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So who tried an adept with barrier build on insanity and is it any good?


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#26
JaegerBane

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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
YOU are the one who brought up other games and said in DnD and Dragon Age the casters used weapons.


Good observation.

I'm not sure YOU understood the point. In most rpgs a high level caster does not fight with a weapon. 


The point I was making was a very simple one. Pure casters are not defined by a class that never uses weapons. If your own view of this is so narrow that the use of any kind of weapon disallows pure caster status then I'm afraid the problem is one of your own making.

I've don't lots of playthroughs of Dragon Age, three were solo nightmare playthroughs with a mage. I assure you that as a high level caster I never used my staff for fighting.


You seem to be confusing your own preferences with the point at hand. The fact that you chose not to use a weapon in any of your playthroughs does not somehow alter the fact that DA:O mages use staffs as backup.

In most games a high level caster does not NEED a weapon. Sadly that is not the case in Mass Effect where weapons are much more powerful than powers.


You're conflating two different arguments here. I agree weapons pack a greater degree of DPS and flexibility than they do in other RPGs, but that's to be expected - it's a combat sci-fi RPG set in the future. Relegating weapons to the level they are in other RPGs wouldn't work. But this has nothing to do with 'NEEDING' weapons. There's nothing stopping you from playing the game as an Adept without weapons. It'll mean you're playing in a very contrived and slow way, but that's to be expected when you dogmatically reject a large part of the gameplay.

If your assertion is that  you expect to be able to do this with no impact on your playing speed, then I'm afraid you're simply picking holes. There's no good reason to demand this.

Lol, I can't name any game where a high level wizard has to use a crossbow to shoot off protection so he can use his spells.  I'm rather glad you brought up other games because they show the flaw in ME2's design with regard to casters very well.


Was that what I asked?

No it does not. Most of the videos purporting to show the power of biotics are actually demonstrating the power of weapons/ammo powers.


Have you actually watched those videos? I only ask because the vidoes in question generally depict Adepts shooting because it saves time. The actual heavy lifting is still done by powers, particularly with Bozorgmehr's videos.

The adept does not need his biotics. He can go through insanity never using a biotic power himself, just shooting. That is just sad.  He is supposed to be the "biotic master", not a gimped soldier.


This is a circular argument. IF you try to play an Adept without his powers to prove some sort of point, then yes, you're going to be playing a gimped soldier. There's a very simple remedy for this, however: Don't try to play an Adept without their powers.

Pretty much any game. A fighter/mage will never be as powerful a caster as a pure mage with the same experience.  A fighter mage has to split his stats and will have fewer and less powerful spells and use equipment that helps his fighting rather than spell-casting.


You didn't read my post properly. I'm not saying that a battlecaster will be a better caster than a pure caster. I said that a battlecaster will be a more powerful *overall character* than a pure caster. Hence it's not exactly a revelation to realise that an Adept that uses guns as well as biotics is a better character than one who purely uses biotics. This has been a common thing in RPGs for the last few years. Not really sure why it's news to you.

#27
swn32

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Powers have cooldowns. In this game its a shared cooldown. Why would an adept waste time by not shooting? I dont get it. Its not like u have anything else to do during the cooldown phase.

#28
JaegerBane

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swn32 wrote...

Powers have cooldowns. In this game its a shared cooldown. Why would an adept waste time by not shooting? I dont get it. Its not like u have anything else to do during the cooldown phase.


Errr... because if he didn't shoot he'd have to use his powers to kill things? Warp is six seconds a pop whether it was used against a YMIR or an almost-dead merc... the same doesn't go for finishing something off with a pistol...

Modifié par JaegerBane, 21 février 2011 - 01:50 .


#29
swn32

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JaegerBane wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Powers have cooldowns. In this game its a shared cooldown. Why would an adept waste time by not shooting? I dont get it. Its not like u have anything else to do during the cooldown phase.


Errr... because if he didn't shoot he'd have to use his powers to kill things? Warp is six seconds a pop whether it was used against a YMIR or an almost-dead merc... the same doesn't go for finishing something off with a pistol...


Hey i think u misunderstood me. Im actually for shooting while using powers. Simply using powers like a pure caster is reallly slow and pointless IMO.

#30
termokanden

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Combining guns and biotics is definitely the only way to go unless you want to get bored out of your mind. For example, often you can trap someone with defenses in Singularity and then destroy their defenses by shooting. Then they get thrown in the air by the Singularity and you can Warp bomb them. No waiting for cooldowns. Or you can always mix in a Pull Field into anything because the cooldown is ridiculously low with upgrades.

#31
Bozorgmehr

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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

In most rpgs a high level caster does not fight with a weapon. 

Mass Effect isn't a "normal" RPG, it's a hybrid.

In most games a high level caster does not NEED a weapon. Sadly that is not the case in Mass Effect where weapons are much more powerful than powers.

Any class can play ME2 without using either powers or weapons. Weapons are not "much more powerful" than powers - try Adept on Veteran or below for example.

I'm rather glad you brought up other games because they show the flaw in ME2's design with regard to casters very well.

You fail to understand the Mass Effect series isn't a fantasy RPG. It's a shooter combined with rpg-ish powers/abilities. Your argument is like labeling a Ferrari ill-designed coz it lacks a decent trunk or isn't fuel efficient. Ferraris are designed to look cool and to drive fast - ME is designed around a human soldier who can use powers to increase / enhance combat (i.e. shooting).

If you don't like shooting don't play Mass Effect - if you prefer a versatile and practical vehicle don't buy a Ferrari.

#32
swn32

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Bozorgmehr wrote...

You fail to understand the Mass Effect series isn't a fantasy RPG. It's a shooter combined with rpg-ish powers/abilities. Your argument is like labeling a Ferrari ill-designed coz it lacks a decent trunk or isn't fuel efficient. Ferraris are designed to look cool and to drive fast - ME is designed around a human soldier who can use powers to increase / enhance combat (i.e. shooting).

If you don't like shooting don't play Mass Effect - if you prefer a versatile and practical vehicle don't buy a Ferrari.


Exactly my views, thats why i never understand the no guns videos that i keep seeing on youtube. Its just too slow and there is too much cover hugging involved.

#33
Grumpy Old Wizard

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The point I was making was a very simple one. Pure casters are not defined by a class that never uses weapons. If your own view of this is so narrow that the use of any kind of weapon disallows pure caster status then I'm afraid the problem is one of your own making.


Your understanding of the English language is fundamentally flawed.

The word "pure" in no way means a mixture. In fact it means exactly the opposite. A pure caster only casts. A pure caster is not a mixture of casting, shooting, and punching.

pure 
adj. pur·er, pur·est
1. Having a homogeneous or uniform composition; not mixed: pure oxygen.


I've don't lots of playthroughs of Dragon Age, three were solo nightmare playthroughs with a mage. I assure you that as a high level caster I never used my staff for fighting.


You seem to be confusing your own preferences with the point at hand. The fact that you chose not to use a weapon in any of your playthroughs does not somehow alter the fact that DA:O mages use staffs as backup.


You seem to be confusing playing a Dragon Age pure caster with something else. Lyrium potions are quite abundant in Dragon Age and proper spell selection and usage means you can constantly cast. I never felt a need to shoot anything with my staff as a high level caster. I suppose if you suck at spell selection and understanding how to use spells properly you might still shoot as a high level caster.

I'm talking about Nighmare playthroughs, not easy mode. Even solo nightmare play.

I can't think of ANY game where a high level mage needs to run up and wack something with his staff or pull out a crossbow and shoot. Sorry, you bringing in other games has hurt your arguments.

In most games a high level caster does not NEED a weapon. Sadly that is not the case in Mass Effect where weapons are much more powerful than powers.


You're conflating two different arguments here. I agree weapons pack a greater degree of DPS and flexibility than they do in other RPGs, but that's to be expected - it's a combat sci-fi RPG set in the future.


You seem to be the one who is confused. Why does a sci-fi setting in the future imply that casters should depend on guns? 

I've played games with both guns and magic and at no time did my mage need to pull out a gun and shoot.

In fact, I can't think of a DnD game where there was not shooting (bows/crossbows.)  But none of them required a high level mage to shoot. Or to shoot off protections before he could use his spells.

 But this has nothing to do with 'NEEDING' weapons. There's nothing stopping you from playing the game as an Adept without weapons. It'll mean you're playing in a very contrived and slow way, but that's to be expected when you dogmatically reject a large part of the gameplay.


In other words powers are much less powerful than weapons and ammo, which is what I have been saying pretty much since the game came out.

And yeah, it is almost impossible to play an adept in certain areas without shooting no matter how slow you go. Tali's loyalty mission for instance.

I just don't understand why some people say powers should be less effective than guns.

No it does not. Most of the videos purporting to show the power of biotics are actually demonstrating the power of weapons/ammo powers.


Have you actually watched those videos? I only ask because the vidoes in question generally depict Adepts shooting because it saves time. The actual heavy lifting is still done by powers, particularly with Bozorgmehr's videos.


Sure have. And what I've seen is lots and lots of shooting. Shoot something till its almost dead and then you get to use biotic finishing moves. Heck, in some of the videos it is just turning on disrupter ammo and shooting with little power usage at all.

Like I said, an adept can win the game without ever using one of his biotic powers and do so much easier than he can win the game by ever not shooting.  Sad.

You didn't read my post properly. I'm not saying that a battlecaster will be a better caster than a pure caster. I said that a battlecaster will be a more powerful *overall character* than a pure caster. Hence it's not exactly a revelation to realise that an Adept that uses guns as well as biotics is a better character than one who purely uses biotics. This has been a common thing in RPGs for the last few years. Not really sure why it's news to you.


Bull. A high level DnD mage will wipe the floor with a fighter mage of equal experience. A figher mage has to split his stat points and is unable to learn as many spells or as powerful spells or cast spells as effectively as a pure mage.

#34
Kronner

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Mass Effect is not based on DnD, so your point has no basis. Adept is not a fantasy mage either.

Modifié par Kronner, 21 février 2011 - 05:19 .


#35
JaegerBane

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swn32 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Powers have cooldowns. In this game its a shared cooldown. Why would an adept waste time by not shooting? I dont get it. Its not like u have anything else to do during the cooldown phase.


Errr... because if he didn't shoot he'd have to use his powers to kill things? Warp is six seconds a pop whether it was used against a YMIR or an almost-dead merc... the same doesn't go for finishing something off with a pistol...


Hey i think u misunderstood me. Im actually for shooting while using powers. Simply using powers like a pure caster is reallly slow and pointless IMO.


Sorry man, I don't think I got the gist of your post - it sounded like you were saying that shooting has no effect on a player's progress :P

#36
JaegerBane

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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

You seem to be confusing playing a Dragon Age pure caster with something else. Lyrium potions are quite abundant in Dragon Age and proper spell selection and usage means you can constantly cast. I never felt a need to shoot anything with my staff as a high level caster. I suppose if you suck at spell selection and understanding how to use spells properly you might still shoot as a high level caster.


And precisely how am I confusing it with something else? What exactly am I saying that isn't backed up by what's in the game? Has your denial reached such an extent that you just don't acknowledge the fact that staffs exist, that staffs can only be used by mages, that their power is directly related to their Magic score, that there's even a feat in there specifically designed to boost the staffs firepower?

Once again, the fact that you 'felt' you didn't need to use them is totally irrelevant. The fact remains the option to use backup stuff is there in DA:O, just as it is in ME2. Simple sticking your fingers in your ears and frantically boasting about your awesome staffless mage just makes it look like you aren't capable of comprehending the point.

I can't think of ANY game where a high level mage needs to run up and wack something with his staff or pull out a crossbow and shoot.


You've said this twice now despite the fact that no-one's asking you to think of one. No-one is actually arguing that there are any such games that have the specific situation that ME2 puts forward - what you seem to be having major bother understanding is that the specifics of the situation maybe different, but the overall result is something we;ve seen a hundred times before - the idea that a caster may not be able to immediately use their powers to their fullest extent immediately.

Sorry, you bringing in other games has hurt your arguments.


Given that you seem to be having some serious issues distinguishing between game features and your own choices, I'm not sure how you've managed to come to this conclusion.

You seem to be the one who is confused. Why does a sci-fi setting in the future imply that casters should depend on guns? 


Re-read the point, Wizard. I'm getting a little sick having to re-phrase a point because you can't be bothered to read things properly. No-where did I say a sci-fi setting means casters depend on guns. Put the straw men away and focus on what's actually being said.

In other words powers are much less powerful than weapons and ammo, which is what I have been saying pretty much since the game came out.


Ok wizard, since the point seems to be going over your head, I'll reduce it down to most simple level possible.

1 + 1 = 2, but that doesn't mean one 1 is greater than the other. Using both powers and guns makes a character a lot better than one that just focuses on one aspect, but that doesn't mean either aspect is stronger. Guns typically have more DPS than powers, which is to be expected as one fires faster than the other, guns also have far less secondary effects. Crowd controlling using a gun is a lot harder than using a Singularity or Pull, for example.

Even the mighty soldier, with all his firepower, doesn't play particularly better than lighter-firepower classes if he ignores Adrenaline Rush. It's just how the system works, no class is intended to function using purely guns or powers.

And yeah, it is almost impossible to play an adept in certain areas without shooting no matter how slow you go. Tali's loyalty mission for instance.


Then clearly you don't have the level of experience your arrogance or pessimism would imply. There's literally nothing on that mission that is a brick wall for a non-shooting Adept - Even the Collossus. Heavy Warp does 200 Damage to everything, including shields, and Singularity is defence-agnostic, and heavy Throw recharges extremely quickly and can strip most minor shielding in two pulses. All that will happen will be that you don't go through as quick as a player willing to use everything at their disposal.

I just don't understand why some people say powers should be less effective than guns.


And I just don't understand why you keep saying this. You're the only one banging on about it.

Sure have. And what I've seen is lots and lots of shooting. Shoot something till its almost dead and then you get to use biotic finishing moves. Heck, in some of the videos it is just turning on disrupter ammo and shooting with little power usage at all.


Then watch them again, because they aren't just shooting. Seriously man, you're just in denial here. The guys aren't throwing people out of the way, stasis-locking Scions and making warp explosions by shooting.

Like I said, an adept can win the game without ever using one of his biotic powers and do so much easier than he can win the game by ever not shooting.  Sad.


Yeah, you said this last time. I still don't understand what this has to do with powers. All this actually means is that the difficulty of the game isn't as high as you seem to like.

Bull. A high level DnD mage will wipe the floor with a fighter mage of equal experience. A figher mage has to split his stat points and is unable to learn as many spells or as powerful spells or cast spells as effectively as a pure mage.


*sigh* There isn't any point arguing with you wizard, your ignorance of the subject seems terminal. I mean, it's common knowledge that the DnD eldritch knight class not only makes a mage a more stable caster (thanks to free combat casting, armour etc) at the cost of a whopping 1 level of spells, and the Arcane Warrior DA:O prestige class uses exactly the same stat that a pure mage uses to power their combat capabilities.

I suggest, if you really are intent on continuing this, playing at least some of these games that you're banging on about and getting some basic knowledge of the subject. I can't be bothered to explain all this basic stuff to you.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 21 février 2011 - 06:42 .


#37
swn32

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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I just don't understand why some people say powers should be less effective than guns.


Because guns require you to aim

#38
Grumpy Old Wizard

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[quote]

[quote]Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

You seem to be confusing playing a Dragon Age pure caster with something else. Lyrium potions are quite abundant in Dragon Age and proper spell selection and usage means you can constantly cast. I never felt a need to shoot anything with my staff as a high level caster. I suppose if you suck at spell selection and understanding how to use spells properly you might still shoot as a high level caster.
[/quote]

And precisely how am I confusing it with something else? What exactly am I saying that isn't backed up by what's in the game? Has your denial reached such an extent that you just don't acknowledge the fact that staffs exist, that staffs can only be used by mages, that their power is directly related to their Magic score, that there's even a feat in there specifically designed to boost the staffs firepower?

Once again, the fact that you 'felt' you didn't need to use them is totally irrelevant. The fact remains the option to use backup stuff is there in DA:O, just as it is in ME2. Simple sticking your fingers in your ears and frantically boasting about your awesome staffless mage just makes it look like you aren't capable of comprehending the point.
[/quote]

You seem to be unable to comprehend even the most basic of concepts. Simply sticking your fingers in your ears and claiming that in all rpgs high level casters must attack with weapons is foolishness and denial of facts.

Yes casters hold a staff in DA2 (and other rpgs) but high level DA2 mages use the staff only for boosting thier spellpower/regenerating mana, not for shooting. As a high level caster in Nightmare in DA 2 I have never used a staff and it would be ineffective for me to use shoot a with the staff rather than cast a spell. Lyriam potions are in abundance so there is no shortage of mana.

One again, a high level mage holding a staff is not the equivalent of it being necessary for him to run up and wack something with the staff or to shoot something with a staff.

And certainly my mage (of any level) in DA 2 never had to shoot a monster first before he could cast a spell on it. Heeee heeeeeeee.

Your argument is that a high level mage in DA 2 should have to shoot a monster with a bow and arrow until the monster's protection is gone and only then be able to cast spells on it. A rather strange position to try to defend.

[quote]
[quote]
You seem to be the one who is confused. Why does a sci-fi setting in the future imply that casters should depend on guns? 
[/quote]

Re-read the point, Wizard. I'm getting a little sick having to re-phrase a point because you can't be bothered to read things properly. No-where did I say a sci-fi setting means casters depend on guns. Put the straw men away and focus on what's actually being said.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Oh, yes, you implied that in a sci-fi setting casters should NEED guns. I'll quote below. Explain why in a sci-fi setting it is to be expected that guns should do more dps and be more felexible than powers.

You have been defending the position that in ME 2 power focussed classes should in fact need guns. I have been defending the position that power focussed classes should not need guns.  You have admitted that guns are more effective than powers but don't see a problem with that. I do.

[quote]
[quote]
Me:
[quote]
In most games a high level caster does not NEED a weapon. Sadly that is not the case in Mass Effect where weapons are much more powerful than powers.
[/quote]
You:
You're conflating two different arguments here. I agree weapons pack a greater degree of DPS and flexibility than they do in other RPGs, but that's to be expected - it's a combat sci-fi RPG set in the future.
[/quote]
Me:
You seem to be the one who is confused. Why does a sci-fi setting in the future imply that casters should depend on guns? 
[/quote]

[quote]
Ok wizard, since the point seems to be going over your head, I'll reduce it down to most simple level possible.

1 + 1 = 2, but that doesn't mean one 1 is greater than the other. Using both powers and guns makes a character a lot better than one that just focuses on one aspect, but that doesn't mean either aspect is stronger. Guns typically have more DPS than powers, which is to be expected as one fires faster than the other, guns also have far less secondary effects. Crowd controlling using a gun is a lot harder than using a Singularity or Pull, for example.

Even the mighty soldier, with all his firepower, doesn't play particularly better than lighter-firepower classes if he ignores Adrenaline Rush. It's just how the system works, no class is intended to function using purely guns or powers.
[/quote]

Oh, you seem to be pretty simple all right.

A soldier has a lot of crowd control without ever using Adrenaline Rush. He has crowd control through his ammo powers. I think Vanguards are the most powerful class in the game but the pure soldier comes next.

The reason the power classes are less popular than the soldier classes is that the power classes are less powerful than the soldier classes (soldier, Vanguard, Infiltrator.) Weapons are much more powerful than the powers and the soldier classes were designed around weapons.

I think Bioware did this becasue they are  moving away from rpgs into more twitchfest play to try to draw in the more of the console crowd.  Hey, I like twitchfest games too but every game does not have to be a twitchfest. I recently played Dead Space 2 and thouroughly enjoyed it.

I really see no need for differnt classes when all classes are going to be required to shoot. Instead just make a system where you get a certain number of points to pick from the available guns and finishing moves.

[quote]

[quote]
And yeah, it is almost impossible to play an adept in certain areas without shooting no matter how slow you go. Tali's loyalty mission for instance.
[/quote]

Then clearly you don't have the level of experience your arrogance or pessimism would imply. There's literally nothing on that mission that is a brick wall for a non-shooting Adept - Even the Collossus. Heavy Warp does 200 Damage to everything, including shields, and Singularity is defence-agnostic, and heavy Throw recharges extremely quickly and can strip most minor shielding in two pulses. All that will happen will be that you don't go through as quick as a player willing to use everything at their disposal.
[/quote]

Clearly you lack expeience actually playing the game as a power class that focusses on power usage if you claim it is easy to go through every area without shooting. Oh, you also seem to be incapable of reading. I said Tali's loyalty mission, not recruitment mission.

And going through more slowly (however easy or hard it is) shows powers to be less effective than guns.

[quote]
Then watch them again, because they aren't just shooting. Seriously man, you're just in denial here. The guys aren't throwing people out of the way, stasis-locking Scions and making warp explosions by shooting.
[/quote]

I don't need to watch them again. You are in denial in claiming there is not lots and lots of shooting in them. And stasis is not an adept power.

Furthur, the videos that like to claim to show the power  of biotics usually are focusses around areas where there are no shields.

[quote]
*sigh* There isn't any point arguing with you wizard, your ignorance of the subject seems terminal. I mean, it's common knowledge that the DnD eldritch knight class not only makes a mage a more stable caster (thanks to free combat casting, armour etc) at the cost of a whopping 1 level of spells, and the Arcane Warrior DA:O prestige class uses exactly the same stat that a pure mage uses to power their combat capabilities.
[/quote]

It seems activity ceased in your brain long ago.

Haaaa haaaaa haaaaaa!!!!  A pure wizard will wipe the floor with an eldritch knight!!!!  An eldritch knight is a wizard trading casting powerful for a bigger Attack Bonus. From my recollection what you get over the course of ten levels: +5 more BAB, around +10 HP, and a single fighter bonus feat. What you give up for it: Two levels of your spellcasting class feature (one to qualify and one at its first level), wizard bonus feats. I used to play some tabletop DnD too and NWN2 changes some rules so I could be off a little.

I have not played NWN2 in quite some time but I played the heck out it. I'll have to try it out again and see what new prcs  Kaedrin   implemented since I played. I hope he got around to a Master of forms shapeshifter type class.

As an arcane warrior you are limited in the spells you can cast with a weapon in your hand and if you use the tactics of removing your armor before spellcasting you are cheesing.

Arcane warriors use their mana mostly for sustainable spells and fight with weapons. They need a willpower investment. A pure mage does not have to invest a single point in willpower.

#39
kstarler

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Mass Effect is not DnD. It is not Dragon Age. It is not any other RPG. It is Mass Effect. There is no one arguing that you could play an Adept in Mass Effect without firing a weapon, because you couldn't. If anything, Adepts in Mass Effect 2 are MORE caster-like than they were in Mass Effect, because it IS possible to play Mass Effect 2 without ever firing a weapon, even on Insanity. It's a slow, tedious way to play, but it's possible, where as it was not possible in the original game.

Mass Effect is not a pure RPG. It is a hybrid Shooter-RPG. If you don't like that it's a hybrid, then don't play it. And, just so we're clear, Merriam-Webster defines "hybrid" as "something heterogeneous in origin or composition." The developers have never, in the history of Mass Effect, intended that the Adept be played on the hardest difficulty settings without ever firing a weapon.

EDIT: As to the OP, who probably has decided by now whether to use barrier or not, I have found barrier to be very useful in the early game for imported characters. I have tried it evolved to the +100% evolution (is it Improved Barrier?) over several missions post-level 30, and have not found it to be all that useful except as an "Oh crap!" button. Using it pre-emptively is ineffective, or it was for my play style (Aggressive with the GPS).

Modifié par kstarler, 21 février 2011 - 11:10 .


#40
JaegerBane

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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
You seem to be unable to comprehend even the most basic of concepts. Simply sticking your fingers in your ears and claiming that in all rpgs high level casters must attack with weapons is foolishness and denial of facts.


*sigh*

I never once said that, and you damn well know it - someone with even the barest grasp of english would know it. So either you're too stupid to understand the text or you're intentionally misunderstanding it for the sake of continuing the argument, presumably out of a lack of anything better to do with your time. Either way, I can't be bothered reading through your post if you're refusing to do me the same courtesy.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 21 février 2011 - 11:04 .


#41
Lycidas

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swn32 wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I just don't understand why some people say powers should be less effective than guns.


Because guns require you to aim


That point is IMHO not valid. Powers require aiming too (not as much tho) + do have cooldowns.

#42
swn32

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Lycidas wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I just don't understand why some people say powers should be less effective than guns.


Because guns require you to aim


That point is IMHO not valid. Powers require aiming too (not as much tho) + do have cooldowns.


Powers dont require aiming. If you call moving your pointer grossly in the direction of an enemy as aiming, then you are wrong. The cooldowns are what reduces the DPS of the powers, if there wasnt any cooldowns any power based class could faceroll through the game. The powers are good just the way they are. Making them any more stronger would make insanity even more of a joke. Its supposed to be the hardest difficulty in the game. Lately, Ive been playing as adepts and engineer and I know that the powers dont need any more boost. They pack quite a punch just as they are.

Mass effect 2 is also not meant to be played as a pure caster since its a powers- guns hybrid like many people have been saying. Adepts arent suppose to be pure casters. If powers didnt require defense stripping, then there would be no challenge left for adepts, simple warp bombs could clear entire rooms. The classes are fine just the way they are, the only thing that should be improved is squad AI. I hate it when my squad mates standing next to me get hit by rockets and I take damage due to that. Just one of the many things wrong about this games AI.

Modifié par swn32, 22 février 2011 - 11:34 .


#43
Biotic_Warlock

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With barrier on heavy, i managed to get up to 800 shield.

Topped with the power duration/cooldown bonuses and upgrades it was super powerful.



Im thinkin gof next time using geth shield instead.

The 4th tier version is the 100% shield, OR 75% shield with 10% weapon damage bonus.

Which seems to make it different from barrier =)

Minus the double duration.

#44
Lycidas

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swn32 wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I just don't understand why some people say powers should be less effective than guns.


Because guns require you to aim


That point is IMHO not valid. Powers require aiming too (not as much tho) + do have cooldowns.


Powers dont require aiming. If you call moving your pointer grossly in the direction of an enemy as aiming, then you are wrong. The cooldowns are what reduces the DPS of the powers, if there wasnt any cooldowns any power based class could faceroll through the game. The powers are good just the way they are. Making them any more stronger would make insanity even more of a joke. Its supposed to be the hardest difficulty in the game. Lately, Ive been playing as adepts and engineer and I know that the powers dont need any more boost. They pack quite a punch just as they are.

Mass effect 2 is also not meant to be played as a pure caster since its a powers- guns hybrid like many people have been saying. Adepts arent suppose to be pure casters. If powers didnt require defense stripping, then there would be no challenge left for adepts, simple warp bombs could clear entire rooms. The classes are fine just the way they are, the only thing that should be improved is squad AI. I hate it when my squad mates standing next to me get hit by rockets and I take damage due to that. Just one of the many things wrong about this games AI.


By your response to what I said you're implying I want powers to be stronger than they are now. I did not say that. And no I'm not wrong powers require aiming.

#45
swn32

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You have a poor definition of aiming then. Pointing grossly in that direction and pressing a button. Same as blind firing except here u get to see your targets (then again most games let u see ur targets even while blind firing). Either way no precision involved = no aiming required.

Modifié par swn32, 22 février 2011 - 01:38 .


#46
termokanden

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Strange thing to argue about, but I'll bite.



I think it's only fair to say it requires aiming. It doesn't require precise aiming. But if no aiming at all was involved, it would automatically hit its target every time. This is clearly not true.

#47
swn32

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Assisted aim = no aim in my books. Its like selecting targets while the game does the hard work for you (of directing ur attacks at the target).

Modifié par swn32, 22 février 2011 - 01:45 .


#48
termokanden

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I guess we have different books then :)

#49
Lycidas

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termokanden wrote...

Strange thing to argue about, but I'll bite.

I think it's only fair to say it requires aiming. It doesn't require precise aiming. But if no aiming at all was involved, it would automatically hit its target every time. This is clearly not true.


This. The fact that aiming is required does not say anything about the amount of skill required to do it.
Edit:
But lets not get into semantics my initional point was. I don't think powers are less efficient than shooting ATM and I think thats justified by the little aiming there is and cooldowns.

Modifié par Lycidas, 22 février 2011 - 02:10 .


#50
swn32

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Last time i checked the dictionary, aim meant directing something so that on releasing it collides with a target along its path. Its different from selecting a target. With the case of powers, the game aims for you, you are simply selecting a target. So I can say my definition is more accurate according to the dictionary.

Modifié par swn32, 22 février 2011 - 02:02 .