57 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

It's probably a combination of programming reasons, and something someone else here said:

The RustMonster wrote...
But I think as a player I would feel kind of cheated about that. Let's say I get the +1000 Epic Sword of Pointiness and Laser Beams. When I use it in combat I get to see it in all its glory, but as soon as I'm done owning the mooks in front of me it gets replaced by a generic placeholder design.

I know there were a LOT of complaints about the bugs that effected Vigilence's appearance.  Personally, I don't care what the sword looks like, so long as it works the way it's supposed to.  But a lot of people do, and it's a fair issue.  People who do care about how the weapon looks probably share, to some extent, The RustMonster's view: they did the quest, bought the DLC, whatever, to get this awesome weapon with the great textures, they want to see it.

I'd be fine with weapons at the waist, and scabbards.  Weapons could be placed on the hip or back by weapon - bows, 2h weapons, mauls, axe's on the back, longswords, daggers at the hip.  It would add variety, and so individuality, IMO.

Scabbards would be nice, too, IMO, but I don't mind that they're missing.

[Archereon]

crimzontearz wrote...

I still wonder.....why exactly do people equate "fantasy setting" to "let's handwave everything because it's a game"

Seriously...even in a fantasy setting some "verosimilism" associated to the existence of things that do not exist in our world

There's really two attitudes about fantasy realism

A. It's not real life, anything goes.

B. Anything that is not explicitly fantastic (magic) should be assumed to behave as it does in the real world.

[BTCentral]

ViSeirA wrote...

Scabbards at the waist or at the back, doesn't matter where as long as they exist, also bow strings?? I hate to say it but it looks ridiculous firing an arrow without a bow string.

Didn't you hear? The Chantry outlawed bowstrings, due to this all bows are enchanted to fire without one.
I am 100% serious*.


* This may be made up and/or is my personal explanation for it.

Modifié par BTCentral, 13 février 2011 - 04:06 .

[TJPags]

crimzontearz wrote...

I still wonder.....why exactly do people equate "fantasy setting" to "let's handwave everything because it's a game"

Seriously...even in a fantasy setting some "verosimilism" associated to the existence of things that do not exist in our world

IMO, laziness.

Anything you don't want to do accurately, or anything that isn't accurrate that you don't want to defend, you can just wave the magic "it's fantasy, and it's a game!" flag.

I agree, there should be effort to make things as realistic as you can when making a good game, and anything that deviates substantially from what's realistic should be explained in the lore.  Not ignored.

[Noviere]

It doesn't bother me that all the weapons are stored on the characters backs. It's not something I even noticed, to be honest. It's just one of those little things that I have no problem ignoring.

I assume they've chosen to do it this way to avoid all of the clipping issues it would likely cause if weapons were worn on the hip.

I doubt they'd ever release a scabbard DLC. I think they are more focused on providing actual content vs. something that most people won't even notice or care about.

Modifié par Noviere, 13 février 2011 - 04:08 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Noviere wrote...

I doubt they'd ever release a scabbard DLC. I think they are more focused on providing actual content vs. something that most people won't even notice or care about.

...like the Feastday DLC.

[blothulfur]

Wasn't dragon age billed when it first came out as taking a break from the more fantastic rpgs to embrace a more gritty, dark and realistic approach a la a game of thrones.

Actually I remember something about it being set in the dark ages rather than the usual middle ages, but that is obviously not the case.

[upsettingshorts]

blothulfur wrote...

Actually I remember something about it being set in the dark ages rather than the usual middle ages, but that is obviously not the case.

Indeed, it is set in neither.

[Noviere]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

...like the Feastday DLC.

Hah! Too true.



Though I imagine the Feast Day stuff required a lot less effort than redoing animations for every weapon type in the game.

[Albatroz]

IMO, realism is far less important in a game than it being a fun game. Sure, sometimes these things are related, but definitely not in this case. No one is going to be sitting on their couch, controller in hand, going, "YEAH! I GOT A FRICKIN' SCABBARD! THIS THING IS SO AWESOME! GOTY CUZ I GOT A SCABBARD!" Scabbards, and weapons at the waist, are purely cosmetic and add little to the game other than a dash of realism. And that realism is quickly counteracted by the mage shooting lightning out of his ring finger. You may be able to pull your buddy aside and say, "Yo dude, look how realistic this is. I've got a scabbard on my waist for my sword, and my bow has a bowstring on it." You know what your buddy's going to say next. "Why is that guy shooting energy bolts at that monster made out of rocks?"

[PsychoBlonde]

Common User Name wrote...

Samurai would disagree with you.

If you *really* want to be ready fast, you carry your weapon loose in your hand.  And wearing your katana thrust through a sash at your waist was a cultural thing, not one of necessity--iaijutsu was designed starting with that assumption, the assumption wasn't created in order to have more efficient iaijutsu.  A lot of the draws also assume that you're sitting down.

It's similar for guns--you can draw just as fast from a shoulder holster as you can from a hip holster, provided you've practiced.  The pistol instructor I know recommends practicing at least 1000 times a day, every single day.

[DalishRanger]

/Tries to block the seas of "no bowstring" complaints on the old forums from her memory



Idealistically, I would love scabbards and the option of waist-drawn weapons. But most games I've played still go with the "magically hang off the back" tactic due to clipping that I've come to easily ignore it. I just see it as a game mechanic that doesn't reflect how the weapons would actually look if it were real life.



The last game I played where weapons were at the waist and sheathed was Way of the Samurai 3.

[Cutlass Jack]

Noviere wrote...

Though I imagine the Feast Day stuff required a lot less effort than redoing animations for every weapon type in the game.

Would it? I would think the hip animations would work for every hip worn weapon in the game. Its not like they'd need to do every weapon separately.

Oblivion did a perfectly fine job of having both hip and back worn weapons with scabbards and it didn't seem to have an impact on how much they crammed into the rest of the game.

Though its true, a Scabbard DLC would be as timelessly mocked as Oblivion's Horse Armor one.  

[PsychoBlonde]

The RustMonster wrote...
Scabbards, and weapons at the waist, are purely cosmetic and add little to the game other than a dash of realism.

I remember the days when we pulled our weapons out of thin air (or they just stayed equipped in our hands at all times).  I think Gothic was the first game I played where you got the "weapon glued to you" effect, and one-handed melee weapons glued themselves to your hip.  The two handers and your bow/crossbow went across your back, which actually looked pretty cool.  Well, most of the time.  Sometimes the bow would bug and stay in "pulled" shape when you put it over your back, which looked weird let me tell you.

[Noviere]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Would it? I would think the hip animations would work for every hip worn weapon in the game. Its not like they'd need to do every weapon separately.

Oblivion did a perfectly fine job of having both hip and back worn weapons with scabbards and it didn't seem to have an impact on how much they crammed into the rest of the game.

You're probably right. I was just picturing pulling an axe from your hip like you would draw a sword, and having it slice through your thigh. I guess it all depends on how the weapon was drawn though.

Though its true, a Scabbard DLC would be as timelessly mocked as Oblivion's Horse Armor one.  

Bethesda did take a beating for that one. Scabbard DLC could easily de-throne Horse Armor as the most mocked DLC!

[blothulfur]

@Upsettingshorts, yeah it's the usual mish mash of everything from renaissance to ancient rome just with an overarching medieval flavour which in my opinion is a pity i'd like more diverse cultural and societal settings.

As for on the back weapons not clipping my swords were always sticking through my blood dragon armour at various places and a dwarf with a greatsword will be chopping off his foot with every second step so that's really not an excuse, hell shoulder pads on armour would regularly disappear into your body which must be painful.

[crimzontearz]

sorry, there should have been a "would be appreciated" at the end of my previous post.



That said



I meant about "fantasy" things should have some degree of verosimilsm to them.



maybe it has to do with the fact this is a CRPG and therefore certain things are not as "focused" as they are in a P&P setting but I believ e that for a setting to be believable and immersive (yes I am using that dirty word) certain "surreal" or "fictional" things need to blend in with the rest of the "real" aspect of the world sometimes with the appropriate consequences. A sword that is hot enough to cauterize wounds and sear flesh should be contained for instance in a special scabbard not to hurt the wielder when it's not been used...and not just handwawed like "oh it's magic so it does not hurt the owner"



I'm not saying that is a problem in this game I am just saying that would be nice

[Arthur Cousland]

Perhaps they have magnets on their backs that make the weapons stick? That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that you can see space between the weapon and their back, so the weapon is actually "floating" behind the character.



Along with horses and etc., I'd like to see realistic hair in the future, not just for DA3, but any game. It's hard to ignore when there's wind blowing, or people are swimming and their hair doesn't move. They sure must have gone overkill on the hair spray/gel.

[Last Vizard]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Common User Name wrote...

Samurai would disagree with you.

If you *really* want to be ready fast, you carry your weapon loose in your hand.  And wearing your katana thrust through a sash at your waist was a cultural thing, not one of necessity--iaijutsu was designed starting with that assumption, the assumption wasn't created in order to have more efficient iaijutsu.  A lot of the draws also assume that you're sitting down.

It's similar for guns--you can draw just as fast from a shoulder holster as you can from a hip holster, provided you've practiced.  The pistol instructor I know recommends practicing at least 1000 times a day, every single day.

in this case it would be a back holster.... would that take longer?

[Glycerine Queen]

Couple of things--



First, I want to say that my issue is less about scabbards than about only wearing weapons on the back in this floaty, extremely awkward-looking way. DA is an RPG, resources are limited and obviously I'd like more content such as quests, character interactions, etc. over working scabbards, but I think a quick fix like having characters draw swords and daggers from the hip (where they could conceivably have a loop or something to attach the weapon to, as opposed to floating behind their back), would be fine.



I don't need or want the game to be completely realistic...I love the flashier animations, and the controversial static outfits look infinitely better to me than the generic armor you had to equip your party in for DAO, regardless of lack of armor on Isabela and Carver, etc.



I just get pulled out of the game when for example Isabela turns and I see her dagger floating behind her. In a game with really great character models and designs that are meant to be seen in conversational close-ups, I think this matters as a presentational issue. They addressed the buffs during exploration and conversation issue, it would be nice if they addressed this at some point.

[Last Vizard]

The RustMonster wrote...

IMO, realism is far less important in a game than it being a fun game. Sure, sometimes these things are related, but definitely not in this case. No one is going to be sitting on their couch, controller in hand, going, "YEAH! I GOT A FRICKIN' SCABBARD! THIS THING IS SO AWESOME! GOTY CUZ I GOT A SCABBARD!" Scabbards, and weapons at the waist, are purely cosmetic and add little to the game other than a dash of realism. And that realism is quickly counteracted by the mage shooting lightning out of his ring finger. You may be able to pull your buddy aside and say, "Yo dude, look how realistic this is. I've got a scabbard on my waist for my sword, and my bow has a bowstring on it." You know what your buddy's going to say next. "Why is that guy shooting energy bolts at that monster made out of rocks?"

this isn't a deal breaker for people, its just one of the things you make a mental note about how it should be, the same as when you watch a movie or read a novel..... your hypothetical buddy sound like an idiot to me, "because its a game" doesn't cut it.

[Adhin]

It doesn't bug me to much and I don't really want a scabbard per-say. There are plenty of ways to hold a weapon on a person with out it being in a large sheath. 2h swords, for instance, or anything thats held on the back was often more of a smaller cup-like sheath the sword rested in, letting its weight keep it there. Also you have belt-loops that swords with any amount of hilt easily sets into.

Putting scabbards aside I think any 1h weapon should be hip-placed instead of shoulder. Scabbard or any other form of 'holding' thing aside, I prefer the look and feel of it there. 2H stuff of course on the back.

[kane442]

i like it more on the back looks better ....not very realistic as it would be very hard to draw it from a sheath on your back....but for a game it looks better to me

[Odysseus44]

In Drakensang the River of Time, characters wear one-handed weapons at the hip. There is some clipping, but its barely noticeable most of the time. Bows have strings too. I think its a very nice touch. No scabbards, though, and a nice fat floating effect for weapons and shields on the back (If you can live with that, I think you can tolerate some clipping). No quivers either. Still, I like the design of that game a lot. You can freely choose clothing and armor and so give a very distinct look to your characters (I tried to make Ardo look as much as a Landsknecht as possible, it was nice).



As for realism, it's more a question of personal taste. It's perfectly legitimate to want over-the top movements and actions. And in game design, developers have priorities. Me, I prefer as much realism as possible outside of magic. If everything and everyone acts according to the laws of our universe, not only does it help with immersion, but it also makes magic all the more special and fascinating.



Now that's not the road that Dragon age is taking. Fine. I still think I will greatly enjoy it.



[Insert lament about games catering less and less to my personal tastes]