to use other biotic powers, Barrier is a great panic button and cooldown (with all reduction) is on par with staying behind cover and wait for shield regen.

I prefer Stasis on my Adept for the extra CC and coz it is insta-cast (unlike all the other biotic powers Adepts can use), but without Stasis, Barrier would be my favorite bonus power for the Adept. Dominate is nice, but not CQC friendly and ED is great on Geth missions, but less useful on most others.

I agree Barrier isn't needed when you play the Adept right, but some extra protection before going into battle, a panic button and good looking visual effect are an excellent choice for the already well equiped Adept class IMHO.

Hmm, I see your point. But yeah 1 pt stasis kind of trumps it anyway.
Strangely enough I quite like flashbang on an adept - I guess that's due to lack of general grenades. Not the pinnacle of efficiency, but quite fun nonetheless.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

My favorite bonus power for Adepts is Warp Ammo, mostly because I adore trapping enemies in Singularity or Pull and then killing them in two hits or less.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

If you are wanting barrier in order to play an "in your face" adept you would probably be happier playing a Vanguard. If you want to play an adept focussed on being a "caster" there are other bonus powers that would serve you better.

[swn32]

If you're adept picked up sniper rifle training, you'll start to love barrier as it is very effective in reload cancelling into a scoped view while healing any damage u wouldve taken. Since there is no animation, u can fire immediately while with other powers u need to wait for the animation to finish before firing. One of my favourite powers while using the viper with non soldier/infiltrator classes. Soldier and infiltrator have AR and cloak which are better reload cancellers.

Modifié par swn32, 19 février 2011 - 04:30 .

[Whatever42]

As others have said, barrier is great if you're shooting as much or more than warp bombing. Want to snipe or run up and blast things with your shotty then barrier is great. You're not really maximizing the use of your adept abilities, though, but it can still work and you can pretend you're an asari commando (great vid).

[JaegerBane]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

As others have said, barrier is great if you're shooting as much or more than warp bombing. Want to snipe or run up and blast things with your shotty then barrier is great. You're not really maximizing the use of your adept abilities, though, but it can still work and you can pretend you're an asari commando (great vid).

True, but whether or not you're getting the most out of the Adept largely depends on what kind of playstyle you prefer rather than whether you maximise each of their ablities. I personally find the Adept plays far better as a battlemage (see thisisme8 and Bozorgmehr's videos) than a pure caster (see ThatAverageGatsby's videos).

Barrier allows very ME1 Vanguard-ish play (to such an extent that it plays more like a Vanguard than a ME2 Vanguard does) so on that basis, Barrier is one of the best choices. I'd say only Stasis rivals it.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Any class plays better doing a lot of shooting because weapons + ammo are much more powerful than powers. But it gets boring to me playing the classes the same way so I usually focus on powers for the "power" classes and shooting for the soldier classes.



Oh, Gatsby does a lot of shooting in his videos too so I wouldn't not call that "pure caster" play.

[JaegerBane]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Any class plays better doing a lot of shooting because weapons + ammo are much more powerful than powers. But it gets boring to me playing the classes the same way so I usually focus on powers for the "power" classes and shooting for the soldier classes.

I wouldn't put it that strongly. Weapons and ammo generally focus on killing opponents whereas powers tend to cover wider options, like crowd control and disruption - so it's not really surprising firepower kills faster. Whether that constitutes being 'more powerful' depends on what your definition of it is. Even powers designed to directly damage opponents tend to have a secondary effect, like Warp's explosion physics effects or Incineration Blast's fire dancing. If you prefer to play a nuker or a summoner then casters are still a better choice than combat classes.

Oh, Gatsby does a lot of shooting in his videos too so I wouldn't not call that "pure caster" play.

That's neither here nor there - he basically uses a gun to knock down slivers of defences or finish off a damaged opponent, which realistically isn't any different to a DnD wizard using his crossbow or a DA mage using his staff to do the same thing. I can't think of many RPGs where being a pure caster means literally doing nothing but casting.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 19 février 2011 - 07:45 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

JaegerBane wrote...

Oh, Gatsby does a lot of shooting in his videos too so I wouldn't not call that "pure caster" play.

That's neither here nor there - he basically uses a gun to knock down slivers of defences or finish off a damaged opponent, which realistically isn't any different to a DnD wizard using his crossbow or a DA mage using his staff to do the same thing. I can't think of many RPGs where being a pure caster means literally doing nothing but casting.

A very low level wizard might shoot a crossbow but a high level wizard would not. Oh, as a low level DA mage I shot some but not as a high level mage.

Lol, and a DnD wizard or DA mage certainly does not have to shoot protections off the enemy before they can use their spells on them. Heee heeeee.

It is sad that Bioware made powers so much weeaker than shooting and that is why the gun focused classes (soldier, vanguard, and infiltrator) are more popular than the power focused classes. A high level adept should be able to be be just as effective as the gun focused classes without shooting but unfortunately that is not the case.

[Adugan]

I would say get Geth Shield. The +10% damage is nice.

[turian councilor Knockout]

As other say stasis is an excellent crowd control/ Lockdown ablity that can give you extra breathing room in tough fights and i often use reave as well to gain extra heatlh boost while locking down one or several enemies depending on how you want to play.

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 20 février 2011 - 06:09 .

[JaegerBane]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
That's neither here nor there - he basically uses a gun to knock down slivers of defences or finish off a damaged opponent, which realistically isn't any different to a DnD wizard using his crossbow or a DA mage using his staff to do the same thing. I can't think of many RPGs where being a pure caster means literally doing nothing but casting.

A very low level wizard might shoot a crossbow but a high level wizard would not. Oh, as a low level DA mage I shot some but not as a high level mage.

I'm not sure you've understood the point. The point is that it is nothing new for a 'pure caster' class in an RPG to resort to using a conventional weapon for the sake of convenience or expediency rather than religiously sticking to using their powers regardless of the situation. Whether you chose to do this in other games is irrelevant, the concept exists regardless.

Lol, and a DnD wizard or DA mage certainly does not have to shoot protections off the enemy before they can use their spells on them. Heee heeeee.

Not specifically no, but a DnD or DA mage may have to resort to basic stuff he spends his day's worth of spells/runs out of mana, which doesn't happen in ME2. Swings and roundabouts. The bottom line is that in most RPGs pure casters almost always employ some form of backup weapon and use it should the situation call for it. ME2 isn't any different in this regard.

It is sad that Bioware made powers so much weeaker than shooting and that is why the gun focused classes (soldier, vanguard, and infiltrator) are more popular than the power focused classes. A high level adept should be able to be be just as effective as the gun focused classes without shooting but unfortunately that is not the case.

That largely depends on how you play. Bozorgmehr's and thisisme8's videos are quite blatant demonstrations of the level of effectiveness a well-played adept can dish out. Sure, they use firearms as well as biotics, but then again if you refuse to employ guns in the game purely because u think Adepts should never use them then the problem isn't anything to do with the Adept, the problem is your own approach. If the Adept was genuinely intended to play without any weapons at all they wouldn't have been given them. A top level Adept, for instance, by the time of the mid-game, will be sporting 4 seperate weapons including the option to carry a bloomin' personal nuclear missle launcher. Where'd you get the idea that they're supposed to leave weapons alone?

I mean, when was the last RPG you saw where a pure caster managed to outpeform a gish/battlemage build? Spells and combat tend to inherently perform better than just spells in the same way that 2 is always greater than 1. The last game I can think of where a pure caster performed better than a gish was Dungeon Siege 2, where multiclassing didn't work at all.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 20 février 2011 - 10:41 .

[Null_]

Barrier benefits from Biotic upgrades/passive skills(such as lower cooldown etc) while Geth Shield Boost benefits from Tech ones. Thus Barrier is obvious choice for Adept. You get lower cooldown thanks to your class passive.

Also Adept is fine on Veteran and below.
The problem is armor/shields on EVERYTHING on Insanity. If biotics worked on protected targets then it wouldnt be such problem.

Modifié par Null_, 20 février 2011 - 08:51 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

[quote]
[quote]JaegerBane wrote...

A very low level wizard might shoot a crossbow but a high level wizard would not. Oh, as a low level DA mage I shot some but not as a high level mage.
[/quote]

I'm not sure you've understood the point. The point is that it is nothing new for a 'pure caster' class in an RPG to resort to using a conventional weapon for the sake of convenience or expediency rather than religiously sticking to using their powers regardless of the situation. Whether you chose to do this in other games is irrelevant, the concept exists regardless.
[/quote]
[/quote]

YOU are the one who brought up other games and said in DnD and Dragon Age the casters used weapons.

I'm not sure YOU understood the point. In most rpgs a high level caster does not fight with a weapon. 

[quote]
[quote]
Lol, and a DnD wizard or DA mage certainly does not have to shoot protections off the enemy before they can use their spells on them. Heee heeeee.
[/quote]

Not specifically no, but a DnD or DA mage may have to resort to basic stuff he spends his day's worth of spells/runs out of mana, which doesn't happen in ME2. Swings and roundabouts. The bottom line is that in most RPGs pure casters almost always employ some form of backup weapon and use it should the situation call for it. ME2 isn't any different in this regard.
[/quote]

I've don't lots of playthroughs of Dragon Age, three were solo nightmare playthroughs with a mage. I assure you that as a high level caster I never used my staff for fighting.

In most games a high level caster does not NEED a weapon. Sadly that is not the case in Mass Effect where weapons are much more powerful than powers.

Lol, I can't name any game where a high level wizard has to use a crossbow to shoot off protection so he can use his spells.  I'm rather glad you brought up other games because they show the flaw in ME2's design with regard to casters very well.

[quote]
[quote]
It is sad that Bioware made powers so much weeaker than shooting and that is why the gun focused classes (soldier, vanguard, and infiltrator) are more popular than the power focused classes. A high level adept should be able to be be just as effective as the gun focused classes without shooting but unfortunately that is not the case.
[/quote]

That largely depends on how you play.
[/quote]

No it does not. Most of the videos purporting to show the power of biotics are actually demonstrating the power of weapons/ammo powers.

The adept does not need his biotics. He can go through insanity never using a biotic power himself, just shooting. That is just sad.  He is supposed to be the "biotic master", not a gimped soldier.

[quote]

I mean, when was the last RPG you saw where a pure caster managed to outpeform a gish/battlemage build? Spells and combat tend to inherently perform better than just spells in the same way that 2 is always greater than 1. The last game I can think of where a pure caster performed better than a gish was Dungeon Siege 2, where multiclassing didn't work at all.

[/quote]

Pretty much any game. A fighter/mage will never be as powerful a caster as a pure mage with the same experience.  A fighter mage has to split his stats and will have fewer and less powerful spells and use equipment that helps his fighting rather than spell-casting.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 20 février 2011 - 11:53 .